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      03-12-2019, 06:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Gross.
If the new M2 stays the same weight or gets a little lighter, I'd be ok with a beefed up B58. BMW needs an M car that isn't all about straight line acceleration competing with Camaros. It would be nice if the M2 stayed as their still fast, but less powered, more handling focused M car in the lineup.
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      03-12-2019, 06:53 AM   #24
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If the new m2 is bigger in size and heavier in weight i am done buying.

I can feel the weight to much in my M2C. For me it kills the fun.

We need a smaller and nimbler ///M car. If you want a big M car grab an M3, M4, M5. Choices enough if you wish that at bmw.

Choices for a drivers car with low weight and small size is not available at BMW.
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      03-12-2019, 07:09 AM   #25
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That re-enforces my plan do to EURO delivery on the last F87 M2CS

Thanks for the info
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      03-12-2019, 07:12 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post

Choices for a drivers car with low weight and small size is not available at BMW.
Agreed.

981 GTS.

That is all.
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      03-12-2019, 07:55 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
SCOTT26 Already confirmed that at least the new G80 M3 and M4 will still be manufactured in Germany.
That's fine with me as if I get another M car I will be graduating to M3/M4.
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      03-12-2019, 07:57 AM   #28
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Choices for a drivers car with low weight and small size is not available at BMW.
There is one but it it's branded a Toyota.
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      03-12-2019, 09:12 AM   #29
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There is one but it it's branded a Toyota.
Size is good!
But 1550 kg for a 2 seater is a joke!
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      03-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
It must be a sad life to worry about your cars resale value all the time. Seriously, go out and drive. You bought the car for a reason, hopefully that's to have fun and enjoy the "spirit of the road"

Who cares what the next thing is.
It was a joke...
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      03-12-2019, 10:16 AM   #31
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If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
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      03-12-2019, 10:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
My thoughts as well. B58 in the new M2.
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      03-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Gross.
If the new M2 stays the same weight or gets a little lighter, I'd be ok with a beefed up B58. BMW needs an M car that isn't all about straight line acceleration competing with Camaros. It would be nice if the M2 stayed as their still fast, but less powered, more handling focused M car in the lineup.
Camaros turn real good now, you just can't see out of them.
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      03-12-2019, 11:18 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Agreed.

981 GTS.

That is all.
Best car I've ever had - hope to have another one someday.
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      03-12-2019, 11:18 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
Get out of here with your sound logic and reasoning!
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      03-12-2019, 11:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Gross.
If the new M2 stays the same weight or gets a little lighter, I'd be ok with a beefed up B58. BMW needs an M car that isn't all about straight line acceleration competing with Camaros. It would be nice if the M2 stayed as their still fast, but less powered, more handling focused M car in the lineup.
Camaros turn real good now, you just can't see out of them.
True, maybe a bad example. But in general, the Camaro is still a big, heavy car. Let the M3 do battle with it. BMW should keep the M2 as a smaller, more agile car, so as to differentiate it more.
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      03-12-2019, 11:42 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Best car I've ever had - hope to have another one someday.
I had a 1M and loved that thing, also sold it...
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      03-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
I know people who have to work in Germany a couple months a year and they tell me that the work mentality over there is different as night and day. People's mentality over there is like clockwork. It's ingrained into their dna. Would you like to have chocolate made in Switzerland by chocolatiers who've been making chocolate for many generations or would you like to have chocolate made in England by regular people under a guided process? Japanese people have a passion for small electronics. Italians have a passion for design and the way they work with leathers is on a different level. It's a different skillset than that needed to produce a performance automobile. The main challenge to a company is to hire and train good employees efficiently. There is no way to develop a guided process that transfers know-how to an underqualified person 100%. That percentage number can vary and the lower that number is, the higher the profits are. If people keep buying and accepting less then that's the direction things will go.
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      03-12-2019, 12:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
I know people who have to work in Germany a couple months a year and they tell me that the work mentality over there is different as night and day. People's mentality over there is like clockwork. It's ingrained into their dna. Would you like to have chocolate made in Switzerland by chocolatiers who've been making chocolate for many generations or would you like to have chocolate made in England by regular people under a guided process? Japanese people have a passion for small electronics. Italians have a passion for design and the way they work with leathers is on a different level. It's a different skillset than that needed to produce a performance automobile. The main challenge to a company is to hire and train good employees efficiently. There is no way to develop a guided process that transfers know-how to an underqualified person 100%. That percentage number can vary and the lower that number is, the higher the profits are. If people keep buying and accepting less then that's the direction things will go.
I think this is a reasonable viewpoint, and definitely makes sense. I see the same sort of thing in my work life all the time - aka, just because you train someone on something doesn't mean they understand the content in the intended manner.

Practice makes perfect - and I would guess that factories with consistent processes and long term employees have the most imputed knowledge, and therefore produce better results over time.

This is the same basic reason I discarded the "dealer-installed" CF roof idea from the outset. There's no way I would let my car be the guinea pig.


That's not to say that the new locations cannot be successful - but I would expect some sort of learning curve...
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      03-12-2019, 01:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
It's a nice thought, but real world case studies would prove otherwise. Some nations have a history/background in things that cannot be easily replicated just by following strict QA from the parent company. Making good food and being in the construction industry doesn't translate to building a buttoned up car.

I'm sure vehicles coming from Mexico are "fine," but all things equal, I'll take a German made car any day.
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      03-12-2019, 01:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
I know people who have to work in Germany a couple months a year and they tell me that the work mentality over there is different as night and day. People's mentality over there is like clockwork. It's ingrained into their dna. Would you like to have chocolate made in Switzerland by chocolatiers who've been making chocolate for many generations or would you like to have chocolate made in England by regular people under a guided process? Japanese people have a passion for small electronics. Italians have a passion for design and the way they work with leathers is on a different level. It's a different skillset than that needed to produce a performance automobile. The main challenge to a company is to hire and train good employees efficiently. There is no way to develop a guided process that transfers know-how to an underqualified person 100%. That percentage number can vary and the lower that number is, the higher the profits are. If people keep buying and accepting less then that's the direction things will go.
Is this what you're getting at? **JOKE**

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The police are British
The chefs Italian
The mechanics are German
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The police are German
The chefs are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
and it's all organised by the Italians!!

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      03-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
I know people who have to work in Germany a couple months a year and they tell me that the work mentality over there is different as night and day. People's mentality over there is like clockwork. It's ingrained into their dna. Would you like to have chocolate made in Switzerland by chocolatiers who've been making chocolate for many generations or would you like to have chocolate made in England by regular people under a guided process? Japanese people have a passion for small electronics. Italians have a passion for design and the way they work with leathers is on a different level. It's a different skillset than that needed to produce a performance automobile. The main challenge to a company is to hire and train good employees efficiently. There is no way to develop a guided process that transfers know-how to an underqualified person 100%. That percentage number can vary and the lower that number is, the higher the profits are. If people keep buying and accepting less then that's the direction things will go.
Is this what you're getting at? **JOKE**

Heaven & Hell

HEAVEN is where:
The police are British
The chefs Italian
The mechanics are German
The lovers are French
and it's all organised by the Swiss

HELL is where:
The police are German
The chefs are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
and it's all organised by the Italians!!

Sad that we live in a society that requires a qualifier that this is a joke.
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      03-12-2019, 03:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
I think it's like how bagels are better in New York... it has to do with the water.
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      03-12-2019, 04:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
If I may, another vote for keeping politics out of these discussions. That's what the OT forum is for.

As for quality comments - I'll suggest that a very high percentage of our fresh food comes from Mexico, and a lot of the labor already present in our country to prepare our food, assemble our gadgets and build our homes are Mexican or otherwise Hispanic. And there's no reason why a car assembled in the USA or Mexico or Canada is any better or worse than one assembled in Germany or South Africa. Presumably they are all made of the same parts and follow the same requirements and the same QA.
I think it's like how bagels are better in New York... it has to do with the water.
That has to do with ingredients not manpower or region..

It's a automobile we're talking about here, a bunch of the same parts slap together and onto a metal frame.

I believe it's asinine to assume that the vehicle will defer because it's assembled in one place over the other.

Although, because some of us including myself are so vain, the prestige of having a "German" built vehicle would be gone.

So that takes away some of the luster from from the brand and also German products are synonymous with quality built..
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