[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I am not 100 procent certain we get a new m2 with b58 or s58 engine.
The new m5 in 2024 wil go electric.
If this is the case with the new m2 also i am done buying new cars. I keep my Ice engined cars forever!

As the G87 M2 is scheduled to go into production in December 2022, it must be signed off as production-ready some time before. The S58 replaces the the S55. IMHO it's unrealistic to expect BMW to scrap ICE plans for the second generation M2 in such a brief time window. For, to do that, BMW would need more time and funds for R&D. And it would be a gamble that comes still a bit too early for such a high volume BMW M car.

Inevitability: it's like the 'oversized grilles' 4er Coupé that is planned to be officially announced this Wednesday (same goes for the new M4 due to be announced this September): the point of no return has passed - BMW cannot redesign those massive grilles anymore before launch (unlikely that BMW would like to do that). We can expect BMW to try to warm everyone up to this novel grille design with some marketing massage.

See the ruby colored cars: 'start of communication': June 3, 2020 for the 4er Coupé and September 2020 for the new M3/M4:

Originally Posted by Colinv6

This photo shows they will start discussing the new M3/4 as of September this year.



I didn’t take the photo, it was sent to me by a Friend who was visiting the Welt and saw this conference going on through glass windows, they asked him to delete the pics

Why do a “secret” conference in a glass room?

[M2C89]

Does anyone else think that makes the M2C more desirable long-term as it was only in production for 2 model years, and apparently the last (or close to last) of a dying breed?

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by M2C89

Does anyone else think that makes the M2C more desirable long-term as it was only in production for 2 model years, and apparently the last (or close to last) of a dying breed?

No, not really..

Unless they really drop the ball with the G87.

Which I sincerely doubt because they already won me over with RWD, manual, S58; even if it resembles a Pontiac Aztek.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Poochie

even if it resembles a Pontiac Aztek.

Resembling an Aztek, or looking like that pic (especially the rear pic), will keep me away from the G M2. Sure it'll drive well, but part of a car appeal is also its looks. And with the F M2, BMW went all in and made it look fantastic, as good (or better imo) than the M3 and M4, and didnt try to keep the little brother from encroaching on the M3/4. Maybe they will try and maintain some distance now? If so, thats bad news, because sure, you'll attract the young M wannabe buyers, but you'll lose the older buyers who are enthusiasts. And >50% of the M2s I've seen in this area are driven by mid-aged and older men.

[M2Cmtl]

The M2C will be a classic for sure, but it's still a high volume car so it's not like it's going to be rare. If anything it's just going to hurt M4 values.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by M2C89

Does anyone else think that makes the M2C more desirable long-term as it was only in production for 2 model years, and apparently the last (or close to last) of a dying breed?

It’s hard to say but given the progression of the industry, the current M2C will hold a special place at the very least. I watched the change with Porsche going to the 996 from the 993. No one really speculated how significant the 993 was until 2-4 years after it was gone. The 993 was just another mass produced Porsche that didn’t even sell well or anyone care about until it was gone.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Resembling an Aztek, or looking like that pic (especially the rear pic), will keep me away from the G M2. Sure it'll drive well, but part of a car appeal is also its looks. And with the F M2, BMW went all in and made it look fantastic, as good (or better imo) than the M3 and M4, and didnt try to keep the little brother from encroaching on the M3/4. Maybe they will try and maintain some distance now? If so, thats bad news, because sure, you'll attract the young M wannabe buyers, but you'll lose the older buyers who are enthusiasts. And >50% of the M2s I've seen in this area are driven by mid-aged and older men.

I had a real misguided notion of the M2's demographic; it's a relatively cheap (in comparison to other BMWs) car, it's boisterous and sounds kind of juvenile. I never figure it would appeal to middle-age men but I was proven wrong here, so I'm going to reserve judgment on that.

However, as far as the M2C becoming a classic, based on BMW's history, sincerely doubt that would be case with any and all run-of-the-mill BMW but it's still a very appealing, contemporary model, nonetheless.

.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I had a real misguided notion of the M2's demographic; it's a relatively cheap (in comparison to other BMWs) car, it's boisterous and sounds kind of juvenile. I never figure it would appeal to middle-age men but I was proven wrong here, so I'm going to reserve judgment on that.

However, as far as the M2C becoming a classic, based on BMW's history, sincerely doubt that would be case with any and all run-of-the-mill BMW but it's still a very appealing contemporary model, nonetheless.

.

I would love to see the demographic data, my examples are anecdotal. Actually, the M2 that I see most is driven by an old man (like retired 10 years ago type) who still works out of my office building. And when I pass an M2, I tend to look in to see who's driving, and its really a 50/50 ish split

Here is an article on BMW buyer demographics (not model specific). Only surprising thing is the average age of the new BMW buyer....
https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/...-demographics/

[MystroX5]

Meh, I would say the M2C is more of a enthusiast targeted demographic than a price point demographic. The idea that people only buy the top end of their financial capabilities is laughable. Thats not how it really works. I certainly would have no problems buying a M8 if that was what I was looking for. In fact I test drove a M5 and M850i before commenting that both were too big and disconnected. The M2C was recommended I test drive on the same day of the other cars and it was game over (sold).

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

Meh, I would say the M2C is more of a enthusiast targeted demographic than a price point demographic. The idea that people only buy the top end of their financial capabilities is laughable. Thats not how it really works. I certainly would have no problems buying a M8 if that was what I was looking for. In fact I test drove a M5 and M850i before commenting that both were too big and disconnected. The M2C was recommended I test drive on the same day of the other cars and it was game over (sold).

Agreed. I knew what I wanted, and didnt even bother to test the M5/8 etc...

[Artemis]

Oct 31, 2020 - EUR-spec F87 (M2 Competition & M2 CS):

"Shooting stars never stop, even when they reach the top".

Shine on you crazy diamond.

[JggyM2]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Oct 31, 2020 - EUR-spec F87 (M2 Competition & M2 CS):
"Shooting stars never stop, even when they reach the top".
Shine on you crazy diamond.

vid links stopped and unavailable! what did I miss?

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I had a real misguided notion of the M2's demographic; it's a relatively cheap (in comparison to other BMWs) car, it's boisterous and sounds kind of juvenile. I never figure it would appeal to middle-age men but I was proven wrong here, so I'm going to reserve judgment on that.

However, as far as the M2C becoming a classic, based on BMW's history, sincerely doubt that would be case with any and all run-of-the-mill BMW but it's still a very appealing, contemporary model, nonetheless.

.

Hmm Poochie, I believe the M2 pricing for everywhere around the world is a bit too expensive for the younger crowd. I think only in America can the average joe afford to buy the M2.

Take Hong Kong for example - $125,000 USD for the M2C
Singapore - $325,000 USD for the M2C
Australia - $110,000 AUD for the M2C.

Just a little food for thought ...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by JggyM2

vid links stopped and unavailable! what did I miss?

Maybe YouTube restrictions in your region ?

Here's another video expressing the same. Amazing 12 minutes.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Hmm Poochie, I believe the M2 pricing for everywhere around the world is a bit too expensive for the younger crowd. I think only in America can the average joe afford to buy the M2.

Take Hong Kong for example - $125,000 USD for the M2C
Singapore - $325,000 USD for the M2C
Australia - $110,000 AUD for the M2C.

Just a little food for thought ...

I agree, it is expensive, especially for their younger target demographic but I was speaking relatively to other BMWs, it's sort of positioned to be affordable.

Even from the back-in-the-day 318t to the current M2, they always reserved a vehicle, in their catalog, to cater to their younger consumers, sort of like an entry into the brand, which is where the M2 fits, in that totem pole.

For the record, I'm 33 YO, until I could get my time machine up and running..

I just found this old thread that relevant to the trajectory of the subject:

M2 owners' average age? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1258434

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I agree, it is expensive, especially for their younger target demographic but I was speaking relatively to other BMWs, it's sort of positioned to be affordable.

Even from the back-in-the-day 318t to the current M2, they always reserved a vehicle, in their catalog, to cater to their younger consumer, sort of an entry into the brand and that's where the M2 fits, in that totem pole.

For the record, I'm 33 YO, until I could get my time machine up and running..

I just found this old thread that relevant to the trajectory of the subject:

M2 owners' average age? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1258434

Correct, however a more relevant comparison for the 318t should be the 320i or for other regions the 1 series hatchback (F20).

[Davil]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Hmm Poochie, I believe the M2 pricing for everywhere around the world is a bit too expensive for the younger crowd. I think only in America can the average joe afford to buy the M2.

Take Hong Kong for example - $125,000 USD for the M2C
Singapore - $325,000 USD for the M2C
Australia - $110,000 AUD for the M2C.

Just a little food for thought ...

AUD $110k was USD $61k last month.
Today it is USD $75k.
This sucks as 50% of my income is USD.

A note. In Australia the e36 M3 was $140k in the 90s. Same price as a 911 though I much preferred the M3. I guess this is still why I think of Porsches as (an unappealing) side step.

Fast forward to today. You can get an M2C for $110k and it's a much better car than an e36 M3. Meanwhile a 911 is now $320k on road. The M2C is the bargain of the century. As is the CS.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I just found this old thread that relevant to the trajectory of the subject:

M2 owners' average age? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1258434

Who would cross shop an M2 with a barge though? I think even the current M3/4 is a barge and about to morph into a luxury yacht.

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Davil

AUD $110k was USD $61k last month.
Today it is USD $75k.
This sucks as 50% of my income is USD.

A note. In Australia the e36 M3 was $140k in the 90s. Same price as a 911 though I much preferred the M3. I guess this is still why I think of Porsches as (an unappealing) side step.

Fast forward to today. You can get an M2C for $110k and it's a much better car than an e36 M3. Meanwhile a 911 is now $320k on road. The M2C is the bargain of the century. As is the CS.

Valid point, I'd also argue if the poll for the age of owners outside of the U.S I daresay the age group of buyers would be significantly older. Not saying that there won't be any young owners, just majority of them would be an older demographic. The U.S are very lucky to have their BMWs at a super affordable price point.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Davil

Who would cross shop an M2 with a barge though? I think even the current M3/4 is a barge and about to morph into a luxury yacht.

Believe it or not, I actually like all the available options on the M4 and would take it over M2 but the price is up there and it's too much car for my narrow driveway, as silly as that sounds..

I love how it looks though, especially with red Merino leather - land yacht or not..

[M2Cmtl]

The M2 is definitely less expensive relatively speaking in the US and Canada then in the rest of the world but it's still an expensive car. tires, fuel, insurance, repairs are all going to be more expensive then most any sub exotic car.

[JggyM2]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Hmm Poochie, I believe the M2 pricing for everywhere around the world is a bit too expensive for the younger crowd. I think only in America can the average joe afford to buy the M2.

Take Hong Kong for example - $125,000 USD for the M2C
Singapore - $325,000 USD for the M2C
Australia - $110,000 AUD for the M2C.

Just a little food for thought ...

dang Singapore is ferrario lambo territory in pricing in USD. wondering how much those exotics go for?