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      06-10-2020, 05:56 PM   #67
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To really sweeten the deal I'm guessing G8x will be heavy. The M440i is 4000lbs so it seems safe to assume G8x will weigh more than F8x. It will also be around $80k...to drive something that looks like that. Throw in a lovely recycled interior design that's barely been out with the genius livecockpit and it's a really enticing purchase!

No matter what BMW will see a movement in their customer base as many shift to other brands.
The G22 M440i xDrive weighs in at 3,977 lbs. What a fucking pig, and here I thought newer models built off the CLAR platform would be lighter. I'm a fool for having faith in BMW. I mean look at that hideous grille, that says all you need to know.
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      06-10-2020, 06:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i View Post
I wrote something like this before around here but I'll throw it out again. The bottom line is never meet your heroes. I wanted to LOVE me some Porsche. I was let down.

I've driven every generation of 911s going back to the '80s so I have some perspective. The air-cooleds are primitive. Some would say "raw" and "visceral" but I say primitive. The offset pedals don't agree with me either. The 991 generation is very comfortable once inside. Very fast, luxurious, and refined too. Plenty of room and adjustments for comfort. They are just hard for me to get in and out of and I don't like sitting so low to the ground anymore. I guess my sports car days are behind me.

The Cayman/Boxster is the biggest disappointment I've ever experienced in a car that garners so many accolades. Very hard to get in and out of and I'm only 6'0'' 165 lbs. And once in, I could not get comfortable. Way too low and cramped. The pedals are offset (uncomfortably so) like the old air-cooled carreras. The clutch engagement point is way too high and cumbersome too. I love manuals but they are just awful. 911 manuals are much better. All in all, extremely disappointing. 718 versions have good torque and feel fast but the old flat sixers, including the GT4s are disappointing. However, if you love a Honda S2000, the cayman/boxster is close in feel (and frustration) and will be a winner for you. I dislike both equally.

Not trying to bash Porsche as their proven performance is undeniable. They just don't work for me now. 15 years ago a 911 would have been perfect for me. Wish I was making bank back then.
I will add he is right and most non Porsche owners that worship the brand are drunk on Porsche marketing to the point no car will live up to the dream. A lot of 911 owners are driving BMWs now and many some are on the forum and that speaks volumes that not all is right in the land of Stuttgart.

I have owned every generation of 911 since the 930. That is a lot of cars. The new 992 is a shadow of the visceral drivers 911. Porsche has departed from the formula of what the 911 was all about and it’s a modern 928 now with 911 headlights.
The old air-cooled 911 (I still own one) is a antique and significantly smaller than a 991. In fact it’s tiny by comparison. It’s fun and not really fast but it will kill you if you drive it wrong and I respect it for that. That quality alone is what made 911 drivers some of the best sports car drivers of any manufacturer. The risk and feel of everything going on in the car. They essentially neutered today’s car and are living off the legend of the 911 days of glory. If you want a modern Porsche 911, get a 997 and call it a day. I liked it better than the 991 and couldnt make myself buy the new 992. The reason the GT 911’s are so respected is that they feel as close to a older 911 as you can get. The problem is no one drives them and only commodity buyers buy them raising their prices even more.
If you want to play for free, buy a 1983-1989 911 and you can drive it for free and sell it for what you have in it. I lost my azz with my last 3 water-cooled 911s and they were perfect examples of how to option a car.

This is my only 911 left. All my modern cars are BMW’s. Lift the throttle in this 911 when hammering it through a curve and it will kill you.



Last edited by MystroX5; 06-10-2020 at 06:33 PM..
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      06-10-2020, 06:37 PM   #69
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I hear you, I'm shooting for a Porsche, next vehicle..
I think once the M2 is out of my system (not out of my life), its a P car for me too. Need to experience one
Kutta . . . yes you do! . . . and you too Poochie!

///AVM
I would like to venture pass the 60k mark for an automobile but it just feels so wrong and "hood-rich" to have a monthly car payment that's higher than my mortgage..

One sweet day, sometime before the Armageddon..
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      06-10-2020, 06:55 PM   #70
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Gizmo and Mystro

I disagree with both of you . . . the 911 remains an incredible and aspirational sport car . . . but will say there is a reason I currently own a 718 CGTS over a 911 variant. I will just leave it at that regarding the Porsche lineup.

BMW does not produce a chassis that competes with the 718 or 911 chassis . . . if they did, I would have no reason or desire to own a BMW. Once BMW inevitably trashes the M2C design and beefs it up to 4K pounds, not sure I will have any desire to own another BMW?

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      06-10-2020, 07:17 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Gizmo and Mystro

I disagree with both of you . . . the 911 remains an incredible and aspirational sport car . . . but will say there is a reason I currently own a 718 CGTS over a 911 variant. I will just leave it at that regarding the Porsche lineup.

BMW does not produce a chassis that competes with the 718 or 911 chassis . . . if they did, I would have no reason or desire to own a BMW. Once BMW inevitably trashes the M2C design and beefs it up to 4K pounds, not sure I will have any desire to own another BMW?

///AVM
I think the 718 is really where the long time enthusiast moved to. Porsche got very serious with this platform. The PCA members in my chapter that seriously club race their cars almost exclusively moved to this size platform and away from the 911.
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      06-10-2020, 07:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I would like to venture pass the 60k mark for an automobile but it just feels so wrong and "hood-rich" to have a monthly car payment that's higher than my mortgage..

One sweet day, sometime before the Armageddon..
$45-55k will get you a pristine 997S or C4S that is the Cinderella size and has the exhaust note you invision a 911 will have. It also has a great working ac and modern audio system and creature comforts you can live with as a daily driver.
My value system stopped at the 991 C4S. My $125k car is now $165k In 992 form and I don’t like it so I tapped out.
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      06-10-2020, 07:48 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Gizmo and Mystro

I disagree with both of you . . . the 911 remains an incredible and aspirational sport car . . . but will say there is a reason I currently own a 718 CGTS over a 911 variant. I will just leave it at that regarding the Porsche lineup.

BMW does not produce a chassis that competes with the 718 or 911 chassis . . . if they did, I would have no reason or desire to own a BMW. Once BMW inevitably trashes the M2C design and beefs it up to 4K pounds, not sure I will have any desire to own another BMW?

///AVM
I think the 718 is really where the long time enthusiast moved to. Porsche got very serious with this platform. The PCA members in my chapter that seriously club race their cars almost exclusively moved to this size platform and away from the 911.
I love the Boxster/Cayman, only issue (other than the flat-4's) is that I think Porsche is limiting the potential of the 718 on purpose so it doesn't step on the 911's toes.
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      06-10-2020, 07:50 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I would like to venture pass the 60k mark for an automobile but it just feels so wrong and "hood-rich" to have a monthly car payment that's higher than my mortgage..

One sweet day, sometime before the Armageddon..
$45-55k will get you a pristine 997S or C4S that is the Cinderella size and has the exhaust note you invision a 911 will have. It also has a great working ac and modern audio system and creature comforts you can live with as a daily driver.
My value system stopped at the 991 C4S. My $125k car is now $165k In 992 form and I don't like it so I tapped out.
Just curious, but what are your thoughts on a 991.2 Carrera T or S/GTS. I know it feels bigger and obviously number (due to electric steering) over the 997, but I'm considering a used/cpo one in the future.
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      06-10-2020, 08:26 PM   #75
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Well, I saw it coming. . . we have now fully digressed into a typical Porsche forum thread.

///AVM

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      06-10-2020, 08:31 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Gizmo and Mystro

I disagree with both of you . . . the 911 remains an incredible and aspirational sport car . . . but will say there is a reason I currently own a 718 CGTS over a 911 variant. I will just leave it at that regarding the Porsche lineup.

BMW does not produce a chassis that competes with the 718 or 911 chassis . . . if they did, I would have no reason or desire to own a BMW. Once BMW inevitably trashes the M2C design and beefs it up to 4K pounds, not sure I will have any desire to own another BMW?

///AVM
Maybe my long-winded post got lost in translation. The 911 is still an aspirational car and its performance is supercar-like. If I were a younger more flexible man I'd have one. The boxster/cayman though...
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      06-10-2020, 08:38 PM   #77
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This is what happens when you let old man lead the designs
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      06-10-2020, 09:10 PM   #78
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Just curious, but what are your thoughts on a 991.2 Carrera T or S/GTS. I know it feels bigger and obviously number (due to electric steering) over the 997, but I'm considering a used/cpo one in the future.
It’s all what level of road connection your looking for. As a daily driver, it’s safe and will correct the most idiot driving mistakes. So much so it feels like a video game of driving a 911. If that makes any sense. In comparison, the M2C is a lot and I mean a lot more entertaining and fun. That’s my initial feeling coming right out of a 991 C4S to a M2C.
The 991.2 feels numb in comparison to a 997/996 and that may be a better option financially and fun wise as it has depreciated low enough you won’t loose much if you move on. It will check all the 911 boxes most look for without all the stress and technology nightmares a preowned 991/992 will bring. The 997 will just be a much more routine service friendly car.

I didn’t mind so much at first with my C4S but after awhile I got bored as it takes away a lot of the fun I bought a 911 for. You can feel it progressive through the generations that the magic of conveying to the road became synthesized to the point it felt artificial. I guess you have to have experienced the change in real time to appreciate how far it has gone. It’s a fast weapon of speed but at the cost of fun IMO. I would go 997S or get the C4S if you want to drive bat crap crazy in the turns. IMO, going stupid fast is easy these days including in a SUV. It’s the fun and drivers rewards that is becoming extremely rare in sports cars. Once again it’s all what you invision your 911 to be to you.

Last edited by MystroX5; 06-10-2020 at 09:22 PM..
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      06-21-2020, 07:23 AM   #79
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      06-21-2020, 07:35 AM   #80
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Now that we've basically seen what the G82 M4 looks like, how do we feel about it? Is anyone excited? Disgusted? Indifferent? Anyone wanting to trade up for one?
Uhm yeah... I will share my thoughts when I have seen it for real and are allowed to share my opinion.

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      06-21-2020, 01:08 PM   #81
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I did exactly the same. I was thinking about the F82 ZCP prior to the F87 but decided the F82 is just.........gigantic.

In all honesty, I think I'm going Porsche next; I don't see BMW design really heading in the direction I like.
Yup. Thinking hard about 911 in a couple years.
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      06-21-2020, 06:59 PM   #82
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Going to have to disagree with some of the comments made about Porsche here. But there is absolutely nothing in BMW's lineup now that drives like a 981 GT4. (And I am not even talking about the 718 GT4 which is the superior car.)

I love my M2C, but it does not inspire the same level of confidence (not even close) as my previous GT4 did on the twisties. The GT4 is a Ferrari without the big engine, and a superior driver's car to any 911 iteration save the GT class. I have tracked my brother's 991.1 GTS, but it just isn't on the same level as my previous GT4 was.

It's a major reason I have to put coilovers on my M2C as I feel I am going to tip over when cornering.

Also, people continually dismiss the aural pleasure of driving something like a 981 GT4. That car sounded amazing. No M car sounds remotely as good as the GT4 did.

BMW does not make a true sports car. So if one talks about the ingress/egress of a performance car, you need to compare apples to apples.

BMW makes nothing comparable to the Cayman, Corvette, Miata, 570S, S2000 et al, and all these sport cars have severe ingress/egress compared to BMWs. Not to offend my BMW brethren, but BMW M cars are tarted up luxury cars with sport components. They are not bespoke sports cars like the Cayman or 911 chassis.

Anyway, didn't want to change topics from the new M4, but I just had to chime in. Doesn't take away from the fact that I still really enjoy my M2C.

As for the new M4, I do agree with the assessment that we will get used to it...eventually. It requires a paradigm shift in thinking about automobile aesthetics. We are so used to the current BMW grill...for decades it has been essentially the same.

Last edited by csbear; 06-21-2020 at 07:16 PM..
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      06-21-2020, 07:53 PM   #83
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. Lift the throttle in this 911 when hammering it through a curve and it will kill you.]
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