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      12-09-2018, 01:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
I'm wondering if a normal driver can feel the different braking power of BBK as well as the increased unsprung weight
The bigger brakes don't provide more braking force, you would not see a difference in stopping distance on the street. Both brakes are limited by tire traction.

Bigger brakes only shine over smaller brakes when they are under consistent use, it's about heat management and the ability to resist brake fade and remain consistent. Big brakes have bigger rotors and more pistons applying pressure (generating fiction heat) more evenly across the bigger rotor surfaces. Bigger rotor surface can take more heat and dissipate heat more efficiently.

If 2 M2Cs went to the track, 1 with the blue brakes, 1 with the silver, the braking ability might be the same for the first few laps, but at some point the blue brakes will start to fade as they get hot, brake pedal will go spongey and the brakes will no longer consistently slow the car at the same rate, the tire traction is no longer the limiting stopping distance factor. As they cool down the braking capability quickly returns. The silver brakes will also fade but it will take longer (more laps) the average none pro-racer might never reach the higher threshold.

If you like to go to the track it's a pretty big deal that they put these brakes on the M2. If you don't go to the track and you have the ability to spec the car with the blue brakes you should to avoid the unsprung weight penalty.
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      12-09-2018, 01:21 PM   #90
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Even though his review was positive it lacked the same enthusiasm as the one he did for the original M2
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      12-09-2018, 01:24 PM   #91
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One thing people are forgetting about is that there is 50kg/110lbs weight difference between two models only if you spec the M2C with 788M wheels and silver BBK. In many markets, you can spec the car with 437m wheels and standard blue brakes. In other words, all this extra weight many people are bitching about here is minimal on comparably equipped cars.

If you are in the US then sell your silver brakes and 788M wheels. Not only you'll save significant unsprung weight but also make profit if you go with 437M wheels and blue brakes (almost brand new blue brakes sell for ~$1K-1.5K as a set on classifieds and I sold my silver brakes for $5K). The look of the wheels are totally subjective. Guess who bought my 788M wheels? An OG M2 owner!

I also don't understand the "OG M2 was cheaper" BS. Go try to retrofit the seats, mirrors, CF strut brace, 2NH brakes and all the extra cooling that is required to keep your "piece of art" N55 out of heat soak or limp mode. Let me know if you can do all these for less than $5K. The MSRP price difference between the OG M2 and M2C is worth for the S55 alone. The extra power, extra cooling, CF strut brace, larger brakes, seats, M buttons etc are just the bonus. Yes, N55 sounds great and that's pretty much the only thing it does better than S55. I don't see the weight as a problem because it's pretty easy to shave off a lot of weight off of M2C. Mine is already at 3490lbs with full tank and I'll drop another ~30lbs with an exhaust. Considering how easy it is to reduce weight in M2C and upgrades that it comes with (mainly the S55), I think it's a bargain at $60K.
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      12-09-2018, 01:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
What a great way to destroy a perfectly good set of rubber.

Chris Harris is always amazingly fun to watch.

VV not so much.
It's a great car to slay tires in :-)
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      12-09-2018, 01:27 PM   #93
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He got the steering right. He didn't seem too excited about the car...a lesser spirited review by Chris Harris standards.

Harris, BTW, owns a 1M himself.
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      12-09-2018, 01:41 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevM2 View Post
Even though his review was positive it lacked the same enthusiasm as the one he did for the original M2
Thank you!

I thought it was only me...but, to be very honest here gentlemen....this review was just sooo flat!

Does in no way make me feel like I need to get to a dealership and test drive one (if I could) or place an order???

I dunno? Just seems very uninspiring
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      12-09-2018, 01:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
One thing people are forgetting about is that there is 50kg/110lbs weight difference between two models only if you spec the M2C with 788M wheels and silver BBK. In many markets, you can spec the car with 437m wheels and standard blue brakes. In other words, all this extra weight many people are bitching about here is minimal on comparably equipped cars.

If you are in the US then sell your silver brakes and 788M wheels. Not only you'll save significant unsprung weight but also make profit if you go with 437M wheels and blue brakes (almost brand new blue brakes sell for ~$1K-1.5K as a set on classifieds and I sold my silver brakes for $5K). The look of the wheels are totally subjective. Guess who bought my 788M wheels? An OG M2 owner!
That sounds painful...whos going to buy a new car to strip the parts off it and replace? What about the cost of labor? What do you do when the car is down and can't be driven?

Quote:
I also don't understand the "OG M2 was cheaper" BS. Go try to retrofit the seats, mirrors, CF strut brace, 2NH brakes and all the extra cooling that is required to keep your "piece of art" N55 out of heat soak or limp mode. Let me know if you can do all these for less than $5K. The MSRP price difference between the OG M2 and M2C is worth for the S55 alone. The extra power, extra cooling, CF strut brace, larger brakes, seats, M buttons etc are just the bonus. Yes, N55 sounds great and that's pretty much the only thing it does better than S55. I don't see the weight as a problem because it's pretty easy to shave off a lot of weight off of M2C. Mine is already at 3490lbs with full tank and I'll drop another ~30lbs with an exhaust. Considering how easy it is to reduce weight in M2C and upgrades that it comes with (mainly the S55), I think it's a bargain at $60K.
Seats sure...but what is this N55 heat soak? Did multiple 20 minute sessions at Buttonwillow with stock cooling (in 100* weather...no issues)
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      12-09-2018, 01:46 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
What a great way to destroy a perfectly good set of rubber.

Chris Harris is always amazingly fun to watch.

VV not so much.
It's a great car to slay tires in :-)


I'd consider changing my user name to "Tire-Slayer" if I were you lol
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      12-09-2018, 01:47 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
I'm wondering if a normal driver can feel the different braking power of BBK as well as the increased unsprung weight
Bigger brakes only shine over smaller brakes when they are under consistent use, it's about heat management and the ability to resist brake fade and remain consistent
Exactly!

The fact that they still use the smaller blue brakes set up for the current M4 ZHP and didn't feel the need to upgrade them, tells me that they are very capable and sufficient. I believe they only become an issue after massive track abuse.

The expectation is that M2C with its shorter wheels base will be more likely opted as a track vehicle, hence the bigger brake option.

Reminds of when the 135i now came out; it had fancy 6 piston Brembos but the more expensive E92 335i, with the same exact motor, had standard BMW stoppers..

BMW knew which one of their models was most likely going to be tossed around..
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      12-09-2018, 02:15 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
The bigger brakes don't provide more braking force, you would not see a difference in stopping distance on the street. Both brakes are limited by tire traction.

Bigger brakes only shine over smaller brakes when they are under consistent use, it's about heat management and the ability to resist brake fade and remain consistent. Big brakes have bigger rotors and more pistons applying pressure (generating fiction heat) more evenly across the bigger rotor surfaces. Bigger rotor surface can take more heat and dissipate heat more efficiently.

If 2 M2Cs went to the track, 1 with the blue brakes, 1 with the silver, the braking ability might be the same for the first few laps, but at some point the blue brakes will start to fade as they get hot, brake pedal will go spongey and the brakes will no longer consistently slow the car at the same rate, the tire traction is no longer the limiting stopping distance factor. As they cool down the braking capability quickly returns. The silver brakes will also fade but it will take longer (more laps) the average none pro-racer might never reach the higher threshold.

If you like to go to the track it's a pretty big deal that they put these brakes on the M2. If you don't go to the track and you have the ability to spec the car with the blue brakes you should to avoid the unsprung weight penalty.
I totally agree with you from the first to the last word
But for an intensive track use, you need a specific set of pads, brake fluid and tubes even with BBK
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      12-09-2018, 02:37 PM   #99
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Always funny to see how what Chris Harris has to say is gospel, he is a great driver and great entertainer but all of us should take whatever a journalist/entertainer says with a fairly large grain of salt. How many M2/M2C owners go to the track? How many can and would drive like he does? I track my M2 regularly but still with regular track usage it still represents a small part of what I need from my car and I'm sorry how a car drifts is really not an important metric for a performance car. Having said that I can't wait to get a taste of the M2C on track and on the road to compare. I doubt I would trade my current car in for an M2C but it will likely be on my shopping list in a few years when there are some low mileage used cars available.
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      12-09-2018, 02:39 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
The bigger brakes don't provide more braking force, you would not see a difference in stopping distance on the street. Both brakes are limited by tire traction.

Bigger brakes only shine over smaller brakes when they are under consistent use, it's about heat management and the ability to resist brake fade and remain consistent. Big brakes have bigger rotors and more pistons applying pressure (generating fiction heat) more evenly across the bigger rotor surfaces. Bigger rotor surface can take more heat and dissipate heat more efficiently.

If 2 M2Cs went to the track, 1 with the blue brakes, 1 with the silver, the braking ability might be the same for the first few laps, but at some point the blue brakes will start to fade as they get hot, brake pedal will go spongey and the brakes will no longer consistently slow the car at the same rate, the tire traction is no longer the limiting stopping distance factor. As they cool down the braking capability quickly returns. The silver brakes will also fade but it will take longer (more laps) the average none pro-racer might never reach the higher threshold.

If you like to go to the track it's a pretty big deal that they put these brakes on the M2. If you don't go to the track and you have the ability to spec the car with the blue brakes you should to avoid the unsprung weight penalty.
I totally agree with you from the first to the last word
But for an intensive track use, you need a specific set of pads, brake fluid and tubes even with BBK
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      12-09-2018, 02:52 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
One thing people are forgetting about is that there is 50kg/110lbs weight difference between two models only if you spec the M2C with 788M wheels and silver BBK. In many markets, you can spec the car with 437m wheels and standard blue brakes. In other words, all this extra weight many people are bitching about here is minimal on comparably equipped cars.

If you are in the US then sell your silver brakes and 788M wheels. Not only you'll save significant unsprung weight but also make profit if you go with 437M wheels and blue brakes (almost brand new blue brakes sell for ~$1K-1.5K as a set on classifieds and I sold my silver brakes for $5K). The look of the wheels are totally subjective. Guess who bought my 788M wheels? An OG M2 owner!
That sounds painful...whos going to buy a new car to strip the parts off it and replace? What about the cost of labor? What do you do when the car is down and can't be driven?

Quote:
I also don't understand the "OG M2 was cheaper" BS. Go try to retrofit the seats, mirrors, CF strut brace, 2NH brakes and all the extra cooling that is required to keep your "piece of art" N55 out of heat soak or limp mode. Let me know if you can do all these for less than $5K. The MSRP price difference between the OG M2 and M2C is worth for the S55 alone. The extra power, extra cooling, CF strut brace, larger brakes, seats, M buttons etc are just the bonus. Yes, N55 sounds great and that's pretty much the only thing it does better than S55. I don't see the weight as a problem because it's pretty easy to shave off a lot of weight off of M2C. Mine is already at 3490lbs with full tank and I'll drop another ~30lbs with an exhaust. Considering how easy it is to reduce weight in M2C and upgrades that it comes with (mainly the S55), I think it's a bargain at $60K.
Seats sure...but what is this N55 heat soak? Did multiple 20 minute sessions at Buttonwillow with stock cooling (in 100* weather...no issues)
Painful? Swapping brakes and wheels are now considered stripping the car down? Except for swapping the wheels, replacing brakes is an easy DIY if you don't wanna spend $300 for the labor. Also, I was going to do these upgrades even if I bought an OG M2 because one thing I know from tracking my M4 is that blue brakes suck at hard track duty! If M2C came with blue brakes and 437M wheels I would have sold them anyway. But BMW USA made us a favor and made the silver brakes standard. So I ended up making money and using it towards my AP racing BBK. So all in all, this is just less than half a day job and it wasn't painful at all. I upgraded only my wheels&brakes and saved [B]70lbs unsprung weight[\B] and there is more to come. If you think this is painful and want everything out of the box from factory then BMW has something coming out for you. The all new M2 CS with all the lightweight parts but with a heavyweight sticker price. I'm not willing to pay %50 premium over M2C for a model that may or may not drop 100lbs and may only come with DCT. That's why I'm building my own version of CS with the friction of what BMW would charge.

Just because you didn't experience any heat soaking doesn't mean it's not a common problem. Why do you think there are ton of threads on OG M2 forums regarding cooling upgrades? Maybe do some research... Even Matt Farah experienced heat soaking on OG M2 at the track (it's in one of his Youtube videos). Not even gonna mention N55 being an open deck engine and already maxed out from the factory.
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      12-09-2018, 02:57 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevM2 View Post
Even though his review was positive it lacked the same enthusiasm as the one he did for the original M2
I'd like to see him drive them back to back same day same track. M2C and OGM2.
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      12-09-2018, 03:16 PM   #103
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The video was ok i guess, short but the m2c is not a brand new car.

Chris has written interesting stuff too.
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      12-09-2018, 03:40 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshalygin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Don't forget hideous wheels!

Better car on paper...sure. I'll give you that, for the reasons you listed. But how much more performance can an average driver pull from the M2C than the M2? Are we talking 5%? 10% at the outside?

I also hate the sound of the S55...and the complexity of that motor
What S55 complexity do you speak of? An extra turbo that you don't care about as a driver?

The sound on this car is spectacular...IDK what you've been reading.

Even though the HP numbers are 10% higher, the usable band is much better on the M2C vs the M2. Look at the Torque/RPM curves.

You make it sound like 10% more HP is no biggie but claim that 100lbs is the end of the world.

Doing it wrong.

My list:
- Finally a sunroof option
- Way better looking than the last gen
- Way better seats
- Steering is substantially better.
- Although at first I was skeptical, I"m now convinced the 788's are way better looking than the 437s.
- Better suspension setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oshalygin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Don't forget hideous wheels!

Better car on paper...sure. I'll give you that, for the reasons you listed. But how much more performance can an average driver pull from the M2C than the M2? Are we talking 5%? 10% at the outside?

I also hate the sound of the S55...and the complexity of that motor
What S55 complexity do you speak of? An extra turbo that you don't care about as a driver?

The sound on this car is spectacular...IDK what you've been reading.

Even though the HP numbers are 10% higher, the usable band is much better on the M2C vs the M2. Look at the Torque/RPM curves.

You make it sound like 10% more HP is no biggie but claim that 100lbs is the end of the world.

Doing it wrong.

My list:
- Finally a sunroof option
- Way better looking than the last gen
- Way better seats
- Steering is substantially better.
- Although at first I was skeptical, I"m now convinced the 788's are way better looking than the 437s.
- Better suspension setup.

There is no better looking wheel than the black 437M. Really. Every time I clean mine, I just cant believe how attractive they are. AND, can you imagine trying to get brake dust out of the 788's?

In fact, if I choose to move from my '18 to an M2c, it will be ONLY if I can manage a trade of the 788's to the 437's!
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      12-09-2018, 03:49 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I guess I'm not the only one who thinks the seating position is a bit high. In fact, I think it's higher than my M4 (both at the lowest position).
I think there may be a difference between the position of electric and mechanical seats..... In the electric version, an smal engine runs under the seat.


With a mechanical chair and a height 188 cm I feel the seat is perfect.... in lowest position.
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      12-09-2018, 03:58 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Great find, thanks!

Although I thought his review was sort of anticlimactic, as he's basically parroting everything we're already heard 10x over, it's always a delight to see him showcasing the vehicle's potential, as he whips it around the a track..

Summary: A revised M2 with a better motor, shiny new strut brace and some "ugly" wheels added for good measure.
Geez, wheels aren't that bad BMW has done much worse.
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      12-09-2018, 04:11 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ41BIG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I guess I'm not the only one who thinks the seating position is a bit high. In fact, I think it's higher than my M4 (both at the lowest position).
I think there may be a difference between the position of electric and mechanical seats..... In the electric version, an smal engine runs under the seat.


With a mechanical chair and a height 188 cm I feel the seat is perfect.... in lowest position.
My comparison is based on electric seats in both cars (M2C and M4).
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      12-09-2018, 04:15 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Great find, thanks!

Although I thought his review was sort of anticlimactic, as he's basically parroting everything we're already heard 10x over, it's always a delight to see him showcasing the vehicle's potential, as he whips it around the a track..

Summary: A revised M2 with a better motor, shiny new strut brace and some "ugly" wheels added for good measure.
Geez, wheels aren't that bad BMW has done much worse.
I like them, I was just quoting the source..

They kind of remind me of the 1M 359M Style wheel.. Same weight also - 23.9lbs.

One of my personal faves:
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      12-09-2018, 04:28 PM   #109
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      12-09-2018, 06:29 PM   #110
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Is that the real sound of the car or is that sound from some bullshit being pumped in thru the speakers?

i've always known the M4's to sound horrible no matter if they were stock or aftermarket...its practically a fact.

The sound in the vid would be the best i ever heard from that motor.
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