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      07-30-2018, 12:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Fantastic news guys! I have found a way to quickly and very affordably drop over 100 pounds just in the wheels and brakes alone. This equates to 700 pounds of unsprung weight using the 7x modifier mentioned above.

I found these 19 inch rims online and they are incredibly lightweight! Why hasn't anyone else posted about these?! Not sure I like the finish, but figure I can paint them if I'd like. Also, can't tell from the eBay listing if these include the integrated brake on the wheel hub - check back later for more details. If not, I'm thinking of going with no brakes for additional weight savings. Even better - I can sell the OEM wheels and pocket a few bucks after this mod is complete. Let me know what you think, group buy maybe?
This is the lightweight, integrated brake kit I was hoping someone on the interwebs would be able to find! Group buy anyone?

Also, I wouldn't paint wheels; powdercoating is the way to go
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      07-30-2018, 12:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Members have proven weights of M3’s around 3400 lbs.

With the new steel driveshaft and Comp package maybe the 2019M4 is this heavy.

Why is BMW moving backwards? Why would a US car get a steel driveshaft? There is no reason, but guess what, it is happening and the steel part is a fraction of the price to BMW.

I personally see NO issue with people calling out BMW for adding weight to save money. The new G80 is supposedly going to weigh less than the F80, it will be interesting to see what figures they base that on? A 2015 F80 or an end run production F80.

BMW looks at the boards, and people have a right to let them know how they feel, IMO. Some people put cool wraps on their cars, others do weight savings builds, depending on the person and what matters to them.

M2C is going to be great!! I give BMW credit!!
Steel driveshaft is needed to accommodate OPF. Even though OPF doesn't exist on US cars, BMW apparently didn't want to make any further changes in their production line so that they could build two versions of the same car (one with the OPF and steel driveshaft and one with CF driveshaft without OPF).

Nobody is saying everyone should keep quiet about the additional weight. I'm one of those who complained out loud about the extra 150lbs weight. I would have preferred a lighter car like everyone else and I'm not going to praise BMW for adding weight even though the car apparently handles and feels even better now according to several reviews. If you wanna complain and criticize BMW about the new Ms getting heavier, I'm 100% behind it as everyone should. However, my point is some people take it on a whole new level by making some incorrect, apples-to-oranges comparisons. "M2C weighs more than even an M3/M4" is one of the most popular lines ever since the first details started to come out. This thread is for those trolls, haters, or whatever you wanna call them. Yes, M2C and M3/M4 weigh pretty much the same +/- 30lbs won't make any difference for anybody but as I said, that's not the point.
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      07-30-2018, 12:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenerbahce View Post
Haha, I can appreciate the spirit of this post. Folks need to enjoy the car for what it is. Maybe do some m-perf mods and call it a day. Not sure why anyone would bother swapping in small brakes for what will likely be an unnoticeable gain in performance. Even if you sell your original parts to offset the cost, you've molested the car at that point, and most others will not want to pay for a car with different brakes if you decide to sell later. People are getting into a manic state over all this weight talk
The brakes that I mentioned in this thread is not only lighter but also one of the best 6-piston front/4-piston rear brakes money can buy. If you don't track or not planning to track your car then ignore my post but 72lbs unsprung weight reduction will make a noticeable difference.

In fact, one of the main reasons why I looked for a different BBK setup was not because of weight savings. I learned about the weight savings later on and was pleasantly surprised. The stock BBK on M2C won't let you run any 18" track wheels due to its massive size.
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      07-30-2018, 04:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Everyone keeps comparing these 2 cars and there are several comments about how M2C weighs more than an M3/M4. When people were making this comparison they always referred the weight figure on BMWUSA from 2015 for 2015MY M4 which had lighter 437M wheels as opposed to heavier 666Ms and also CF driveshaft as opposed to steel driveshaft can be found on 2019 M4.

Well I just noticed today that BMWUSA updated their spec sheet for the 2019 M4. Now the manual M4 weighs 3625lbs and DCT weighs 3685lbs (some of this extra weight is probably due to the variables I mentioned in the first paragraph) compared to 3600lbs/3655lbs of M2C.

2019 M2 Competition
--------------------------




2019 M4
--------------------------

Still can't believe the M2 has ballooned up to 3600 lbs.... Why does the same DCT weigh 55 lbs in one car and 60 in another?
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      07-30-2018, 04:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Why does the same DCT weigh 55 lbs in one car and 60 in another?
The M4 DCT is filled with liquid gold, didn't you know that?
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      07-30-2018, 04:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
The M4 DCT is filled with liquid lead , didn't you know that?
fixed. . actually they both must have lead weights..
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      07-30-2018, 04:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Not all weight is the same.

Unsprung weight is a killer. You will feel it. 1 lb of unsprung weight equates to about 7 lbs of weight you can FEEL.

So if you add 30 lbs to wheel and brake weight you are adding what feels like over 200 lbs...

Adding weight below the suspension is a sure fire way to make the car feel heavy...

no way man... just add MOAR M POWER . you'll never know it's there.

The coefficient of drag on the M2 COMP is now 0.35 vs 0.34 on the M4..
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      07-30-2018, 04:30 PM   #30
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We'll weigh them soon enough. I'll find a 6MT m3 and/or m4 to weigh when I get my car. Bet they're only 80-90 lbs max apart.
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      07-30-2018, 04:38 PM   #31
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For comparison UK BMW site unladen weights.

2019 M2 Competition
1,550 kg or 3417 lbs

2019 M4
1,560 kg or 3439 lbs
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      07-30-2018, 04:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
For comparison UK BMW site unladen weights.

2019 M2 Competition
1,550 kg or 3417 lbs

2019 M4
1,560 kg or 3439 lbs
It's not surprising since the M4 has all of that CF and aluminum bits everywhere.
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      07-30-2018, 04:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
no way man... just add MOAR M POWER . you'll never know it's there.

The coefficient of drag on the M2 COMP is now 0.35 vs 0.34 on the M4..
Cd is a useless number anyway without an accurate area given. Even with drag calculated accurately it is still not particularly informative because it gives no info about lift or downforce.

Highly likely the M4 is more aerodynamic due to the more bulbous and traditional greenhouse of the 2 series.
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      07-30-2018, 05:06 PM   #34
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Someone check my numbers.

e46 M3 w/SMG -->3,508 lbs
e92 M3 w/DCT -->3,630 lbs
f87 M2C /DCT -->3,655 lbs
f8x M3/M4 /DCT -->3685 lbs
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      07-30-2018, 05:10 PM   #35
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According to people in these forums , all those weigh and feel the same ...
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      07-30-2018, 05:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
According to people in these forums , all those weigh and feel the same ...
Nobody said all those weigh and feel the same. However, people who don't track regularly (which is the majority of this forum) usually won't feel the difference. Just like yourself, I and several others have quite a bit track time with different cars. I tracked cars from M2, M3, M4 to Viper TA, open wheel Formula Mazda. I do know 150lbs is noticeable at the track (at least for me). I can feel the difference when I have a passenger in my M4 on the track even though it makes very little difference in terms of lap times. I agree 100% with you that 150lbs weight increase is A LOT and NOT pleasant. However, maybe you should try to look at it from a slightly different perspective. There are people here who have sold or are planning to sell their OG M2 or M3/M4s for the M2C despite the added weight. All of us here either could keep our current cars or can still buy an N55 M2 since there are still reasonable number of them on dealer lots. But all these people want S55 in a shorther wheelbase and some of us are willing to spend even more to easily shave off that extra weight. That should tell you something IMO. The bottom line is BMW is NOT gonna give you a 3400lbs car with S55 for sub 60K. As I said in a different thread, if you are after N55 M2 with its lesser weight, go for it! I'd rather have an M2C with S55 and spend another 10-15K on top of it to shave off 150-200lbs.
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      07-30-2018, 05:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Someone check my numbers.

e46 M3 w/SMG -->3,508 lbs
e92 M3 w/DCT -->3,630 lbs
f87 M2C /DCT -->3,655 lbs
f8x M3/M4 /DCT -->3685 lbs
Corrected the M2 DCT as the 6MT is 3450 lbs. The original reported weight for the M2 was indicated as the same as the 1M at 3295 lbs.. but the US spec was 3450 for the 6MT

e46 M3 w/SMG -->3,508 lbs
e92 M3 w/DCT -->3,630 lbs
F87 M2 w/DCT - - > 3505 lbs
F87 M2C /DCT -->3,655 lbs
f8x M3/M4 /DCT -->3685 lbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Nobody said all those weigh and feel the same. However, people who don't track regularly (which is the majority of this forum) usually won't feel the difference. Just like yourself, I and several others have quite a bit track time with different cars. I tracked cars from M2, M3, M4 to Viper TA, open wheel Formula Mazda. I do know 150lbs is noticeable at the track (at least for me). I can feel the difference when I have a passenger in my M4 on the track even though it makes very little difference in terms of lap times. I agree 100% with you that 150lbs weight increase is A LOT and NOT pleasant. However, maybe you should try to look at it from a slightly different perspective. There are people here who have sold or are planning to sell their OG M2 or M3/M4s for the M2C despite the added weight. All of us here either could keep our current cars or can still buy an N55 M2 since there are still reasonable number of them on dealer lots. But all these people want S55 in a shorther wheelbase and some of us are willing to spend even more to easily shave off that extra weight. That should tell you something IMO. The bottom line is BMW is NOT gonna give you a 3400lbs car with S55 for sub 60K. As I said in a different thread, if you are after N55 M2 with its lesser weight, go for it! I'd rather have an M2C with S55 and spend another 10-15K on top of it to shave off 150-200lbs.
your M2 Comp will be 360 lbs heavier than my 1M.

An M2 comp in an equivalent 6MT is 305 lbs more than my 1M.

I originally was interested in the M2 as a replacement for the 1M.. and BMW originally repeated the 1M curb weight in the Euro figures.
However.. When the 3450 lb OG M2 came stateside that was a disappointment to me.

I have been hoping for a CS or CSL that would apply some weight savings.. but instead we have an even FATTER M2 (competition makes it Heavier) model now.

At this point.. for me.. all F8X are a disappointment. I am keeping the 1M and will look to potentially upgrade my X1 to an X3M40 or X3M.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 07-30-2018 at 05:58 PM..
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      07-30-2018, 05:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Nobody said all those weigh and feel the same. However, people who don't track regularly (which is the majority of this forum) usually won't feel the difference. Just like yourself, I and several others have quite a bit track time with different cars. I tracked cars from M2, M3, M4 to Viper TA, open wheel Formula Mazda. I do know 150lbs is noticeable at the track (at least for me). I can feel the difference when I have a passenger in my M4 on the track even though it makes very little difference in terms of lap times. I agree 100% with you that 150lbs weight increase is A LOT and NOT pleasant. However, maybe you should try to look at it from a slightly different perspective. There are people here who have sold or are planning to sell their OG M2 or M3/M4s for the M2C despite the added weight. All of us here either could keep our current cars or can still buy an N55 M2 since there are still reasonable number of them on dealer lots. But all these people want S55 in a shorther wheelbase and some of us are willing to spend even more to easily shave off that extra weight. That should tell you something IMO. The bottom line is BMW is NOT gonna give you a 3400lbs car with S55 for sub 60K. As I said in a different thread, if you are after N55 M2 with its lesser weight, go for it! I'd rather have an M2C with S55 and spend another 10-15K on top of it to shave off 150-200lbs.
your M2 Comp is 360 lbs more than my 1M.

The M2 comp in 6MT is 305 lbs more than my 1M.

I originally was interested in the M2 as a replacement for the 1M.. but BMW originally repeated the 1M curb weight in the Euro figures. When the 3450 lb OG M2 came stateside that was a disappointment to me.

I have been hoping for a CS or CSL that would apply some weight savings.. but instead we have an even FATTER M2 (competition makes it Heavier) model now.
Your 1M is 1000lbs heavier than a Miata. Why don't you get one? I think that's your ultimate "CSL".
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      07-30-2018, 05:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Your 1M is 1000lbs heavier than a Miata. Why don't you get one? I think that's your ultimate "CSL".
I have driven a Miata many times.. .. but never owned a Mazda. I'm not sure how Japanese cars entered a discussion regarding weight in German (specifically BMW) cars..

Prior to my ownership of the 1M... was an E30 M3... much more fun than a Miata... and 2680 lbs.... indeed.. nearly the full 1K lbs lighter than an M2 C.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 07-30-2018 at 06:20 PM..
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      07-30-2018, 06:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I have driven a Miata many times.. .. but never owned a Mazda. I'm not sure how Japanese cars entered a discussion regarding weight in German (specifically BMW) cars..

Prior to my ownership of the 1M... was an E30 M3... much more fun than a Miata... and 2680 lbs.... indeed.. nearly the full 1K lbs lighter than an M2 C.
I brought it up since you are all about less weight and you don't seem to like any modern BMW in that matter. Most likely a future M2 CSL will disappoint you as well for the same reasons. Btw the curb weight of a 2018 Miata (MT) is around 2300lbs and yes, almost 1300lbs lighter than an M2C and 1000lbs lighter than a 1M.
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      07-30-2018, 07:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I brought it up since you are all about less weight and you don't seem to like any modern BMW in that matter. Most likely a future M2 CSL will disappoint you as well for the same reasons. Btw the curb weight of a 2018 Miata (MT) is around 2300lbs and yes, almost 1300lbs lighter than an M2C and 1000lbs lighter than a 1M.
the 1M is tops on what a modern sports car should weigh.... and the current Cayman and Boxster.. even the Corvette... weigh less than the M2

2019 Chevrolet Corvette Weight: 3,298 lbs
2018 Porsche Cayman Base Curb Weight (lbs.): 2943
2018 Nissan 370 Z 3333-3386 lbs



3600lbs is a GT (grand tourer) or muscle car weight.. ... which is what all F8X are. Not a small coupe/sporty car/sportscar weight.


1992 Mazda Miata - 2100 lbs (940

https://mossmiata.com/miata-1992


1998 2250-2350 lbs

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-miata-page-10

2004.. 2500 lbs
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...iata-road-test

Mazda is clearly concerned about weight and has REDUCED weight. BMW is not and has INCREASED weight.

2010 -2542 https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehic...x-5-miata/2010

2018 - back down to 2300 lbs


So...over a 20 year span... mazda has gone back to basics... I was hoping BMW would make SOME sort of effort to reduce weight.

AFTER all.. they screamed about EFFICENT DYNAMICS when the 1M was made... but what they have done since is the opposite. INEFFICIENT but DYNAMIC.


take a look at the following page which has the weights for many different cars... when it comes to a sport or sporty car.. the BMWs 2 series is heavier than nearly all competitors.

http://autotk.com/weight/nissan/370z/

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 07-30-2018 at 07:31 PM..
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      07-30-2018, 07:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I have driven a Miata many times.. .. but never owned a Mazda. I'm not sure how Japanese cars entered a discussion regarding weight in German (specifically BMW) cars..

Prior to my ownership of the 1M... was an E30 M3... much more fun than a Miata... and 2680 lbs.... indeed.. nearly the full 1K lbs lighter than an M2 C.
Z4M roadster 3150 lbs.
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      07-30-2018, 09:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I originally was interested in the M2 as a replacement for the 1M.. and BMW originally repeated the 1M curb weight in the Euro figures.
However.. When the 3450 lb OG M2 came stateside that was a disappointment to me.
Can't disagree it came in pretty heavy for its size, tho it was somewhat mitigated by being a bit less than the M235i, which arrived a couple years earlier reportedly (according to BMW NA) tipping the scales at a portly 3505 lbs (interestingly, they coyly listed the M235i as being a half dozen lbs lighter the following year...), and by being roughly one suitcase heavier than my pal's coveted '05 E46 M3.

And of course I missed the 1M boat.
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      07-30-2018, 09:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I brought it up since you are all about less weight and you don't seem to like any modern BMW in that matter. Most likely a future M2 CSL will disappoint you as well for the same reasons. Btw the curb weight of a 2018 Miata (MT) is around 2300lbs and yes, almost 1300lbs lighter than an M2C and 1000lbs lighter than a 1M.
the 1M is tops on what a modern sports car should weigh.... and the current Cayman and Boxster.. even the Corvette... weigh less than the M2

2019 Chevrolet Corvette Weight: 3,298 lbs
2018 Porsche Cayman Base Curb Weight (lbs.): 2943
2018 Nissan 370 Z 3333-3386 lbs



3600lbs is a GT (grand tourer) or muscle car weight.. ... which is what all F8X are. Not a small coupe/sporty car/sportscar weight.


1992 Mazda Miata - 2100 lbs (940

https://mossmiata.com/miata-1992


1998 2250-2350 lbs

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-miata-page-10

2004.. 2500 lbs
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...iata-road-test

Mazda is clearly concerned about weight and has REDUCED weight. BMW is not and has INCREASED weight.

2010 -2542 https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehic...x-5-miata/2010

2018 - back down to 2300 lbs


So...over a 20 year span... mazda has gone back to basics... I was hoping BMW would make SOME sort of effort to reduce weight.

AFTER all.. they screamed about EFFICENT DYNAMICS when the 1M was made... but what they have done since is the opposite. INEFFICIENT but DYNAMIC.


take a look at the following page which has the weights for many different cars... when it comes to a sport or sporty car.. the BMWs 2 series is heavier than nearly all competitors.

http://autotk.com/weight/nissan/370z/
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I brought it up since you are all about less weight and you don't seem to like any modern BMW in that matter. Most likely a future M2 CSL will disappoint you as well for the same reasons. Btw the curb weight of a 2018 Miata (MT) is around 2300lbs and yes, almost 1300lbs lighter than an M2C and 1000lbs lighter than a 1M.
the 1M is tops on what a modern sports car should weigh.... and the current Cayman and Boxster.. even the Corvette... weigh less than the M2

2019 Chevrolet Corvette Weight: 3,298 lbs
2018 Porsche Cayman Base Curb Weight (lbs.): 2943
2018 Nissan 370 Z 3333-3386 lbs



3600lbs is a GT (grand tourer) or muscle car weight.. ... which is what all F8X are. Not a small coupe/sporty car/sportscar weight.


1992 Mazda Miata - 2100 lbs (940

https://mossmiata.com/miata-1992


1998 2250-2350 lbs

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-miata-page-10

2004.. 2500 lbs
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...iata-road-test

Mazda is clearly concerned about weight and has REDUCED weight. BMW is not and has INCREASED weight.

2010 -2542 https://www.vehiclehistory.com/vehic...x-5-miata/2010

2018 - back down to 2300 lbs


So...over a 20 year span... mazda has gone back to basics... I was hoping BMW would make SOME sort of effort to reduce weight.

AFTER all.. they screamed about EFFICENT DYNAMICS when the 1M was made... but what they have done since is the opposite. INEFFICIENT but DYNAMIC.


take a look at the following page which has the weights for many different cars... when it comes to a sport or sporty car.. the BMWs 2 series is heavier than nearly all competitors.

http://autotk.com/weight/nissan/370z/

Regarding your comment that I do not favor modern BMWs.

I own the following- 2004 E46 vert, a 2011 1M and a 2013 X1 which was made thru 2015.

So.. if 2013 doesn't count as " any modern BMW " then .. I must inform you that I AM interested in the X3M40 or the X3M.

The X3M40 would be a fine upgrade but I'm thinking that an X3M would be the best option available for me if I'm gonna buy a 3600 lb plus M CAR..
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