Flipping staggered setup

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 04-27-2019, 08:32 AM

All - looking for insight regarding flipping staggered setup. I run mainly tracks that put a lot more wear on the left set of tires. What's the consensus regarding flipping wheels on the respective axels? I run directional tires (PS4s). I imagine there may be some minor impact to drive ability due to the tread design, but generally speaking I have to think the setup won't result in any safety issues that would result in tire failure.

When I rode moto, we used to flip directional tires with no issues. I expect same results with summer performance tires.

Looking for insight from those that have tried this.

Thanks!

ZM2 · 04-27-2019, 08:41 AM

My understanding is having directional tires rotating the right direction is purely for water evacuation, so no big deal to flip on dry track days.

Someone else prob has thoughts on this, tho.

pal · 04-27-2019, 08:55 AM

The PS4S is not a directional tire. It's asymmetric. I've not seen anyone flip an asymmetric tire inside out on the rim. On the Michelin asymmetric tires, I believe the compound is different across the face of the tire. Now if you are simply talking about rotating the wheel left to right, then that should be fine.

I've only flipped directional tires e.g., Hankook RS3/RS4, RE71Rs etc inside out in the rim. I've also run them backwards (rotate left to right) in the dry. Did not have any issues with either of those.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 04-27-2019, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pal

The PS4S is not a directional tire. It's asymmetric. I've not seen anyone flip an asymmetric tire inside out on the rim. On the Michelin asymmetric tires, I believe the compound is different across the face of the tire. Now if you are simply talking about rotating the wheel left to right, then that should be fine.

I've only flipped directional tires e.g., Hankook RS3/RS4, RE71Rs etc inside out in the rim. I've also run them backwards (rotate left to right) in the dry. Did not have any issues with either of those.

Appreciate the response guys. Sounds like switching the wheels won't be an issue and will save me a bunch of mullah for more time.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 04-27-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Quote:

Originally Posted by pal

The PS4S is not a directional tire. It's asymmetric. I've not seen anyone flip an asymmetric tire inside out on the rim. On the Michelin asymmetric tires, I believe the compound is different across the face of the tire. Now if you are simply talking about rotating the wheel left to right, then that should be fine.

I've only flipped directional tires e.g., Hankook RS3/RS4, RE71Rs etc inside out in the rim. I've also run them backwards (rotate left to right) in the dry. Did not have any issues with either of those.

Appreciate the response guys. Sounds like switching the wheels won't be an issue and will save me a bunch of mullah for more time.

Follow up question, will the tech inspector care about this when I show up with the set up in the morning? Or should I flip it after I pass Tech.

ZM2 · 04-27-2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Follow up question, will the tech inspector care about this when I show up with the set up in the morning? Or should I flip it after I pass Tech.

They don’t care and I doubt any look that closely.

I’ve ran PSS, PS4S, RE-71R, R888R, and Trofeo R’s flipped on the axle in the dry and noticed no impacts to feel or time. Just helps with longevity.

5.M0NSTER · 04-27-2019, 12:03 PM

I’ve had RS-3 on my Mustang, and also flipped them. I did not notice any adverse effects on track. Bit sketchy in the rain, had to drive 50 in a 70 in heavy rain on the way home. But no big deal.

M2joey · 04-30-2019, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Follow up question, will the tech inspector care about this when I show up with the set up in the morning? Or should I flip it after I pass Tech.

As long as your tread depth is good, outer wear, etc., it will not matter. A lot of people switch / rotate wheels around, including myself, especially the fronts - when I was running PSS / 4Ss.

CrashFL · 04-30-2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isjoey

As long as your tread depth is good, outer wear, etc., it will not matter. A lot of people switch / rotate wheels around, including myself, especially the fronts - when I was running PSS / 4Ss.

I'm glad to know that. I'll be going back to the RE-71R, and flipping them L-R to get more than 5 days' use.

M2joey · 05-01-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashFL

I'm glad to know that. I'll be going back to the RE-71R, and flipping them L-R to get more than 5 days' use.

Unfortunately, the RE-71Rs must be switched inside / outside on the wheels. They cannot be rotated like PSS / 4Ss. I normally have the RE-71Rs switched at 50% or so. They last longer as they lose some rubber, of course.

Proctor750 · 05-22-2019, 10:43 AM

we run street tires (re71 and rs4) on the race car backwards all the time. If it rains we flip them back around.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 06-05-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proctor750

we run street tires (re71 and rs4) on the race car backwards all the time. If it rains we flip them back around.

... follow-up question:

To flip or not to flip (PS4s) on the rim? Both of my rear tires have significantly more thread left on the inside shoulder, so I am considering flipping them to get a weekend or more out of them. I expect that I would sacrifice some traction as the outside shoulder is tuned for dry track and flipping it would expose the part of the tire tuned for improved wet traction loading forces through corners, where maximum grip would be sacrificed.

Has anyone run this configuration and have real world feedback?

Thanks!

dvas · 06-05-2019, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

... follow-up question:

To flip or not to flip (PS4s) on the rim? Both of my rear tires have significantly more thread left on the inside shoulder, so I am considering flipping them to get a weekend or more out of them. I expect that I would sacrifice some traction as the outside shoulder is tuned for dry track and flipping it would expose the part of the tire tuned for improved wet traction loading forces through corners, where maximum grip would be sacrificed.

Has anyone run this configuration and have real world feedback?

Thanks!

PS4s are asymmetric as noted above and not directional. They have different rubber compounds across the face of the tire from one shoulder to the other (softer rubber on the outside shoulders to offer better cornering grip). Flipping them on the rim defeats the whole intent of the design. But because the are not directional they can be run in any direction, dry or wet conditions. Therefore, you can simply rotate the wheels/tires from one side of your car to the other and you will be good to go.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 06-05-2019, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvas

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

... follow-up question:

To flip or not to flip (PS4s) on the rim? Both of my rear tires have significantly more thread left on the inside shoulder, so I am considering flipping them to get a weekend or more out of them. I expect that I would sacrifice some traction as the outside shoulder is tuned for dry track and flipping it would expose the part of the tire tuned for improved wet traction loading forces through corners, where maximum grip would be sacrificed.

Has anyone run this configuration and have real world feedback?

Thanks!

PS4s are asymmetric as noted above and not directional. They have different rubber compounds across the face of the tire from one shoulder to the other (softer rubber on the outside shoulders to offer better cornering grip). Flipping them on the rim defeats the whole intent of the design. But because the are not directional they can be run in any direction, dry or wet conditions. Therefore, you can simply rotate the wheels/tires from one side of your car to the other and you will be good to go.

Rotating them on the axle won't solve the issue regarding the excessive outer side fire wear. Outer side on the left side remains an outer side when the wheel is moved to right side.

Proctor750 · 06-05-2019, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Rotating them on the axle won't solve the issue regarding the excessive outer side fire wear. Outer side on the left side remains an outer side when the wheel is moved to right side.

Sorry I should have been clear about the E30. It's a square setup, we X the entire wheel/tire (so they are backwards) since we have close to 5 deg camber up front...

Running them front or back didn't make a difference to our lap times, just the tire life. These were RE71R's though...

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 06-06-2019, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Rotating them on the axle won't solve the issue regarding the excessive outer side fire wear. Outer side on the left side remains an outer side when the wheel is moved to right side.

Sorry I should have been clear about the E30. It's a square setup, we X the entire wheel/tire (so they are backwards) since we have close to 5 deg camber up front...

Running them front or back didn't make a difference to our lap times, just the tire life. These were RE71R's though...

Cool. Thanks.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 06-17-2019, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Quote:

Originally Posted by landapanda

Rotating them on the axle won't solve the issue regarding the excessive outer side fire wear. Outer side on the left side remains an outer side when the wheel is moved to right side.

Sorry I should have been clear about the E30. It's a square setup, we X the entire wheel/tire (so they are backwards) since we have close to 5 deg camber up front...

Running them front or back didn't make a difference to our lap times, just the tire life. These were RE71R's though...

Cool. Thanks.

I spoke to a local race shop and they recommended against doing this. Apparently the sidewalk construction is different on each side, with the inside wall not as stiff, which could result in a significantly higher risk of tire failure if flipped on the wheel.

tux2005 · 06-17-2019, 07:58 AM

Really? I don't think I've seen any "Inside"/"Outside" markings on the tires so how would the installer know if it's a left or right tire?

I've swapped RE71Rs around on the rims to get a bit more life out of them, and also run them backwards and didn't notice any adverse effects.

GasBurnlife(landapanda) · 06-17-2019, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux2005

Really? I don't think I've seen any "Inside"/"Outside" markings on the tires so how would the installer know if it's a left or right tire?

I've swapped RE71Rs around on the rims to get a bit more life out of them, and also run them backwards and didn't notice any adverse effects.

PS4s have in/outside marks

04-27-2019, 08:32 AM	#1
GasBurnlife(landapanda) Captain 575 Rep 684 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Ashburn, Virginia iTrader: (0)	Flipping staggered setup All - looking for insight regarding flipping staggered setup. I run mainly tracks that put a lot more wear on the left set of tires. What's the consensus regarding flipping wheels on the respective axels? I run directional tires (PS4s). I imagine there may be some minor impact to drive ability due to the tread design, but generally speaking I have to think the setup won't result in any safety issues that would result in tire failure. When I rode moto, we used to flip directional tires with no issues. I expect same results with summer performance tires. Looking for insight from those that have tried this. Thanks!
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04-27-2019, 08:41 AM	#2
ZM2 Brigadier General 2811 Rep 3,695 Posts Drives: 2017 LBB M2 Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Baltimore iTrader: (1)	My understanding is having directional tires rotating the right direction is purely for water evacuation, so no big deal to flip on dry track days. Someone else prob has thoughts on this, tho.
	Appreciate 2 GasBurnlife(landapanda)575.00 jnoyes35.00 Quote

04-27-2019, 08:55 AM	#3
pal Captain 433 Rep 753 Posts Drives: Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (2)	The PS4S is not a directional tire. It's asymmetric. I've not seen anyone flip an asymmetric tire inside out on the rim. On the Michelin asymmetric tires, I believe the compound is different across the face of the tire. Now if you are simply talking about rotating the wheel left to right, then that should be fine. I've only flipped directional tires e.g., Hankook RS3/RS4, RE71Rs etc inside out in the rim. I've also run them backwards (rotate left to right) in the dry. Did not have any issues with either of those.
	Appreciate 2 GasBurnlife(landapanda)575.00 bentom2335.50 Quote

04-27-2019, 12:03 PM	#7
5.M0NSTER Lieutenant Colonel 3354 Rep 1,823 Posts Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Back in Michigan, GO BLUE! iTrader: (0)	I’ve had RS-3 on my Mustang, and also flipped them. I did not notice any adverse effects on track. Bit sketchy in the rain, had to drive 50 in a 70 in heavy rain on the way home. But no big deal.
	Appreciate 1 GasBurnlife(landapanda)575.00 Quote

05-22-2019, 10:43 AM	#11
Proctor750 Lieutenant 426 Rep 538 Posts Drives: E30 M3 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Hattie B's iTrader: (0)	we run street tires (re71 and rs4) on the race car backwards all the time. If it rains we flip them back around.
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06-17-2019, 07:58 AM	#18
tux2005 First Lieutenant 234 Rep 350 Posts Drives: 2017 M2 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	Really? I don't think I've seen any "Inside"/"Outside" markings on the tires so how would the installer know if it's a left or right tire? I've swapped RE71Rs around on the rims to get a bit more life out of them, and also run them backwards and didn't notice any adverse effects.
	Appreciate 0 Quote