[ZM2]

What do you guys think of these pics? Normal pagid and disc wear after a few track days?

Also a little concerned about the discoloration around the bleed screw (on both sides of the car). I can say that both bleed screws are on pretty darn tight. Maybe wheel cleaner overspray? I tried some 91% alcohol, but it didn't come off.

[Wangspeed]

Normal for a little to come out of the top. It's because there is some trapped. Unless you use cleaner to spray it out, or some paper to soak it up, I wouldn't worry much about it if the bleeders are tight and the pedal is solid.

Holes and slots filling up with slag is also normal. You can poke them out if it bothers you, but don't expect it to change performance.

[ZM2]

Thanks.

From the pictures it almost looks like the front discs are getting too hot and the surface is melting a little bit into the holes (along with the brake dust). The front pads look like they could be chewed up from disc material transferring to them.

What do you guys think?

Also my rear pads look perfect.

[Wangspeed]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thanks.

From the pictures it almost looks like the front discs are getting too hot and the surface is melting a little bit into the holes (along with the brake dust). The front pads look like they could be chewed up from disc material transferring to them.

What do you guys think?

Also my rear pads look perfect.

Probably the pads running outside of optimal range. The discs should be just fine. Since you have them, I would still use them up first, then try something else. Like PFC08.

[M2joey]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Interesting comments from everyone.

I am running in MDM while I'm learning the limits of the car.

I haven't heard anyone complain about the RS29/SRF combo, so it makes me wonder if a perfect bleed job didn't happen. If so, it just seems odd that it didn't appear until my third day.

What fluid level do you all start at, and have you noticed any expansion?

Thanks.

I ran RS19s and SRF in my 335is - no issues. The only problem I feel I ultimately experienced / learned was just asking too much of my brakes. I feel the RS pads would generate too much heat for the OEM (Textar) rotors. I had to let them cool down a half lap, etc. sometimes. The feedback from M2 owners running RS29s seems pretty good so far. Will be running them as well at some point.

Edit - Was using RS19s not RS29s.

[M2joey]

Hard to tell from the photos, what % of the pad do you think you used? Hmm, looks like you might have a little uneven pad wear.

One thing I don't see often although sure people do more often than what is mentioned in the forums. When I decide to put the RS19 pads on, I will bite the bullet and put on new rotors at the same time as well. This way there will not be conflict between brake pad materials. The first time I put RS pads on with moderately used rotors I starting encountering mega vibrations which led to warping / killing all four rotors after two track days - an expensive mistake.

Edit: RS19 pads not RS29s

[ZM2]

Hey isjoey.

I'd guess 2/3-3/4 left after three track days.

No vibrations, but it really does look like the rotor surface has melted and has covered the leading edge of the chamfer on the drilled holes.

Sounds crazy, but it's definitely disc material that is warping the hole outlines, and pad material in the holes.

[CosmosMpower]

Those pads don't look right, my RSL1's did not wear anything like that. The edges shouldn't be chipping off like that there shouldn't be chunks missing. Also the blue M calipers will eventually turn green if you track them enough. I don't think the stains from the drip of brake fluid will come out either.

[ZM2]

Yeah, I'm waiting on some feedback from Turner and Pagid.

And, I feel like an idiot letting the fluid eat up the caliper paint. I wiped everything down after the flush, but didn't hit the bleed valves like Wangspeed said. I'll try some brake cleaner, but I'm sure it won't do anything.

Do you guys do anything to "fix" your green calipers? I'm guessing BMW just laughs if you ask them to replace them?

[Wangspeed]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yeah, I'm waiting on some feedback from Turner and Pagid.

And, I feel like an idiot letting the fluid eat up the caliper paint. I wiped everything down after the flush, but didn't hit the bleed valves like Wangspeed said. I'll try some brake cleaner, but I'm sure it won't do anything.

Do you guys do anything to "fix" your green calipers? I'm guessing BMW just laughs if you ask them to replace them?

I just plan on replacing the front calipers after a few years. After the boots crumble to dust and the calipers turn green or brown.

They should have anodized them. Even my Cobalt SS had anodized calipers. PC always changes color due to heat.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yeah, I'm waiting on some feedback from Turner and Pagid.

And, I feel like an idiot letting the fluid eat up the caliper paint. I wiped everything down after the flush, but didn't hit the bleed valves like Wangspeed said. I'll try some brake cleaner, but I'm sure it won't do anything.

Do you guys do anything to "fix" your green calipers? I'm guessing BMW just laughs if you ask them to replace them?

No way to fix the calipers when they turn color, just replace them or yank them off before they turn green and do a aftermarket BBK and keep OEM for when you sell the car.

[M2joey]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yeah, I'm waiting on some feedback from Turner and Pagid.

And, I feel like an idiot letting the fluid eat up the caliper paint. I wiped everything down after the flush, but didn't hit the bleed valves like Wangspeed said. I'll try some brake cleaner, but I'm sure it won't do anything.

Do you guys do anything to "fix" your green calipers? I'm guessing BMW just laughs if you ask them to replace them?

I have the morning off work so I decided to look at my old Pagid pads. It turns out I used RS19s and not RS29s. Sounds like the 29s have a bit more all-around bite and a little higher friction pad than the 19s.

The attached photos are of two different sets of 19s. I would guess 10 to 15 track days on each set. I have a hunch your pads may have got too hot.

[ZM2]

Yeah, yours look much better! Thanks for sharing.

Once I get some feedback from Turner and Pagid, I'll give everyone an update.

[ZM2]

Hey guys.

So, Turner says the issue is from too much heat into the pads. The backing plate discoloration being another indicator of this. This brings up a lot of questions since I haven't heard anyone having overheating issues with RS29s, and I'm running a stock M2.

Have you all seen this problem with the Pagid's?

Otherwise, what are the chances I did the pad and fluid flush wrong somehow and was getting constant pad rub? I placed the fluid level in between min and max and had nice pedal feel until my third track day. However, as I mentioned, I did note a little fluid coming out of the top of the reservoir at the track as it heated and expanded, but you all indicated this is normal. And, I don't remember hearing or feeling constant pad rub, so I don't think that was the case.

I'm just trying to figure out how I smoked these pads when I haven't heard anyone having this issue. I'm a hard braker, but I can't be harder than many of you guys here.

Thanks.

[Wangspeed]

Other folks complain some about them too. Certainly a minority though. Partly why I went with the PFC, but they were just recently available.

I haven't had good luck with Pagids on heavy street cars. Inevitably end up with uneven deposits. Still though, I would use them up. Just go easy on the brakes for half a lap or so and they should come right back. Also helps if you just brake less and carry more speed ? Try running a lap with as little brake as possible. That means coming off the throttle early, but still trying to hit your corner speeds. For Summit, you could do this as 2 braking points for the entire track. Kinda like a cool down lap, but faster.

[Twt]

Since I am "new" to BMW , I stayed loyal to Carbotech because they always had a great product/service for the last 5+ years on my track C5Z....which had similar weight and bigger brakes than my M2. I have already worn out a set of XP 10 in the front and have zero issues. The initial bite is great and torque is linear....rotors are still fine. As to brake application, I turn on my Mlaptimer, which syncs to my iPhone ( in my pocket or console ) and I can look at braking on every lap to help me analyze and improve my driving....this software is insane!!!!!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Probably TC kicking on all the time and overheating the brakes. It's very intrusive, I don't know how you could really drive with it on even in MDM mode unless you're a completely new green driver. The car is super neutral and easy to drive, turn off TC.

Actually ... it takes a really GOOD driver to drive quickly with MDM On.. because you can't be sawing at the wheel all the time and you have to be precise.

Of course an even BETTER driver would use the brakes LESS. Being faster isn't about hitting the brakes hard..


US MDM mode is fairly restrictive but works best with street tires on track. Moving up to track tires will only cause more braking issues because of the higher speed and g forces on the car. Overbraking on top of all that will cause serious overheating..

@ZM2. You aren't boiling your fluid .. you are boiling your pads however ..

Agree with @cosmosmpower that @ZM2 is likely burning through the pads with traction control on (MDM)however... if you are smoking the brakes with MDM then it's time to begin learning to brake less and also turn off the TC. You shouldn't be using it *every* session... well.. unless you have a DCT ..

Then it's all about playing the video game anyway ..

[ZM2]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'll put these pads back on for my next track days and see what happens. I guess I should go ahead and buy another set of my choosing, tho, in case these don't come back to my liking, so that I can change pads at the track and not ruin my weekend.

Turner said to bump up to the RSL1 (which I believe Cosmos runs), but I hear that pad is more aggressive and can cause issues switching b/n it and the stock pads. Maybe Cosmos can chime in.

Altho, based on this experience I am inclined to go PFC or Carbotech. Will do some more research.

Wangspeed, as for going easy on brakes on Summit main, I guess I'd have to learn turns 3 and 10 a little differently, as I'd definitely want to keep clamping down on 1 & 5.

Twt, the Laptimer app is pretty sweet. I used it to compare two different lines that two different instructors were telling me. It definitely showed which line I preferred (Wangspeed: go to center track out of 2, aim at the tub for turn 3, slam brakes, clip the outside E, turn hard left; vs, going track right out of 2, braking slightly earlier for 3, carry speed around the corner). Here's a link to a partial session using the first method (my preferred) with two warm up laps and then a hot lap with some traffic: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgigEV_O62WJgblK9mXfE-fHWWZ_hg

M3 Adjuster, agreed. MDM definitely was teaching me how to unwind the wheel better so that I could get power down sooner. But the counter to that is it was pulling throttle for me when I should be doing that on my own. Will have euro MDM coded before my next track day, then move to TC off.

I did confirm that MDM puts everything in Comfort and TC off goes into Sport. I definitely like the feel in Comfort (can give more finite inputs), so we'll see if I stay in MDM Euro.

Thanks guys.

[Wangspeed]

Definitely keep using the rear pads. Just get some different fronts if you really can't stand them. You won't notice the difference between the different rear endurance pads.

I didn't run any of the M Laptimer or Drive Analyzer. Have my AIM solo. I didn't try MDM. Went to all nannies off right out of the paddock

I'm not sure I follow the description of T1/2. It's really just 1 turn with 1 apex. You might be able to tell what mine is from my video. You probably already saw it in my thread.

[ZM2]

Got it on the rear pads.

And, I had my corner numbers mixed up b/c like you said, 1 & 2 is really just one corner, so I was calling corner 3, "corner 2". I edited my post above.

Our track lines are very similar. You take the line bn 2 & 3 right between the two instructors I had. First instructor wanted me to hang a little more center track and aim at the E at 3, second instructor wanted me to get far right out of 2, hug track, then brake. I didn't like the second approach, as I was always having to brake while following the curve of the track.

I also swing out a little more bn 5 & 6.

Otherwise, it looked very familiar, except I can tell your tires have a lot more grip than my PSS's! And, you're smoother.

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

if you are smoking the brakes with MDM then it's time to begin learning to brake less and also turn off the TC. You shouldn't be using it *every* session... well.. unless you have a DCT ..

Can you clarify? I always run with TC off on my DCT. MDM is too invasive.

[ZM2]

My PFC's with Euro MDM seem to be holding up. Will see how this weekend goes.