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      03-04-2020, 11:38 PM   #1
Bill in Marin
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What do I need to know about running slicks?

If I decide to go for Hoosier R7's on my track wheels, is there anything I should be wary of? Any reason to not go with slicks, if I'm going to be swapping wheels at the track? Do I need camber plates? I'm looking at ordering a full set of track wheels (Apex Forged ARC-8R) + tires.

If you are finding this thread b/c my car is now for sale, I never ended up getting slicks or track wheels.

Last edited by Bill in Marin; 01-19-2023 at 04:05 PM..
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      03-05-2020, 02:39 AM   #2
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In my discussions with Apex the only wheel they recommend for the M2C is the ec-7 9.5 & 10.5 Et 28 front, 45 rear. They are out of stock and not expected for quite a while. They are not expecting any fully forged 19” wheels for An even longer period.

I had hoped to go that direction as well. Ended up with Titan 7 wheels.. BEAUTIFUL, lighter but definitely more expensive (like 2x) but in stock at EAS. Good folks.
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      03-05-2020, 07:01 AM   #3
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R7s aren't going to give you much warning when they break loose. If you're new, you're better off going to either stock/street tires, or one of the various 200 TW extreme performance summer tires.
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      03-05-2020, 08:15 AM   #4
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They don't last either. Performance falls off after just a few heat cycles.
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      03-05-2020, 08:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
If I decide to go for Hoosier R7's on my track wheels, is there anything I should be wary of? Any reason to not go with slicks, if I'm going to be swapping wheels at the track? Do I need camber plates? I'm looking at ordering a full set of track wheels (Apex Forged ARC-8R) + tires.
Hi, if it is not dedicated, caged car I would personally vouch against it. It puts tremendous stress on all parts of the car.

But many people still do it anyhow and experience no problems. So its your bet
Think about safety too, full harness and great braking system is must 👍😉
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      03-05-2020, 10:10 AM   #6
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Yea I would ask yourself why you think you need them. There are plenty of amazing 200 and 100tw tires that you could run instead and have even more fun with. 1:38s are possible at Laguna with NT01s in an M2 Comp so there isn't really a reason to run slicks.
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      03-05-2020, 12:28 PM   #7
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I certainly don't need them, as I'm don't care to chase the last few seconds. I am in the faster is more fun camp, but given that I was buying new wheels, it was more of a 'why not?' I think I'll stick with the DOT legal R-Compounds.
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      03-05-2020, 01:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
I certainly don't need them, as I'm don't care to chase the last few seconds. I am in the faster is more fun camp, but given that I was buying new wheels, it was more of a 'why not?' I think I'll stick with the DOT legal R-Compounds.
Yea I think you'll have JUST as much fun with those! I would invest in some actual brakes with upgraded rotors/calipers for extra fast. And you definitely need camber plates and should be running aggressive camber.
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      03-05-2020, 02:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Marin View Post
I certainly don't need them, as I'm don't care to chase the last few seconds. I am in the faster is more fun camp, but given that I was buying new wheels, it was more of a 'why not?' I think I'll stick with the DOT legal R-Compounds.
Bill, the R7 is a DOT legal R Compound tire.

Other DOT approved R compounds are:

Hoosier A7
BFG R1 & R1s
Toyo 888, RA1, RR
Nitto NT05

Then there are the tires you can drive to the track on such as the :

Michelin Sport Cups
Goodyear Eagle 1 3R
Pirelli Zero Corsa



Slicks are not DOT approved or built tires.

Slicks are measured differently size wise:

Here are some YOKO sizes:

210x650x18
230x650x18
240x640x18
250x650x18
280x650x18
280x680x18
300x680x18
320x650x18
330x710x18

I doubt you want to mess with these. They require a well dialed in suspension, no moisture on the track surface and have a narrow operating range for internal temps.

Some of my fellow track instructors run left over slicks from Will Turners cars, or other "throw aways" They are chasing laptimes.

If your going to move up in tire performance I suggest a 200 wear tire.

The top three out there are:
Yoko A058
Bridgestone RE71R
BFG Rival 1.5

Very fast, can be used in rain (carefully) and have slip angles and noise feedback that most drivers can work with.


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      03-05-2020, 04:51 PM   #10
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the R7 is still a DOT tire so its not as bad as say a pirelli DH slick from my experience on both of those tires. Just be careful with sudden brake away or slip also be linear with braking and you will be fine
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      03-05-2020, 06:10 PM   #11
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Those are R compound tires. If money doesn't matter and you just want to run them then go for it. They are much more susceptible to heat cycling and you need to bring a pyrometer and adjust pressures and camber to get them to last. If you don't do that you'll burn through them stupid fast and times will fall off due to unbalanced heat and wear. Better off running one of the ~ 200 wear rate tires. They are way more forgiving and will last easily twice as long.
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      03-11-2020, 11:48 AM   #12
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If you’re an experienced track day junkie, go for it if you have the money and NEED to know the fastest you can do on slicks compared to other people. Otherwise I’d say stick with a good track dedicated dot tire like re71 or pilot sport cups. I have a friend who has tracked for years and from time to time he’ll get slicks depending on who he’s playing with but otherwise he gets re71’s.
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      04-09-2020, 12:35 PM   #13
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Agreed with what everyone else has said. I've tracked a lot and done both Max performance summer tires and take-off slicks. The difference is not worth it for me. You'll have 99% of the fun on the street tires and they will last longer and work in the rain.
Also as others have said slicks won't give you any warning that you are approaching the limit (i.e. they are not forgiving if you overstep and don't catch it really quickly). They are happy to scream at you that you screwed up once you've lost it though.
Once you know the limits of the car on street tires you will be able to utilize a slick much better.
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      04-09-2020, 08:23 PM   #14
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I feel like I need to elaborate one more time that a DOT r Compound tire is a completely different animal than a true 'slick"

Tire construction, slip angles, optimal temp range, etc are very different.

I ran some take off Yoko slicks on my EVO X for about 5 track days.

3 at Lime Rock & 2 at NHIS about 7 years ago. My times were faster on the slicks but you better have outstanding car control and a well sorted suspension to appreciate the small improvement in lap times.

I think the biggest difference between a DOT R Compound and a slick is the sidewall. On slicks they are almost a 90 degree square sidewall. On any of the DOT's they have a more rounded edge/forgiving profile. When the tires do exceed their rolling friction limits and transition to sliding friction its like a light switch on slicks. The DOT's all have slightly different personalities but they all are easier to work with at their limits. I've run Kumho's, BFG's, TOYO's. NT01's, and multiple Hoosiers series 6 and 7's over the last 20+ years.

As I have mentioned in other tire threads my go to track tire for HPDE's is the BFG R1. The R1S is for time trials or junkies who have a unlimited amount of $'s to use. The BFG R1 is a 'R Compound" DOT tire. Its very easy to wring out all the mechanical grip this compound has to offer and its got great slip angles and feedback near the limits. They last longer than Hoosiers, and handle heat well. They don't heat cycle out before they run out of rubber. They are faster than any of the 200 wear cheater tires I've been on as well.


I'll go to my R1's after I try my first staggered setup this year. I'm curious to see how the Yoko A052's are vs my R1's in speed and wear...
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      04-12-2020, 03:10 PM   #15
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I found used track tires to be cheaper than the common 200 tw tires...that encouraged me to try a couple sets of them. I went to these used tires from the PSS and didn't find the adjustment too tough. I'd like to try RE71 for my next set, but price may sway me back to the used track tires.
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      04-13-2020, 01:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I feel like I need to elaborate one more time that a DOT r Compound tire is a completely different animal than a true 'slick"

Tire construction, slip angles, optimal temp range, etc are very different.

I ran some take off Yoko slicks on my EVO X for about 5 track days.

3 at Lime Rock & 2 at NHIS about 7 years ago. My times were faster on the slicks but you better have outstanding car control and a well sorted suspension to appreciate the small improvement in lap times.

I think the biggest difference between a DOT R Compound and a slick is the sidewall. On slicks they are almost a 90 degree square sidewall. On any of the DOT's they have a more rounded edge/forgiving profile. When the tires do exceed their rolling friction limits and transition to sliding friction its like a light switch on slicks. The DOT's all have slightly different personalities but they all are easier to work with at their limits. I've run Kumho's, BFG's, TOYO's. NT01's, and multiple Hoosiers series 6 and 7's over the last 20+ years.

As I have mentioned in other tire threads my go to track tire for HPDE's is the BFG R1. The R1S is for time trials or junkies who have a unlimited amount of $'s to use. The BFG R1 is a 'R Compound" DOT tire. Its very easy to wring out all the mechanical grip this compound has to offer and its got great slip angles and feedback near the limits. They last longer than Hoosiers, and handle heat well. They don't heat cycle out before they run out of rubber. They are faster than any of the 200 wear cheater tires I've been on as well.


I'll go to my R1's after I try my first staggered setup this year. I'm curious to see how the Yoko A052's are vs my R1's in speed and wear...

Thanks for offering your perspective / experience. What kind of times were you seeing at LRP with the BFG R1, what was the delta between the R1's and NT01s or RE71s?

I still seem to think the NT01s are the best for HPDE in terms of grip/tire life, if not the outright fastest on a given lap. Need to make a decision soon.
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      04-13-2020, 05:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvas View Post
Thanks for offering your perspective / experience. What kind of times were you seeing at LRP with the BFG R1, what was the delta between the R1's and NT01s or RE71s?

I still seem to think the NT01s are the best for HPDE in terms of grip/tire life, if not the outright fastest on a given lap. Need to make a decision soon.
I don't have any data yet on RE71R's....I don't have my logs right in front of me but the R1's were over a second faster than the NT01's. I do remember turning a 59.xxx on the R1's a LRP a couple times (5+ yrs ago)...Was running 285/30/18's 0n 11" rims with NO downforce, or wings...

The R1's weigh less than the NT01's, don't get greasy and they are a better tire on a heavier car such as ours.

The NT01's will last longer than the R1's, but I'm addicted the R1's now. I just like the balance they offer in wear, heat cycles, tire management and speed. Whichever one you go with will be fun.
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      04-13-2020, 08:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I don't have any data yet on RE71R's....I don't have my logs right in front of me but the R1's were over a second faster than the NT01's. I do remember turning a 59.xxx on the R1's a LRP a couple times (5+ yrs ago)...Was running 285/30/18's 0n 11" rims with NO downforce, or wings...

The R1's weigh less than the NT01's, don't get greasy and they are a better tire on a heavier car such as ours.

The NT01's will last longer than the R1's, but I'm addicted the R1's now. I just like the balance they offer in wear, heat cycles, tire management and speed. Whichever one you go with will be fun.

Hmm...Need to add the R1s as a contender. I have data on RE71s and NT01s (of which the former were about half a second faster at LRP, albeit overheat after a couple hot laps) but no info on R1s.

Thanks for the insight! I've also been running a modestly modded car (2017 MT, coilovers, Camber Plates and RE71/NT01, no engine or aero mods) at sub minute times at LRP. If you find your data, would be interesting to compare. Our group of instructors and info are up on TrackAttack.io, in case you're familiar with that site.
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      04-14-2020, 11:16 PM   #19
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I'm positive the R1's are faster than the RE71R's. They also are much wider :-)

In the 275/35/18's the 71's are Sec width=10.9/Tread width=10.0

The R1's SW 10.9/TW=11.0
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      05-08-2020, 08:37 PM   #20
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You need a lot more camber to run a true slick, like -3.5 or more typically on a BMW. DOT-R compound you can probably get away with -2.75 to -3
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      05-08-2020, 10:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
You need a lot more camber to run a true slick, like -3.5 or more typically on a BMW. DOT-R compound you can probably get away with -2.75 to -3
DOT R Compound tires like about 3.25 to 3.75 depending on springs, sways and bushing setups. On my E36 M3 I ran around 3.6 and it was dialed in perfect. As I mentioned before a DOT R is a BFG R1, a Hoosier R7, etc.

Slicks are for seriously dialed in track cars only and yes, they do like even more camber to go with the 1000lb + spring rates.

Goodyear, Yoko, Dunlop and others make various slick compounds...
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