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      08-24-2019, 10:48 PM   #1
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Bavsound Revenant Amp Upgrade?

Question for the M2 Competition Owners: Has anyone gone in on the Bavsound Revenant Amplifier upgrade for their car maintaining the stock speakers?
I am generally pleased with the stock audio system in my M2C, but was considering the Revenant if it can give me a noticeable improvement in sound and bass. Seems like an easy install. I would appreciate anyone who has upgraded giving a review of the sound compared to the stock stereo.
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      08-24-2019, 10:56 PM   #2
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I considered it but bailed after I learned you can't get the car serviced at the dealer with an aftermarket amp. You'd have to switch it with the stock one each time you go in for any work that requires the car being plugged in to their computer because it will brick the ECU. To me it just seems like too much of a hassle to swap back and forth.
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      08-25-2019, 05:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewc89 View Post
I considered it but bailed after I learned you can't get the car serviced at the dealer with an aftermarket amp. You'd have to switch it with the stock one each time you go in for any work that requires the car being plugged in to their computer because it will brick the ECU. To me it just seems like too much of a hassle to swap back and forth.
You can get the car serviced, you just can't get the car's software flashed fully if it can see the HK amp missing. Having the OEM amp out won't keep you from getting an oil change.

Popping one side of the trunk trim out, swapping the amps, and putting the trim back in, is a 15 minute job max. It is a hassle, but not a huge one.

I tried the Revenant amp. It's a solid choice for anyone that wants to either retain the stock speakers but give them more power or to use Bavsound's drop-ins. The DSP on it is locked out, so using speakers that would need significant tuning from stock won't work with the Revenant. On the other hand, if you aren't a tuning wizard with audio, the thing may just do the trick for you.
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      08-25-2019, 06:21 AM   #4
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I am an engineer with experience in designing amplifiers. You most likely won’t get an audible improvement in quality with a replacement amp, depending on the issue you’re trying to address. Lots of people will tell you otherwise.

If the stock amp grossly distorts when turned up loud and it’s not loud enough for you, then yes, upgrading the amp may help if you can determine its the amp clipping and not the speakers distorting. If so, you should turn it down anyway before you go deaf.

If it’s DSP you want to bypass, then it also might help.

If you think it’s going to give you better audio via lower distortion, it’s dubious. The limiting factor is almost certainly the cheap speakers and acoustics of the environment. The intrinsic distortion of the speakers is going to be an order of magnitude higher than even this stock amplifier produces.

I would say that upgrading the audio in a car like this is tricky. Even upgrading the speakers is not guaranteed to improve things. Without measurement of the environment’s acoustics and design that takes into account these factors, it’s difficult to know.

Still, I’d replace the speakers before the amp, or both together. If the amp is where the DSP is located, if you upgraded the speakers you’d want to know what kind of corrections are applied, and the crossover response. It’s not uncommon for the drivers’ frequency response to be EQd flat by a digital filter, in which case replacing the speaker alone gets you EQ for the wrong speakers.

I guess that’s a long winded way of saying I’d replace both the amp and speakers at the same time or leave it stock.
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      08-25-2019, 06:40 AM   #5
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Thanks Bri and Chris. Exactly the analysis I was hoping for.
I definitely see the point you are making Chris. I’m not dissatisfied with the stock stereo set up as it is now so I think I will wait and see if I want to do the speakers and amp all together as a set in the future.
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      08-25-2019, 08:13 AM   #6
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If installing the aftermarket amp prevents a dealer software update, isn't that a good trick to preserve the software that came with the car — meaning I can still flash a tune onto the ECU and I won't get the new EPS software.
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      08-25-2019, 08:28 AM   #7
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I thought I read in other posts if you installed the ASD bypass harness with a 3rd party amp, that the car’s software could be updated and no error codes would be reported?
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      08-25-2019, 09:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
If installing the aftermarket amp prevents a dealer software update, isn't that a good trick to preserve the software that came with the car — meaning I can still flash a tune onto the ECU and I won't get the new EPS software.
AFAIK they're not just going to update your software for fun each time you pop in for a visit. It usually happens when you get a part replaced or a service done that requires coding, so it becomes mandatory at that point.
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      08-25-2019, 02:54 PM   #9
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I upgraded to the revenant amp only and kept the stock HK speakers. Much more audible mods and highs is what I immediately noticed. Bass also has quite a bit more rumble to it
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      08-25-2019, 04:26 PM   #10
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What happened to just putting a pair of 12" subs in the trunk?
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      08-26-2019, 05:32 AM   #11
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Chris is spot on. If you never turn your volume up very much, just changing the amp won't make much of a difference, but to get significant volume out this system stock does involve going too far up on the volume dial. Every amp adds more distortion as it gets near and past the point of clipping. Replacing the HK amp with a non-DSP amp just removes any filtering/DSP going on in the HK amp and lets you turn the volume dial less to avoid distortion. Adding the Revenant DSP replaces BMW's filtering with BSW's, which may or may not be better.

The under-seat subs certainly do not get enough energy on the stock amp, so that's the only other real advantage of the Revenant amp. I've toyed with the ASD bypass cable and coding it off to determine if there is any, as some folk indicated, bass-boosting going on from the ASD module and it does seem like there's something to it. Bass output drops with the ASD module bypassed. Add that to the weak power to the subs, and it's pretty sad.

One other possible improvement that can be done easily (but won't help with overall volume issues): Disconnect the center speaker. There's no proper up-mixing to surround going on here, it's just a L+R mush that isn't good for channel separation.
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      08-26-2019, 06:52 PM   #12
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There are several threads on improving the sound quality of the M2.

Here's my post:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1641374

You can swap out the amp with a DSP PNP like the Match UP 7, or replace speakers like I did.

If you love low end base get the Match 7 Amp which has a separate line for a sub in the trunk. Buy your preferred sub and have at it leaving the stock HK subs under the seats. Otherwise there won't be much you can do with the under seat woofers. Its the enclosure that limits is acoustics.

Just changing the fronts speakers and unplugging the center speaker is the least expensive way to open up the sound in the car...

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Last edited by SEAT TIME RULES; 01-05-2021 at 01:18 PM..
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      08-28-2019, 02:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I am an engineer with experience in designing amplifiers. You most likely won’t get an audible improvement in quality with a replacement amp, depending on the issue you’re trying to address. Lots of people will tell you otherwise.

If the stock amp grossly distorts when turned up loud and it’s not loud enough for you, then yes, upgrading the amp may help if you can determine its the amp clipping and not the speakers distorting. If so, you should turn it down anyway before you go deaf.

If it’s DSP you want to bypass, then it also might help.

If you think it’s going to give you better audio via lower distortion, it’s dubious. The limiting factor is almost certainly the cheap speakers and acoustics of the environment. The intrinsic distortion of the speakers is going to be an order of magnitude higher than even this stock amplifier produces.

I would say that upgrading the audio in a car like this is tricky. Even upgrading the speakers is not guaranteed to improve things. Without measurement of the environment’s acoustics and design that takes into account these factors, it’s difficult to know.

Still, I’d replace the speakers before the amp, or both together. If the amp is where the DSP is located, if you upgraded the speakers you’d want to know what kind of corrections are applied, and the crossover response. It’s not uncommon for the drivers’ frequency response to be EQd flat by a digital filter, in which case replacing the speaker alone gets you EQ for the wrong speakers.

I guess that’s a long winded way of saying I’d replace both the amp and speakers at the same time or leave it stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Chris is spot on. If you never turn your volume up very much, just changing the amp won't make much of a difference, but to get significant volume out this system stock does involve going too far up on the volume dial. Every amp adds more distortion as it gets near and past the point of clipping. Replacing the HK amp with a non-DSP amp just removes any filtering/DSP going on in the HK amp and lets you turn the volume dial less to avoid distortion. Adding the Revenant DSP replaces BMW's filtering with BSW's, which may or may not be better.

The under-seat subs certainly do not get enough energy on the stock amp, so that's the only other real advantage of the Revenant amp. I've toyed with the ASD bypass cable and coding it off to determine if there is any, as some folk indicated, bass-boosting going on from the ASD module and it does seem like there's something to it. Bass output drops with the ASD module bypassed. Add that to the weak power to the subs, and it's pretty sad.

One other possible improvement that can be done easily (but won't help with overall volume issues): Disconnect the center speaker. There's no proper up-mixing to surround going on here, it's just a L+R mush that isn't good for channel separation.
Some good info here, but I've upgraded all the drivers in my car - see my build thread
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1542089&page=2

I can tell you the stock amp in the M2C is pretty darn good and is actually improved over the OG car. Bass from the Focal subs hits much tighter than the stock units. The overall change was a big improvement at a pretty nominal cost.
Changing amps with these shit speakers is not going to bring NEARLY as much as swapping out the drivers.
Also, adding an amp is complex. You may need to rewire all the speakers in the car and you'll at least need to run power to the amp where ever you put it. I avoided that would very good results. I play Metal, and the system gets plenty loud. I also have a budget audio install thread in the M2 section with all the tips on the install if you want to DIY.
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      08-28-2019, 02:29 PM   #14
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Also check out more detailed stereo pics in my OG thread:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1420878
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      08-28-2019, 09:15 PM   #15
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Running new wire to the speakers would be odd, but stranger things have happened. The only time I've seen it done is on the horrid no-amp "base" systems. There are adapters for the factory wiring harness available out in the wild. Technic could have sold you one with your ASD bypass cable. Anyway, if you want to stay under $1500, you're mostly limited to picking the amp or the speakers, not both, though there are some lower-priced speakers some folk have been happy with.

Folk should do what they are comfortable with, and most of the random folk end up happy enough with their choices. So it all works out.

Oh - one other "run new wires" was someone who ran active to the tweets from an insanely expensive setup.
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      03-29-2020, 10:51 AM   #16
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I cut a small hole to run the amp harness out in to the trunk itself and I just leave the amp sitting in the right cubby corner. I also keep the stock amp in the trunk. This makes the swap a 15 second job. When I was getting my idrive controller replaced they couldn’t update it because of the amp and I told them the stock one was in the trunk and they hooked it up, did the thing, and put my amp back for me.
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      01-04-2021, 06:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I am an engineer with experience in designing amplifiers. You most likely won’t get an audible improvement in quality with a replacement amp, depending on the issue you’re trying to address. Lots of people will tell you otherwise.

If the stock amp grossly distorts when turned up loud and it’s not loud enough for you, then yes, upgrading the amp may help if you can determine its the amp clipping and not the speakers distorting. If so, you should turn it down anyway before you go deaf.

If it’s DSP you want to bypass, then it also might help.

If you think it’s going to give you better audio via lower distortion, it’s dubious. The limiting factor is almost certainly the cheap speakers and acoustics of the environment. The intrinsic distortion of the speakers is going to be an order of magnitude higher than even this stock amplifier produces.

I would say that upgrading the audio in a car like this is tricky. Even upgrading the speakers is not guaranteed to improve things. Without measurement of the environment’s acoustics and design that takes into account these factors, it’s difficult to know.

Still, I’d replace the speakers before the amp, or both together. If the amp is where the DSP is located, if you upgraded the speakers you’d want to know what kind of corrections are applied, and the crossover response. It’s not uncommon for the drivers’ frequency response to be EQd flat by a digital filter, in which case replacing the speaker alone gets you EQ for the wrong speakers.

I guess that’s a long winded way of saying I’d replace both the amp and speakers at the same time or leave it stock.
This, by far, is one of the best and accurate responses I have seen on a forum. Bravo.
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      01-04-2021, 06:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by VA Jay View Post
This, by far, is one of the best and accurate responses I have seen on a forum. Bravo.
Thanks! It's tough because there is so much BS out there in audio. Can't think of a worse industry outside of supplements. Usually speaking the truth gets you crucified by vendors or hardcore audiophiles. Don't get me wrong, I love overkill and definitely want the best quality, but experience and education have tempered my enthusiasm for all sorts of claims.
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      01-05-2021, 11:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Thanks! It's tough because there is so much BS out there in audio. Can't think of a worse industry outside of supplements. Usually speaking the truth gets you crucified by vendors or hardcore audiophiles. Don't get me wrong, I love overkill and definitely want the best quality, but experience and education have tempered my enthusiasm for all sorts of claims.
I respectfully disagree with one part of your previous post. Namely, that changing the factory amp will yield little improvement. I would venture to guess that changing the factory amp with the Bavsound Revenant amp may produce little improvement. Changing it out for a much more capable amp/DSP can give very big improvements. And while it is true that usually, changing the speakers produces the most noticeable improvement in sound quality, I'm not so sure in this case. One of the biggest things you gain from an aftermarket amp/dsp is the DSP. The ability to EQ, time align, adjust levels, etc helps tremendously in improving sound quality in our cars.

I think your budget, goals, DIY skills, and expectations will determine the best path for an audio upgrade.

Yes, there is a good amount of BS in audio, but part of that is just subjectivity; everyone has their own tastes.

As an aside, I never realized the Bavsound amp has the DSP locked. If that's the case, I'd never buy or recommend that amp. That's just idiotic.
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      01-05-2021, 01:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
Some good info here, but I've upgraded all the drivers in my car - see my build thread
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1542089&page=2

I can tell you the stock amp in the M2C is pretty darn good and is actually improved over the OG car. Bass from the Focal subs hits much tighter than the stock units. The overall change was a big improvement at a pretty nominal cost.
Changing amps with these shit speakers is not going to bring NEARLY as much as swapping out the drivers.
Also, adding an amp is complex. You may need to rewire all the speakers in the car and you'll at least need to run power to the amp where ever you put it. I avoided that would very good results. I play Metal, and the system gets plenty loud. I also have a budget audio install thread in the M2 section with all the tips on the install if you want to DIY.
There are at least 3 Plug and Play AMP options for the M2
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      03-21-2021, 03:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Thanks! It's tough because there is so much BS out there in audio. Can't think of a worse industry outside of supplements. Usually speaking the truth gets you crucified by vendors or hardcore audiophiles. Don't get me wrong, I love overkill and definitely want the best quality, but experience and education have tempered my enthusiasm for all sorts of claims.
chris719 These guys may be the ticket for you then: http://www.integralaudio.com.
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      03-21-2021, 03:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSea View Post
Question for the M2 Competition Owners: Has anyone gone in on the Bavsound Revenant Amplifier upgrade for their car maintaining the stock speakers?
I am generally pleased with the stock audio system in my M2C, but was considering the Revenant if it can give me a noticeable improvement in sound and bass. Seems like an easy install. I would appreciate anyone who has upgraded giving a review of the sound compared to the stock stereo.
I have this, and can wholeheartedly recommend it and the company: https://integralaudio.com/soundstage...ies-coupe.html

I've worked in the audio industry for a long time, my standards are high and I understand what is possible and what isn't. I wouldn't consider anything else. I certainly wouldn't consider any piecemeal component replacement of just amplifier or just speakers.

EDIT: also, dealer software updates are not an issue. IA's harness has an extension that allows you to plug the original amp in for service. Easy peasy.
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