[arciga18]

I just wanted to post about how great steering feel is on this car. That is the comment.


Yesterday I took the m2cs out and then drove back the Same route with the e90 and there was a notable difference. Maybe it was the sport plus setting . Istill have a love for the e90 but the steering is better on the m2cs .



Background / previous cars

2011 e90 with hydraulic steering (daily)

- another e90 that i no longer have
- first gen f30
- 2013 e70 sport activity
-g01
-g02
-g05

Before getting the m2cs I was part of the group that said the steering feel on all new bmw sucks when compared to the e90/ e70z

I missed the e70 so much that I spent years lazily trying to find a replacement with an ideal spec (edc from the factory + heated steering wheel)

But I also drove an m2 comp and immediately felt "joy" during an Mtown driving event.

Again I added my bmw car history for context. Maybe there was an M (like the e90 m3???). car along the way that drove great. none of the series cars along the way were remarkable ( I had many different loaners / test drives etc). However I really want to focus on the shift from hydraulic to electric power steering .

Also, I have never driven the 1m (drool).

That is all folks. Thanks for reading .

[sdhotwn]

I've said it a few times on the board. I have an E36 M3 that I use for track days etc. I hop back and forth between that, my M2CS, and my F30 335, and I'd argue that the best steering feel of the three is in the CS. You get a little tricked into "there's numbness there" on the CS because it's so high before the front tires actually start to lose grip or do much past actually steer compared to the E36, but all the vibration, road texture, etc is there. The numbness is just a false sensation because of the linearity of the load up and the amount of grip that is actually available. Brain struggles to adjust.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by arciga18

I just wanted to post about how great steering feel is on this car. That is the comment.


Yesterday I took the m2cs out and then drove back the Same route with the e90 and there was a notable difference. Maybe it was the sport plus setting . Istill have a love for the e90 but the steering is better on the m2cs .



Background / previous cars

2011 e90 with hydraulic steering (daily)

- another e90 that i no longer have
- first gen f30
- 2013 e70 sport activity
-g01
-g02
-g05

Before getting the m2cs I was part of the group that said the steering feel on all new bmw sucks when compared to the e90/ e70z

I missed the e70 so much that I spent years lazily trying to find a replacement with an ideal spec (edc from the factory + heated steering wheel)

But I also drove an m2 comp and immediately felt "joy" during an Mtown driving event.

Again I added my bmw car history for context. Maybe there was an M (like the e90 m3???). car along the way that drove great. none of the series cars along the way were remarkable ( I had many different loaners / test drives etc). However I really want to focus on the shift from hydraulic to electric power steering .

Also, I have never driven the 1m (drool).

That is all folks. Thanks for reading .

Are you saying the M2C was also good in that respect ? Mine is not, nowhere near the level of my E46/E36 M3. I understand though that the M2CS is much better than the M2C as reported in many reviews. Not sure why since i believe the whole steering system is the same... may be the combo lighter wheel/cup tires/CCB that many test cars featured is the reason. Still the same was reported by forums members with standard brakes and PSS tires so unsure what's the reason for the improvement.

[medphysdave]

What setting do you like the best. I noticed sport + seemed to transmit the most feel. Initially I thought the three settings were stiffness based. Not sure if it's placebo or not. I've been impressed with the CS feedback. I perceive that I can feel quite a bit. Combined with the transmission of nvm through the seats and all 4 corners can be identified. The sense of grip is there. My perception of where some of the numbness is compared to the better feeling cars is the size of imperfections that trigger a bump. An example would be stacking quarters. Would you notice if you ran over a quarter on a smooth service or would it take a stack of 2 or 3.

Edit: someone should do the quarter test and report back.

[2020M2Competition]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Are you saying the M2C was also good in that respect ? Mine is not

Ditto

The EPS is one of (if not the) biggest disappointments in my M2C

Someone needs to lend me their M2CS for evaluation

[Romo]

I find the steering very nice, direct, exceptionally initial steering response.

Maybe the CCB and the light rims have a cumulative input on steering input/response

[2020M2Competition]

If there is a substantial difference in steering feel between the M2C and the M2CS it should come primarily from the updated Servotronic programming, the M adaptive suspension and (if equipped) the Cup 2 tires

I would really be interested to hear from M2CS owners who have actually begun to push their cars at the track because, at least in the case of the M2C, steering feel / feedback significantly deteriorates once you start approaching the limits of tire adhesion and is a far cry from the hydraulic systems of days gone by or even EPS systems from other manufacturers

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

If there is a substantial difference in steering feel between the M2C and the M2CS it should come primarily from the updated Servotronic programming, the M adaptive suspension and (if equipped) the Cup 2 tires

I would really be interested to hear from M2CS owners who have actually begun to push their cars at the track because, at least in the case of the M2C, steering feel / feedback significantly deteriorates once you start approaching the limits of tire adhesion and is a far cry from the hydraulic systems of days gone by or even EPS systems from other manufacturers

I track my E36 and plan to track the CS, so I should be able to speak to this. My CS is on PSS for the street and will be on Supercar 3s for the track.

[GregM2C]

I ran my M2C on standard wheels & PSS until the first service when they were swapped for 763M & Cup 2 Connects. There’s a huge difference in the feel since the change. Before it felt ‘dead’ with no real feedback through the wheel, though to be honest it didn’t bother me much because you get so much information through the rest of the car. But now there’s a lot more information through the wheel and the car feels so much more alive and exciting as well as having much better turn in. They don’t even seem that compromised in the cold and wet; ended up having to drive 15 miles through a freak snow storm today and although the car felt a bit vague there was plenty of grip.

TBH I was surprised I got the Connect version of the tyres. Was assuming I’d just get the standard Cup 2 so I was pretty happy with that. Maybe that makes the difference in the wet?

No idea how the steering compares to the CS as I haven’t driven one, but the wheels/tyres do make a big difference to the Competition. Given they did OK in the cold/wet I can’t see myself using anything else.

[ptgltw]

The best steering car I have is an E30 M3 swapped with a LTW engine and a ZHP rack. Glorious combination on and off the track.

The M2 CS isn't far behind and for a modern car I would say is as close to old school feel as one's gonna get.

I can't wait to try the steering in the m2 CS racing though. Just being behind the steering wheel will give it a 1 up on the others.

[cncmastr]

Steering feel in this car is unreal. You get road feedback and the car is incredibly responsive and sharp. If the sound in my CSL'd E46 wasn't so damn amazing, I'd say this car is all around perfect. I think the steering in the CS is sharper than my E46 ZCP (with completely refresh suspension).

[Jimjamz]

I'm driving PSS without CCBs and love the steering feel in this car. I do drive in sports plus throttle with comfort damping and steering. Enjoy the finger tip precision and the feel of the alcantara wheel. They all contribute to the sensory feedback loop - probably helped by the engine responsiveness to throttle inputs.

The steering on the M2 CS is hands down the best M I've had this steering experience with (over the F80 and E60 M5 and certainly over the non M E92). Possibly on par with the E46 though it's been a long time since I drove that car and I'm relying on memories - I do recall also thinking how sweet the steering was at the time.

[2020M2Competition]

Originally Posted by GregM2C

I ran my M2C on standard wheels & PSS until the first service when they were swapped for 763M & Cup 2 Connects. There’s a huge difference in the feel since the change. Before it felt ‘dead’ with no real feedback through the wheel, though to be honest it didn’t bother me much because you get so much information through the rest of the car. But now there’s a lot more information through the wheel and the car feels so much more alive and exciting as well as having much better turn in. They don’t even seem that compromised in the cold and wet; ended up having to drive 15 miles through a freak snow storm today and although the car felt a bit vague there was plenty of grip.

TBH I was surprised I got the Connect version of the tyres. Was assuming I’d just get the standard Cup 2 so I was pretty happy with that. Maybe that makes the difference in the wet?

No idea how the steering compares to the CS as I haven’t driven one, but the wheels/tyres do make a big difference to the Competition. Given they did OK in the cold/wet I can’t see myself using anything else.

My first 2000 miles and 1 track day were on the stock M2C 788M / PSS setup

Steering was decent (but not amazing) since those were mostly pretty gentle street miles, however, by the end of my first track day in the M2C I could definitely tell it felt more and more vague as I started exploring further and further into the limits

The 763M / Cup 2 wheel / tire set was the very first upgrade I made to my M2C along with brake lines, fluid, pads and titanium shims

As you noted, there was a noticeable improvement in steering feel, turn in, grip, etc.

Nevertheless, in spite of the improvements that the wheels and tires made to the car, having been back to the track several times the steering feel still tapers off as I begin approaching the limits

Not something most M2/M2C drivers will notice as their cars will rarely, if ever, leave the public roads, but it is a common complaint among M2/M2C drivers who take their cars to the track

Hopefully, BMW has been able to program some or most of this out in the M2 CS (and hopefully it can be coded to good effect on the M2/M2C)

[Davil]

Yes the steering in this car is amazing. Quite different to the M2C which tunes out all that stuff that the average person may find annoying.

I think it's a lot better than the old hydraulic systems. There's a ton of feel without the old slower rack. It is much more immediate and exciting and is a big part part of what makes every drive in this car an event. They absolutely nailed it.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

Ditto

The EPS is one of (if not the) biggest disappointments in my M2C

Someone needs to lend me their M2CS for evaluation

Can you come to Australia? if so, you can drive mine

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

If there is a substantial difference in steering feel between the M2C and the M2CS it should come primarily from the updated Servotronic programming, the M adaptive suspension and (if equipped) the Cup 2 tires

I would really be interested to hear from M2CS owners who have actually begun to push their cars at the track because, at least in the case of the M2C, steering feel / feedback significantly deteriorates once you start approaching the limits of tire adhesion and is a far cry from the hydraulic systems of days gone by or even EPS systems from other manufacturers

I spent 4+ hours on the 1/2 mile skidpad at Michelin proving grounds shaking down the EPS in the M2C a few days after I bought the car back in September of 2018. I posted a thread here on the board about it. My net from that experience is that approaching/at/over the limits of the front tires, feedback was there (I expected almost none and was surprised) as you could sense the decrease in steering wheel torque as the limits of the tires approached. I did numerous sessions with no drifting and purposely circled the pad passing through and back through peak grip in front. You do need to adapt and learn the info you're being fed, but it's there for the taking. If you step right out of a E90 M3 for example (had that on the pad also), you need to be ready to learn anew to some extent.

Note all the above was of course with DSC fully off...there's no way to evaluate EPS (or any system) using any sort of nanny interfering with the actual car (I say this as an aside since so many people track these cars using aids).

My wife and I were prepared to flip the M2C right off the bat if the EPS wasn't significantly improved from the F3x and OG M2 (it is).

If there is another update to the EPS with the CS, the M2C should be able to code it shortly when it hits the public domain as the hardware is the same (similar to how you can code M4GTS or M4CS steering, LSD programming, tunes, etc into a regular or ZCP M4).

That said, I find the steering too light in any setting when I back-to-back versus my E90 M3. OP, when you say "E90" are you referring to the M3? The M3 has a 12.5:1 special rack compared to the normal E90 16:1 rack (or E90 xdrive 18:1 rack). I think the E90 M3 with its fast and great feedback rack is one of the best I've driven from BMW (I've owned/tracked a lot of them since the early 1970s).

[ChiTownM]

I had the same feeling, just drove my e92M3 over the weekend and immediately could tell that the steering is heavier than the CS in any setting. However, I find the steering in the CS very good, I prefer sport so far but only have 1200 miles on the car. I don't find it numb at all and it feels very direct. I was worried about it a bit buying this car...

My e36 and e46 memories are just that....memories....so I do remember that they were awesome cars and I should've kept them all right?

[CarJunkie]

The steering feedback in my 1M is better, but it is hard to truly compare because the 1M also has camber plates alignment. I remember the overall feel through the steering wheel improving dramatically when the stock rubber upper mounts were replaced with the Vorshlag solid spherical mounts. Anyone have a stock 1M I can borrow?

[yitchard]

I just did the istep then coding for the m2cs steering. Paid someone to do it but the difference is night and day. I was so close to selling the base m2 many times and overnight i love my car.

[CarJunkie]

I have a 1M, although with Ohlins, oversized FSB and -2.8 camber up front…it is razor sharp and very communicative. It is better than the CS. I am pretty sure it was also better stock, but I haven't driven a stock 1M in about 6 years.

My RX8 (formerly my teenage son's newbie track car, now my winter beater) has electric power steering from 2005 which is so good I forgot it's electric. When I bought the car 3 years ago, I asked the dealer to flush the PS fluid for me and they called and told me it's electric. 😂 Now that I am driving it back to back with the CS depending on weather, I can say that the CS is better at communication and sense of direct connection. Hooray for BMW getting it right 15 years later than Mazda. Sadly, the 1M was put up for the winter today (literally) so I will look forward to its glorious rack being available to me again in March.

[chris719]

Regular E90 doesn't have amazing steering feel, so I am not surprised. It is quite synthetic but in a different way than the new EPS. I drove my brother's E90 and E92 many times back to back with my Z4M and they had inferior steering feel with overly heavy weight to try hide that.

[Champ of America]

Originally Posted by 2020M2Competition

If there is a substantial difference in steering feel between the M2C and the M2CS it should come primarily from the updated Servotronic programming, the M adaptive suspension and (if equipped) the Cup 2 tires

I would really be interested to hear from M2CS owners who have actually begun to push their cars at the track because, at least in the case of the M2C, steering feel / feedback significantly deteriorates once you start approaching the limits of tire adhesion and is a far cry from the hydraulic systems of days gone by or even EPS systems from other manufacturers

I've tracked mine and have experienced the C before. Turn in is noticeably sharper at the limit with the CS, feel is definitely better with the Cup 2 over the PSS. Even better if you go to a Supercar 3r, which is, I think, the best track day tire. I'd say to get better steering feel you have to go with Porsche GT products or hydraulic on the 997, but it's the best steering I've felt from BMW.