[chris719]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

I use amsoil 0w40

Why do you think it's overrated?

Have you done any reading on the Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG) forums?

I have never seen a UOA with Amsoil that was better than achieved with M1 0W-40, German Castrol, etc. I just don't see any real evidence their oil is any better than the big players.

If you are not under warranty or don't care about LL01 for warranty purposes, then there are still other better choices I think. I'm sure it is fine and works well, but the specs aren't anything special and the marketing feels like a cult sometimes. Not many race teams use their oil either...

[edycol]

Originally Posted by chris719

Have you done any reading on the Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG) forums?

I have never seen a UOA with Amsoil that was better than achieved with M1 0W-40, German Castrol, etc. I just don't see any real evidence their oil is any better than the big players.

If you are not under warranty or don't care about LL01 for warranty purposes, then there are still other better choices I think. I'm sure it is fine and works well, but the specs aren't anything special and the marketing feels like a cult sometimes. Not many race teams use their oil either...

There are two Amsoil 0W40, AZF and European specific EFO.
AZF has fairly high KV100 for HTHS that it offers (3.76). For example, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 has KV100 12.8 and HTHS 3.88. Since HTHS is the most important value when it comes to wear, it is telling that Amsoil has to go so thick to get to value that other can easily extract from thinner oil. Don't forget golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary.
EFO looks better bcs. KV100 of 13.3 and HTHS of 3.7 is right there with top blenders. But, Noack is 9.9. That is poor result for a blender that claims to be best thing after sliced bread. Interestingly, Noack of AZF is 7.7% which is actually exceptional result, but then KV100 and HTHS values are not as good. Obviously they have issues blending oils on par Mobil1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 as well as Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2.
Pour point of both oils indicate less PAO than in Mobil1 0W40 FS. Amsoil is around-50, while M1 0W40 and Castrol 0W40 API SN version are around -60. Lower pour point indicates more PAO, or as some say here "true synthetics." So yeah, this oil from company that claims to be "tru synthetic " blender, has more Group III than others.
If being "true synthetic " is paramount, High Performance Lubricants is way to go.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

Have you done any reading on the Bob Is The Oil Guy (BITOG) forums?

I have never seen a UOA with Amsoil that was better than achieved with M1 0W-40, German Castrol, etc. I just don't see any real evidence their oil is any better than the big players.

If you are not under warranty or don't care about LL01 for warranty purposes, then there are still other better choices I think. I'm sure it is fine and works well, but the specs aren't anything special and the marketing feels like a cult sometimes. Not many race teams use their oil either...

And what better options are there in the 0w40? I am going to analyze my oil now and then I will do it with the one that the experts say is better.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

And what better options are there in the 0w40? I am going to analyze my oil now and then I will do it with the one that the experts say is better.

I would have to do some research because I’m not running 0w-40. I will run Motul XCess Gen2 5W-40 between dealer changes because I’m under warranty and it’s an easily available LL01 oil.

Castrol Edge 0W-40 or M1 0W-40 should be pretty good though. It’s not that I doubt Amsoil is good, I just haven’t seen any data to justify the claims and price. If I was going to run a boutique oil I’d look at HPL or Redline before Amsoil.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would have to do some research because I’m not running 0w-40. I will run Motul XCess Gen2 5W-40 between dealer changes because I’m under warranty and it’s an easily available LL01 oil.

Castrol Edge 0W-40 or M1 0W-40 should be pretty good though. It’s not that I doubt Amsoil is good, I just haven’t seen any data to justify the claims and price. If I was going to run a boutique oil I’d look at HPL or Redline before Amsoil.

I'd go straight to motul sport or 300v if certifications don't matter anymore. But from what I hear HPL is good stuff.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would have to do some research because I’m not running 0w-40. I will run Motul XCess Gen2 5W-40 between dealer changes because I’m under warranty and it’s an easily available LL01 oil.

Castrol Edge 0W-40 or M1 0W-40 should be pretty good though. It’s not that I doubt Amsoil is good, I just haven’t seen any data to justify the claims and price. If I was going to run a boutique oil I’d look at HPL or Redline before Amsoil.

I just bought mobil1 fs 0w40, after 5,000km I will take it to laboratory and we will make a comparison.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

I just bought mobil1 fs 0w40, after 5,000km I will take it to laboratory and we will make a comparison.

At 5000km interval for street use you can probably use olive oil and be ok Maybe not for track.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

At 5000km interval for street use you can probably use olive oil and be ok Maybe not for track.

Mixed use, track, mountain & street

[F87source]

mobil1 0w40 is a really good oil that is heavy in pao, but I wouldn't use it on a direct injected car because it is really high in SAPS, and that means carbon build up is worsen.

Then again the ams oil was known for being high in SAPS too.

I personally would have went with the castrol 0w40 instead (if I didn't get PPE 5w40/shell helix ultra 5w40), because it too is pao heavy and a really solid oil. But SAPs are minimized so it isn't an issue.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by chris719

At 5000km interval for street use you can probably use olive oil and be ok Maybe not for track.

I go with olive oil unless for track, then I switch to avocado as it's got higher smoke point

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

I'd go straight to motul sport or 300v if certifications don't matter anymore. But from what I hear HPL is good stuff.

300V will oxidize more. I am still waiting results from Polaris on 5,000 mile run on 300V. Pennzoil sent me batch of Euro 5W40 and they did analysis, but I haven't got anything back for a month.
However, much better oils out there is street driving is focus regardless of little track time.
HPL and Amsoil are both suited better for street use than 300V or Sport.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would have to do some research because I'm not running 0w-40. I will run Motul XCess Gen2 5W-40 between dealer changes because I'm under warranty and it's an easily available LL01 oil.

Castrol Edge 0W-40 or M1 0W-40 should be pretty good though. It's not that I doubt Amsoil is good, I just haven't seen any data to justify the claims and price. If I was going to run a boutique oil I'd look at HPL or Redline before Amsoil.

Castrol Edge 0W40 is getting hard to obtain. They also changed formulation and now it is API SP. But from pds I am not that impressed. Pour point is dramatically lower, which means probably drop in PAO. Will see how it looks once it hits market.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by F87source

mobil1 0w40 is a really good oil that is heavy in pao, but I wouldn't use it on a direct injected car because it is really high in SAPS, and that means carbon build up is worsen.

Then again the ams oil was known for being high in SAPS too.

I personally would have went with the castrol 0w40 instead (if I didn't get PPE 5w40/shell helix ultra 5w40), because it too is pao heavy and a really solid oil. But SAPs are minimized so it isn't an issue.

It’s higher but not crazy. Porsche uses it in all DI engines and they don’t even use port injection like Toyota.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

It’s higher but not crazy. Porsche uses it in all DI engines and they don’t even use port injection like Toyota.

That's true, but its better to play on the safer side. So N54 which is known to struggle with carbon build up it is better to stay clear. The N55 (depends on if your car makes alot of blow by or not, as it is extremely variable on these engines) then that should influence your choice here, and for the S55 same thing as the n55.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's true, but its better to play on the safer side. So N54 which is known to struggle with carbon build up it is better to stay clear. The N55 (depends on if your car makes alot of blow by or not, as it is extremely variable on these engines) then that should influence your choice here, and for the S55 same thing as the n55.

If an engine is prone to carbon buildup on the valves, no oil is going to help you combat that problem. In all the s55s I've seen, I've seen many, none had carbon buildup on the valves.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

If an engine is prone to carbon buildup on the valves, no oil is going to help you combat that problem. In all the s55s I've seen, I've seen many, none had carbon buildup on the valves.

Yes it will, oils with lower NOACKS have lower volatility and thus less chance to end up in the PCV gasses. Oils with lower SAPS have a lower chance of causing build up even if they do end up in the PCV gasses.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yes it will, oils with lower NOACKS have lower volatility and thus less chance to end up in the PCV gasses. Oils with lower SAPS have a lower chance of causing build up even if they do end up in the PCV gasses.

I repeat to you, no oil is going to solve the problem of carbon accumulation.
Diesel engine without egr does not accumulate carbon in the valves no matter what oil you put in it, and no matter the mileage.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

I repeat to you, no oil is going to solve the problem of carbon accumulation.
Diesel engine without egr does not accumulate carbon in the valves no matter what oil you put in it, and no matter the mileage.

You're changing your statement once more... Not once did I say oil choices would completely resolve carbon build up.

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

If an engine is prone to carbon buildup on the valves, no oil is going to help you combat that problem.

Notice you say combat the problem of carbon build up, not solve the problem.

In the case of combating carbon build up, yes oil can indeed help if you chose an oil with a low NOACK and low SAPS it can indeed help combat carbon build up. The same thing with quality gasoline and good additives, cleaner burning fuel means less crap in the PCV vapors to cause build up on the valves.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

You're changing your statement once more... Not once did I say oil choices would completely resolve carbon build up.



Notice you say combat the problem of carbon build up, not solve the problem.

In the case of combating carbon build up, yes oil can indeed help if you chose an oil with a low NOACK and low SAPS it can indeed help combat carbon build up. The same thing with quality gasoline and good additives, cleaner burning fuel means less crap in the PCV vapors to cause build up on the valves.

Change the words you don't like to COMBATING without any problem.

To combat the problem, you need to take other measures that have nothing to do with the NOACK and the SAPS of the oil, and for that reason diesel engines do not accumulate carbon in the valves regardless of the oil you are going to use.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

Change the words you don't like to COMBATING without any problem.

To combat the problem, you need to take other measures that have nothing to do with the NOACK and the SAPS of the oil, and for that reason diesel engines do not accumulate carbon in the valves regardless of the oil you are going to use.

I don't think you under stand the difference between combat and eliminate - semantics matter.

From the collins dictionary:

Combat (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...lish/combat:):
3. VERB
If people in authority combat something, they try to stop it happening.
Congress has criticised new government measures to combat crime. [VERB noun]
Synonyms: fight, battle against, oppose, contest

- Notice there are no indications here that the problem must be erradicated. Read the sentence that they provide as well.


Eliminate (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...sh/eliminate):
1. VERB
To eliminate something, especially something you do not want or need, means to remove it completely.


To attempt and stop [or oppose, battle against, contest, etc] the issue from happening, oil choice and thus NOACK and SAPS rating indeed has an impact on trying to stop this issue of carbon build up from happening.

Carbon build up is directly related to the PCV vapors, and that is generated by combustion gasses - which consists of OIL VAPORS (the higher the NOACK the more that will be in this mix, and the more SAPS the more carbon build up becomes an isse) + gasoline vapors. If you can affect one part of that equations then you absolutely can help combat carbon build up. Can you do other things to combat the problem? Sure - oil catch cans help, water injection helps, etc. But saying NOACK ratings and SAPS ratings of oils do not help in this issue demonstrates little understanding of the issue.


Now lets clarify some things, NOACK is a smaller contributor vs. SAPS because oil mist is more likely to be coming through the PCV rather than oil vapor due to volatility. However SAPS is still present in either scenario and these cause valve deposits. it's still a factor nonetheless.



We are not and were not talking about elimination of the problem, which would be completely venting the pcv vapors atmospheric and blocking off the head ports.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

Carbon build up is directly related to the PCV vapors, and that is generated by combustion gasses - which consists of OIL VAPORS (the higher the NOACK the more that will be in this mix, and the more SAPS the more carbon build up becomes an isse) + gasoline vapors. If you can affect one part of that equations then you absolutely can help combat carbon build up. Can you do other things to combat the problem? Sure - oil catch cans help, water injection helps, etc. But saying NOACK ratings and SAPS ratings of oils do not help in this issue demonstrates little understanding of the issue.


Now lets clarify some things, NOACK is a smaller contributor vs. SAPS because oil mist is more likely to be coming through the PCV rather than oil vapor due to volatility. However SAPS is still present in either scenario and these cause valve deposits. it's still a factor nonetheless.



We are not and were not talking about elimination of the problem, which would be completely venting the pcv vapors atmospheric and blocking off the head ports.

A lot of text.... and you still don't understand why carbon accumulates in the valves. theory I see that you know but you keep affirming that this accumulation is due to pcv, diesel engines also have pcv and do not accumulate carbon with any oil.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

A lot of text.... and you still don't understand why carbon accumulates in the valves. theory I see that you know but you keep affirming that this accumulation is due to pcv, diesel engines also have pcv and do not accumulate carbon with any oil.

lol ok there buddy, seems like you are the only one that "knows" anything - despite being proven wrong for the last 2 pages of this thread.