[aerobat]

I actually went out tried this to be sure. (because I haven't seen this as a problem during the 6500km I have driven so far).
I did not try in comfort because throttle is electronically softened in comfort mode.
If I floor it:
At 1500-2500rpm I will notice a short lag
At 2500-2800rpm hmm, maybe some very minor
over 3000rpm there is no lag, response instance

In practical driving you will not really notice this. Why? because like others said you don't floor an M2 at 1500rpm, you will change gear.
Exactly the same as I did in my 911 non Turbo of the simple reason that power is not enough.
I have a DCT, I have driven manual several times and it is slightly more noticable there.

[chalbs]

Originally Posted by aerobat

I actually went out tried this to be sure. (because I haven't seen this as a problem during the 6500km I have driven so far).
I did not try in comfort because throttle is electronically softened in comfort mode.
If I floor it:
At 1500-2500rpm I will notice a short lag
At 2500-2800rpm hmm, maybe some very minor
over 3000rpm there is no lag, response instance

In practical driving you will not really notice this. Why? because like others said you don't floor an M2 at 1500rpm, you will change gear.
Exactly the same as I did in my 911 non Turbo of the simple reason that power is not enough.
I have a DCT, I have driven manual several times and it is slightly more noticable there.

I agree with the rpm ranges and feel here. I have 6500 miles on the clock on my 17 manual M2. I drive it daily to work (15 mi, via interstate and back roads). I drive in Sport+ and have no problem laying down power in my commute when I'm in the 2k-4k rev range. To put it in perspective, I have another car that I can drive daily, but the M2 is getting all the smiles and miles as my daily.

Overall, the lag isn't enough for me to care because the car is simply so much fun to drive.

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by aerobat

I actually went out tried this to be sure. (because I haven't seen this as a problem during the 6500km I have driven so far).
I did not try in comfort because throttle is electronically softened in comfort mode.
If I floor it:
At 1500-2500rpm I will notice a short lag
At 2500-2800rpm hmm, maybe some very minor
over 3000rpm there is no lag, response instance

In practical driving you will not really notice this. Why? because like others said you don't floor an M2 at 1500rpm, you will change gear.
Exactly the same as I did in my 911 non Turbo of the simple reason that power is not enough.
I have a DCT, I have driven manual several times and it is slightly more noticable there.

I pretty much agree with this summary. I have a 6MT MY16.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Motivate

I see, so it's a fun car on the track but drives like any ol car as a daily driver with moderate traffic (shifting below 4k). Is that a fair thing to say?

Yup 100% that in Comfort

[Motivate]

Originally Posted by aerobat

I actually went out tried this to be sure. (because I haven't seen this as a problem during the 6500km I have driven so far).
I did not try in comfort because throttle is electronically softened in comfort mode.
If I floor it:
At 1500-2500rpm I will notice a short lag
At 2500-2800rpm hmm, maybe some very minor
over 3000rpm there is no lag, response instance

In practical driving you will not really notice this. Why? because like others said you don't floor an M2 at 1500rpm, you will change gear.
Exactly the same as I did in my 911 non Turbo of the simple reason that power is not enough.
I have a DCT, I have driven manual several times and it is slightly more noticable there.

Thanks! So not as bad as 4500 rpm as some have said.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Motivate

Thanks! So not as bad as 4500 rpm as some have said.

I stand by what I said. I can tell the difference in responsiveness at 3k vs 4k+

Maybe my M2 behaves differently.... I can't say, but it's what I notice on mine when being honest. That being said I don't feel like the car is sluggish in general on regular roads. It's a fun car and always look forward to driving it.

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by akkando

I stand by what I said. I can tell the difference in responsiveness at 3k vs 4k+

Maybe my M2 behaves differently.... I can't say, but it's what I notice on mine when being honest. That being said I don't feel like the car is sluggish in general on regular roads. It's a fun car and always look forward to driving it.

Isn't that because overboost kicks in as well ?
I kind of notice 2 things, in comfort mode there will be significantly more lag, partially due to "smoother" throttle response design.
In sport+ it's kind of hard to notice
In all modes at 3.5 4k rpm there is an additional "kick" feel but for me it's different from the turbo lag which would happen at 2k ish, so in my mind i've always thought that could be the overboost.

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by akkando

I stand by what I said. I can tell the difference in responsiveness at 3k vs 4k+

Maybe my M2 behaves differently.... I can't say, but it's what I notice on mine when being honest. That being said I don't feel like the car is sluggish in general on regular roads. It's a fun car and always look forward to driving it.

Are you sure you aren't noticing the overboost function instead?

Turbo lag is pretty even all around, but when the overboost kicks on (which it does at that range) you will feel a slight 'burst' as it speeds up the turbo.

[Transcon]

Originally Posted by Ktmdriver

I'm glad I'm not the only one who almost wiped out in the 930, considering I was a lot younger when I had that and more brave !

Question on the Dinan S1. I really did not want to mod my M2 as the car is great bone stock. I considered an exhaust, but hear some horror stories, rattles, droning, Bluetooth problems, more noise with no power increase, etc . Most of the exhausts don't net that much more power for the money and just create more noise and attract attention, not bad if that's your thing, but the S1 Dinan mod for $1,500 seems like money well spent.

That being said, did you do the install yourself? And does it void the vehicle warranty if done by the end user ? Do you know what Dinan charges to install it if you didn't?

I agree that the M2 is great as it comes out of the box but since when has that stoped us? I did the whole Dinan S1 package as I figured for once I'd just spend the cash and do it all. Very happy with how it came out and am glad in my decision to go Dinan. I read the same posts before I did it (its expensive, doesn't give as much perceived power as JB4, ect) but had to put some trust into the history Dinan has working with BMW.

Though I did the whole package Ill answer your question of just the exhaust. It has a deeper tone than stock and looks a hell of a lot better in my opinion. No rattles that I have heard and I cannot find anything I don't like. Like you, I don't wish to wake the dead with my exhaust note but do like listening to the music that the engine plays when accelerating. A bit more downshift popping but not much more than I was getting from the stock setup and for some reason even that sounds better. I chose to not do the Dinan resonator delete at this time but have heard those that have and agree it gives an even deeper tone....again I was looking for subtile quality. I had EAS install it, along with the entire package, and they gave me a great deal to do so. Not doubting that I could install myself but I figured having it done by an authorized shop further insulates me if there are any issues that come up that require the Dinan warranty to be activated. Seeming as you are local, call up Kevin @ EAS and ask him about doing the install. If you decide to venture up the the OC let me know and Ill meet up with you if Im around.

Cheers

[ClothSeats]

There is definitely a midrange surge. So in that sense it's a bit harder to finesse on track vs a more linear N/A engine. But in street driving it doesn't matter. Fun, even.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

Are you sure you aren't noticing the overboost function instead?

Turbo lag is pretty even all around, but when the overboost kicks on (which it does at that range) you will feel a slight 'burst' as it speeds up the turbo.

I don't think so, I would describe it as instantly responsive like a hair trigger rather than some kind of kick or burst feeling.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Motivate

So the consensus seems to be that more lag will be felt in manual. Basically drive the car like an M car should be driven at all times to minimize felt lag.

Ugh... go drive the M235....

As noted, there are differences here between throttle response and turbo lag. I can say this, the BMW 3L turbo is an amazing engine and there really is no "lag' in daily driving ESPECIALLY WITH STICK.

My 650GC? That had lag - well actually it had a lazy trans that didn't like to downshift - and that came off as lag.

My V10 M5? That thing made zero torque until the RPMs got up there - the M2 is far more driveable in the city.

Go drive the M235 and you will see.

[pissclams]

It's funny, people used to complain about the (lack of) low end torque of the S65 engine.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by pissclams

It's funny, people used to complain about the (lack of) low end torque of the S65 engine.

They still complain about it - because it has none

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by akkando

I don't think so, I would describe it as instantly responsive like a hair trigger rather than some kind of kick or burst feeling.

Burst (dictionary definition): a short, sudden, and intense effort.

Seems like we're talking about the same thing. The overboost kicks on all of a sudden, without any notice. My guess is that this is probably what you're feeling, since (if memory serves me right) the overboost triggers around 4K rpm.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by akkando

Yeah so typically I would only really notice the turbo lag if coasting at like 2k-3k rpm and then flooring it, but if I wanted to get going I would down shift anyway then I don't notice so much. Downshifting is fun! It's fun for me as a daily driver, but I was coming from an 04 Mazda 3 so..... my base for comparison might be different than most M2 drivers.

If coasting at about 4k+ rpm and then you put your foot down the power is just instantly there.

If OP were to drive an M2, I will say in comfort mode the gas pedal is awfully squishy and makes the car feel sluggish so I would suggest judging in Sport or Sport+.

This pretty much summarizes it for me. It is not NA, but as turbo engines go it is pretty darned nice. You just have to drive it like a turbocharged engine.

PS I only drive in Comfort until the engine is warmed up .

[pissclams]

Originally Posted by doug_999

They still complain about it - because it has none

I love the way it drives and it's high revving back end.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by pissclams

I love the way it drives and it's high revving back end.

It is an amazing engine - especially if you live in an area where you can use it. I don't unfortunately live in that type of area and therefore that engine (along with its bigger V10 brother) would/was be a constant let down for me on my daily drive. I so missed the torque my 550 had (not a tremendous amount more, but had it at a much lower rev).

I guess, back to the OP comments - I grew up with turbos that had LAG - bad. Supra's that were modified - where you were always waiting for the RPM to get up there before you got going (similar to your engine - just a lot less linear). With the N54 and N55 engines however, I feel like they have basically no lag based on that - in short, I'm never "waiting" for the power in the M2 (and my 1M) and yes, I realize the turbo tech is different between those two.

[XutvJet]

I cannot speak directly to the M2, but I have owned my stock 6MT M235 since February 2016. I also test drove an 8AT M235. Prior to my M235, I had a 2012 WRX for 3.5 years and it had a basic tune. I would expect the M2 6MT and DCT to drive very similar to the M235 in terms of power delivery seeing that the M2's N55 only makes around 25whp/35wtq more than the M235 and both N55's have the same power band/delivery characteristics, peak power rpm points, etc.

Yes, the 6MT does have some lag; however, it very manageable and minimal. If you're in a tall gear (4th+) and at a low rpm (i.e., below 3000rpms), the lag is most apparent, especially at tip-in and moderate throttle. Remember, a turbo is load-based device and turbo engines have three personalities: 1) No boost, essentially naturally aspirated, 2) partial boost under moderate throttle, and 3) full boost under full throttle. The harder you push the throttle, the more load you put on the turbo, the more boost it will make (to a point). BMW has gone to great lengths to make it's turbo motors behave like a torquey naturally aspirated motor, especially the N55 and B58 motors. However, there's no getting around some level of turbo lag, especially in a manual.

Automatics and DCTs shift so fast that they do not loose boost between the shifts. That's a huge advantage. In most turbo manuals, there is significant boost loss between the shifts thus some momentary lag. If you shift these cars slowly during a full throttle run, you will experience turbo lag on the shift. However, I've noticed with my M235 that BMW has employed some sort of wizardy in DSC OFF and Sport+ where hardly any boost is lost on a full throttle, fast shifts assuming the shift occurs above ~6300rpms. Verified with my Torque app, I only loose about 2psi on the shift. Because boost is mostly held, the shift can feel rather seamless. I've never experienced this in a another turbo car before except those that have "no lift shift" capability. In my M235, I am momentarily lifting off the throttle on the shift. With my WRX, the boost loss and lag between the shifts was apparent.

Around town, I find the lag to be minimal and nothing comparable to what my WRX felt like. The WRX had a turbo power delivery reminiscent of the 1990s-era turbos where there was a good bit of lag under 3500rpms and then a big charge to around 6000rpms. My 6MT M235 is nothing like that. The powerband is very refined and that wiff of lag makes things more exciting and pronounced, IMO. I want my turbo cars to feel somewhat turbocharged. I don't want them to behave like a light switch, either on or off, but I do want it to have some turbo character. I don't find myself having to drive around the lag like I did with my WRX. The M235 auto I drove had almost non-existent lag thus made things a bit boring.

With respect to the Comfort vs Sport throttles, I'm convinced that the DME learns your driving style over time. I drive around in the Comfort throttle all the time now (6 months now). Prior to that, it was in the Sport throttle because the car felt too laggy with the Comfort throttle. That is not the case anymore. I find the throttle and power delivery to be for more linear, consistent, and controllable with the Comfort throttle and it isn't remotely laggy as I remembered. Also, I drive almost entirely in DSC OFF unless the roads are crap or conditions are wet, etc. DSC OFF is BY FAR the best mode. Drive around in that mode and you realize just how much the nannies hold back the handling and power in the other modes, especially the modes that don't allow for any wheel spin. In DSC OFF, I find that the lag minimized. The car feels free and muscular.

Lastly, in hotter and more humid conditions, the lag is more apparent. Less oxygen in the air and more heat soak = longer spool times. The overall peak power is generally same, but turbo lag is greater.

[arwin]

Turbo lag, throttle response lag, overboost kicking in....my head is spinning. lol

Before getting into my M2, I had a 135i and then an F30 335xi.

Coming from my 135i, that was great freaking car. Couldn't really complain about it except there was something off about the design of the body shaping. In the end, it was written off when some guy decided he'd use my car to stop his car. Mind you, I only had the car for about 6 months.

I then jumped into an F30 335xi, hoping that most of the experience in the 135i would be in the 335xi with all wheel drive. I was disappointed with what I was feeling when driving it. It felt sluggish and I thought that it needed more low end torque. I thought perhaps I needed to tune it to get some more torque and power since it was a bigger/heavier car with AWD. I ended up adding the Dinan Stage 2 kit for it. Once I picked it up, there was still something to be desired on the low end.

This past spring, I was driving the F30 and I floored it a few times and I noticed that when the RPM's got up in the rev band (5K+), the car felt wicked fast, but I normally wouldn't be driving in the rev band most of the time. Just a little something that I noticed but I still decided to upgrade to the M2 since my lease was coming up anyway.

I just picked up my M2 last week and I'm loving everything about it. I did notice something today though. In the low end, the power delivery is pretty good, but again, once it gets up on the rev band, it just makes it feel like I'm stopping time. lol. I'm assuming it's the overboost kicking in.

Now, all this time in my F30, I thought the car needed more torque (which baffled me since it was supposed to have a ton of low end torque, esp with the Dinan Stage 2), but based on what I've read in this thread and upon further review...maybe it was just that the turbo needed to spool in order to get that instant response from the accelerator?

Like I said, I'm loving every bit of my M2 right now...but if I wanted to have that instant response even at the lower rpm's, I'm reading that the first thing that I should do is get a down pipe and then if I really wanted, upgrade the intercooler.

Is my understanding correct? Learn something new everyday if it is!

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by arwin

Coming from my 135i, that was great freaking car. Couldn't really complain about it except there was something off about the design of the body shaping. In the end, it was written off when some guy decided he'd use my car to stop his car. Mind you, I only had the car for about 6 months.

YES! Somehow the 1M looks so much better and it is basically the same - not sure if it is the flares or what (and no, the 1M is still not a pretty car )

Originally Posted by arwin

I then jumped into an F30 335xi, hoping that most of the experience in the 135i would be in the 335xi with all wheel drive. I was disappointed with what I was feeling when driving it. It felt sluggish and I thought that it needed more low end torque. I thought perhaps I needed to tune it to get some more torque and power since it was a bigger/heavier car with AWD. I ended up adding the Dinan Stage 2 kit for it. Once I picked it up, there was still something to be desired on the low end.
Is my understanding correct? Learn something new everyday if it is!

Every time I have driven an F30, I can't believe how slow it "feels". Maybe it is the size of the car? I dunno, but I share your experience - the car feels slow. The E90 was completely different.

And since the F30 you probably had and the M2 both use the same motor (minus the overboost) - and are not that far apart in weight - it makes no sense that one feels so much better.

But it does. TREMENDOUSLY better.

[AngryBaby]

Originally Posted by arwin

Turbo lag, throttle response lag, overboost kicking in....my head is spinning. lol

Before getting into my M2, I had a 135i and then an F30 335xi.

Coming from my 135i, that was great freaking car. Couldn't really complain about it except there was something off about the design of the body shaping. In the end, it was written off when some guy decided he'd use my car to stop his car. Mind you, I only had the car for about 6 months.

I then jumped into an F30 335xi, hoping that most of the experience in the 135i would be in the 335xi with all wheel drive. I was disappointed with what I was feeling when driving it. It felt sluggish and I thought that it needed more low end torque. I thought perhaps I needed to tune it to get some more torque and power since it was a bigger/heavier car with AWD. I ended up adding the Dinan Stage 2 kit for it. Once I picked it up, there was still something to be desired on the low end.

This past spring, I was driving the F30 and I floored it a few times and I noticed that when the RPM's got up in the rev band (5K+), the car felt wicked fast, but I normally wouldn't be driving in the rev band most of the time. Just a little something that I noticed but I still decided to upgrade to the M2 since my lease was coming up anyway.

I just picked up my M2 last week and I'm loving everything about it. I did notice something today though. In the low end, the power delivery is pretty good, but again, once it gets up on the rev band, it just makes it feel like I'm stopping time. lol. I'm assuming it's the overboost kicking in.

Now, all this time in my F30, I thought the car needed more torque (which baffled me since it was supposed to have a ton of low end torque, esp with the Dinan Stage 2), but based on what I've read in this thread and upon further review...maybe it was just that the turbo needed to spool in order to get that instant response from the accelerator?

Like I said, I'm loving every bit of my M2 right now...but if I wanted to have that instant response even at the lower rpm's, I'm reading that the first thing that I should do is get a down pipe and then if I really wanted, upgrade the intercooler.

Is my understanding correct? Learn something new everyday if it is!

Or downshift...