[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Congratulations ��. Jealousy runneth over. I'm curious about the rebuild cost so I hope you get a quote and share. Even though I wasn't going to buy these I still ran through the scenarios. I decided I would have them rebuilt so I knew where I was starting from. What if one blows early, etc. Suspension work is not my favorite. I'd want to install it once and not worry about for as long as possible.

Inertia labs told me is $840 to rebuild all corners.

I might regret not have them rebuild and like you said knowing where I am starting but going to take a chance. According to PO they have 10k miles and about 7 track days, this is not a lot so I sure hope that they will last a lot more than this or they will become a pain to own. Taking them out, sending to rebuild then having them put back and another track alignment could get expensive. Hopefully by the time they will need a rebuild I will have my garage built and I can just remove themself and send them out and then its just an alignment away.

[OG Shark]

Nice pickup MooMooM2 hope you enjoy them. Should still have a decent amount of life in them with that level of usage so far. If you need anything / have any questions definitely feel free to ask.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Nice pickup MooMooM2 hope you enjoy them. Should still have a decent amount of life in them with that level of usage so far. If you need anything / have any questions definitely feel free to ask.

thank you OG Shark I appreciate it. I really can't wait. This is my first ever coilover and going straight to such a good one is most likely going to blow my mind. Also its nice to know the car will just be better both just driving around but also on the track.

Seller is also including some stiffer rear springs and at first I thought I would go with those right away since I will mostly be driving it on the track but have decided to just start with the kit you speced and go from there

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

thank you OG Shark I appreciate it. I really can't wait. This is my first ever coilover and going straight to such a good one is most likely going to blow my mind. Also its nice to know the car will just be better both just driving around but also on the track.

Seller is also including some stiffer rear springs and at first I thought I would go with those right away since I will mostly be driving it on the track but have decided to just start with the kit you speced and go from there

I had forgotten he later moved to stiffer rears. I like the idea of starting with the 140 (800) too though and hanging on to the 180 (1000) (if I remember correctly that was what he bumped up to). See how you like that setup first and go from there. Enjoy and I always appreciate feedback - positive, negative, neutral - all of it helps!

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

I bought the kit from the classifieds. Pretty excited to have it put on before next season starts. Currently have stock suspension with tckline camber plates, was just going to go tckline coilovers but I know these are going to be next level.

Congrats. I’m excited to hear your feedback too. I read another review of these NTR R1 units recently by a guy who only ran TTX prior and he had the best quote, “The mark of an exceptional motorsport damper is one that you forget is there.”

3 weeks of daily duty in and that really resonates. The car is just immensely improved and the R1s just fade into the background. No concessions or “because racecar” moments. Can’t wait to get them on track and enjoy them to their full potential soon.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Congrats. I’m excited to hear your feedback too. I read another review of these NTR R1 units recently by a guy who only ran TTX prior and he had the best quote, “The mark of an exceptional motorsport damper is one that you forget is there.”

3 weeks of daily duty in and that really resonates. The car is just immensely improved and the R1s just fade into the background. No concessions or “because racecar” moments. Can’t wait to get them on track and enjoy them to their full potential soon.

I will surely appreciate that. Although I mostly just track the car I have been loving to try and go to different tracks and last year ended up going to a track that was 5 hours away, other that was over 2 instead of just sticking to my home track which is about an hour away. next season already have a couple days planned and one of the tracks is 3 and half hours away. I don't trailer the car so I have to get there, so hearing that these are fantastic on the street is music to my ears, being able to have it all ahha that is fantastic. I agree when you said on your first post about the stock suspension, it is actually pretty balanced on track, the same can't be said about on the street. I have actually enjoyed the car on the track even being stock but I have noticed places where could be majorly improved and this is what I am looking for. I look forward to your impressions on the track because you came from TCKline which was what I was set on, I already got the camber plates from him so was just going to get the rest of the stuff. I am sure would be already night and day from stock but you are not the first person that had the urge to upgrade to something else rather quickly, I think actually the member that sold these to me was on TCK and upgraded to these as well

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

I will surely appreciate that. Although I mostly just track the car I have been loving to try and go to different tracks and last year ended up going to a track that was 5 hours away, other that was over 2 instead of just sticking to my home track which is about an hour away. next season already have a couple days planned and one of the tracks is 3 and half hours away. I don't trailer the car so I have to get there, so hearing that these are fantastic on the street is music to my ears, being able to have it all ahha that is fantastic. I agree when you said on your first post about the stock suspension, it is actually pretty balanced on track, the same can't be said about on the street. I have actually enjoyed the car on the track even being stock but I have noticed places where could be majorly improved and this is what I am looking for. I look forward to your impressions on the track because you came from TCKline which was what I was set on, I already got the camber plates from him so was just going to get the rest of the stuff. I am sure would be already night and day from stock but you are not the first person that had the urge to upgrade to something else rather quickly, I think actually the member that sold these to me was on TCK and upgraded to these as well

Yes he was. We talked about the Nitron's for awhile before he ultimately decided to go with the TCK. Shortly after he asked if he could meet us at our local track to compare them against the Nitron R1 that was on my M2C at the time (he lives a few hours away but would be in the area). I'm not going to get into the details of what he was not happy about with them as I don't feel that is my place to say - but can say he bought the R1 kit that MooMooM2 just picked up that day and ran them until moving on from that car.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

Inertia labs told me is $840 to rebuild all corners.

Good to know. Super reasonable to get em back fully refreshed ready for another couple years of action.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Good to know. Super reasonable to get em back fully refreshed ready for another couple years of action.

yeah I thought was too.

Also I emailed them end of the day and they got to me within hours. Now I have never done business with them so can't comment on that but so far just talking to them over email i can tell that they know how to run customer service. This is great to hear because I have heard less stellar things about getting some coil overs rebuild from MCS or KW amongst others.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

yeah I thought was too.

Also I emailed them end of the day and they got to me within hours. Now I have never done business with them so can't comment on that but so far just talking to them over email i can tell that they know how to run customer service. This is great to hear because I have heard less stellar things about getting some coil overs rebuild from MCS or KW amongst others.

I'm going to go way off topic, but you left me an in by mentioning KW. Why are they so popular. Only suspension you really see reviews on and best I can tell it's a mid grade product. Im referring to kwv3. I'm wondering if it's price point. While searching you tube for suspension education material I never see an recent info on the higher end names for BMWs

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm going to go way off topic, but you left me an in by mentioning KW. Why are they so popular. Only suspension you really see reviews on and best I can tell it's a mid grade product. Im referring to kwv3. I'm wondering if it's price point. While searching you tube for suspension education material I never see an recent info on the higher end names for BMWs

maybe I am wrong but probably because its a legendary brand, everyone has heard of KW and they have been at it for ever. They make a good product and trusted so much that BMW decided to have them make the m performance coilover. KW v3 is priced appropriately, similar to Ohlins road and track, at that price point what else is there to choose from? Bilstein maybe which is a bit cheaper, then TCKline which is not a known brand unless enthusiast. KW does have a higher end coilover which I bet is similar to MCS, Nitron, JRZ, ect...

I think most of the youtube crowd gets coil overs so they can drop their car and have perfect fitment so they are not going to want to spend the extra 1-2k for a motorsport coilover, the KWv3s will let them get the look, will ride better and more sporty and that will do it.

However when you talk to anyone that has any track experience they will not be recommending that. The first time I ever heard of MCS was when I was talking to this guy that owns a shop that does a lot of builds, was currently building himself a e46 m3 track car and we were talking about suspension and I told him what my plans were and he immediately told, skip whatever I told him and just get MCS and thats when i started looking into nicer suspensions (of course its easy to just want the best but I do have a budget and this is why I was going with TCKline and MCS, or Nitron was even in the plans)

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm going to go way off topic, but you left me an in by mentioning KW. Why are they so popular.

Because they tend to be more comfortable (people say this about TCK too)? Their twin tube design tends to be more comfortable due to lower gas pressure and low compression force (typical of twin tube architecture). A lot of rebound bias though means they bottom out more easily.

[MooMooM2]

Got the Nitrons installed this week, going for a aligment on tuesday. Not going to lie, I am pretty impressed so far even without the alignment and I have not even yet started playing with the rebound/damping. I am not sure what is set at right now (whatever PO had it) and on a road yesterday got a bit bouncy but then today that was gone and on nice windy roads around my house it behaved pretty incredible, could easily carry more speed. Not going to push it too much and track season starts next month.

I do have a question for OG Shark and ThreeStripes and whoever else has these in their car. What aligment settings should I aim for? Obviously there is no exact answer but be nice to have a basis to tell the alignment shop. Camber was thinking 3 in front and 2 in the back. What about toe? anything specific I should tell the alignment shop?

[ThreeStripes]

I run roughly what ZM2 does which is close but not exactly what OG Shark recommends iirc.

-3.5 and -2.5 rear camber
.04 total toe up front and .26 total toe in the rear
For caster I had them even out the front which was staggered from factory about a degree L|R up front to around 8*

Camber and toe can get adjusted from there to taste basically imo.

Glad you’re enjoying them. I get them on track for the first time on 2/18 so I’ll have an update for this thread with feedback soon. Can’t wait

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

anything specific I should tell the alignment shop?

Tell them you’re particular about the steering wheel being perfectly straight. These cars have such sensitive on center steering if the tech doesn’t fucking nail the steering wheel centering and get it locked in place it’s going to drive you crazy when your wheel is .04* off

[MooMooM2]

Thank you!

Yeah of center wheel will drive me insane. I am definitely very particular about that. Funny enough right now as it stands its perfectly straight. I will make sure I tell them to keep it that way.

Interesting on the camber, I was going to start with 3 up front but maybe I should do more, the car does not see a lot of street miles and would love to get good wear on the track. Right now its set at aprox 3.2 which is what PO had it as and we left it like that.

I will let them know about the front and rear toe so thank you for those numbers!

Can’t wait to hear your impressions on the upcoming track day, thats coming up soon! I actually have a car control clinic the day before so actually will put em to test kinda, just be sliding around a lot, specially if there is snow on the ground

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

I run roughly what ZM2 does which is close but not exactly what OG Shark recommends iirc.

-3.5 and -2.5 rear camber
.04 total toe up front and .26 total toe in the rear
For caster I had them even out the front which was staggered from factory about a degree L|R up front to around 8*

Camber and toe can get adjusted from there to taste basically imo.

Glad you’re enjoying them. I them on track for the first time on 2/18 so I’ll have an update for this thread with feedback soon. Can’t wait



Tell them you’re particular about the steering wheel being perfectly straight. These cars have such sensitive on center steering if the tech doesn’t fucking nail the steering wheel centering and get it locked in place it’s going to drive you crazy when your wheel is .04* off

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

Thank you!

Yeah of center wheel will drive me insane. I am definitely very particular about that. Funny enough right now as it stands its perfectly straight. I will make sure I tell them to keep it that way.

Interesting on the camber, I was going to start with 3 up front but maybe I should do more, the car does not see a lot of street miles and would love to get good wear on the track. Right now its set at aprox 3.2 which is what PO had it as and we left it like that.

I will let them know about the front and rear toe so thank you for those numbers!

Can’t wait to hear your impressions on the upcoming track day, thats coming up soon! I actually have a car control clinic the day before so actually will put em to test kinda, just be sliding around a lot, specially if there is snow on the ground

Get into those adjustments for sure! Easy to change and you really can go no wrong there. Say they turned up a bit too much for your taste on the street all it takes is a couple of minutes and can have all four corners adjusted easily. For the street right now I would take all four corners down to the softest setting and then come back 4 or so. Test and go from there. That is about the street sweet spot for me but some like a bit more & being how easy they are to adjust can quickly zero in on your preferred settings. Track I would start with the opposite - 4 or so from full stiff all four corners and start from there.

ThreeStripes has you on the right track with the alignment. If the priority is track I would definitely start around 3.5 front. In the rear I personally run a little less at 2.0 to 2.2. These are for my street cars that prioritize track performance while still seeing street time. I may increase from there on track dedicated and/or competition. Toe will vary depending on my tire setup from 0 to 0.40 total toe out depending on the setup. Rear typically falls in the 0.20 total in range. Aggressive toe is the tire killer though so again I'm usually going for one lap pace when in the 0.40 total out front range. A lot of people like neutral to a hint of toe out in the front as the tire will definitely wear better. Maximum caster you can get keeping the sides even.

Best way to really dial this in for your car and your usage is a probe pyrometer. You have to be quick on the check though and come in hot and read asap. These numbers though should get you really close and tire wear patterns can really help to see what is happening too.

[MooMooM2]

OG Shark Do you happen to know what torque the M6 bolts on the camber plates need to be torqued to? The ones I got are all chewed so I had to buy some new ones but want to make sure when I finally get the alignment done they don't go ham on the bolts like whoever installed these before did. To be fair these are tiny bolts compared to other camber plates I have seen.

[ThreeStripes]

Brief update after my first track time on these:

They solved all the issues I was having with the TCK SA/DA kit. So, cue the mission accomplished banner.

In addition to being a perfect fix for the limitations I had found with the prior kit, I felt more confident everywhere. This despite being on absolutely roasted RE71RS. It’s also amazing how well these things take the curbing. To be expected I suppose for coilovers of this caliber but it’s still amazing given what I was experiencing before.

So, given the extensive list of well thought out driver excuses: the rubber situation, taking 4 months off, running with traction on (grip was shit and I had 200lb of passenger ballast wasn’t taking any chances), and only being out for a few sessions, I’m quite happy with lap times that were not far off my prior PB where I was pushing at 10.1/10ths behind a better driver for the tow effect.

I’ll also add that I’m now getting into the nuance of really dialing this car for advanced pace on track which is exciting and fun. Alignment, ride height (rake), damper settings, brake coding, coaching… the game is on to go chasing after that 1:35 lap time I know the car is capable of.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Brief update after my first track time on these:

They solved all the issues I was having with the TCK SA/DA kit. So, cue the mission accomplished banner.

In addition to being a perfect fix for the limitations I had found with the prior kit, I felt more confident everywhere. This despite being on absolutely roasted RE71RS. It’s also amazing how well these things take the curbing. To be expected I suppose for coilovers of this caliber but it’s still amazing given what I was experiencing before.

So, given the extensive list of well thought out driver excuses: the rubber situation, taking 4 months off, running with traction on (grip was shit and I had 200lb of passenger ballast wasn’t taking any chances), and only being out for a few sessions, I’m quite happy with lap times that were not far off my prior PB where I was pushing at 10.1/10ths behind a better driver for the tow effect.

I’ll also add that I’m now getting into the nuance of really dialing this car for advanced pace on track which is exciting and fun. Alignment, ride height (rake), damper settings, brake coding, coaching… the game is on to go chasing after that 1:35 lap time I know the car is capable of.

This doesn't help my wait. BUT appreciate the update and positive feedback! I'm looking forward to the day that I have a set on my car.

[gnx]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

Got the Nitrons installed this week, going for a aligment on tuesday. Not going to lie, I am pretty impressed so far even without the alignment and I have not even yet started playing with the rebound/damping. I am not sure what is set at right now (whatever PO had it) and on a road yesterday got a bit bouncy but then today that was gone and on nice windy roads around my house it behaved pretty incredible, could easily carry more speed. Not going to push it too much and track season starts next month.

I do have a question for OG Shark and ThreeStripes and whoever else has these in their car. What aligment settings should I aim for? Obviously there is no exact answer but be nice to have a basis to tell the alignment shop. Camber was thinking 3 in front and 2 in the back. What about toe? anything specific I should tell the alignment shop?

Right after my install you could tell even by the looks of it that the front camber was maxed out. The car felt such a peach to drive I went for an alignment a month later. Steering feel was impeccable. Front camber was -3.45 left -3.85 right. In the end I gave in to my installer's suggestion not to go higher than -2.8 so I don't have to deal with uneven tire wear on the Cup2s.

I had him max out caster at at 9 degrees though. Rear camber at just over -2 degrees, zero toe up front, slight toe in the back.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by gnx

Right after my install you could tell even by the looks of it that the front camber was maxed out. The car felt such a peach to drive I went for an alignment a month later. Steering feel was impeccable. Front camber was -3.45 left -3.85 right. In the end I gave in to my installer's suggestion not to go higher than -2.8 so I don't have to deal with uneven tire wear on the Cup2s.

I had him max out caster at at 9 degrees though. Rear camber at just over -2 degrees, zero toe up front, slight toe in the back.

Id imagine you'd get some uneven wear on the cup 2s at -2.8. I was getting even wear on mine at the factory camber. It's dialed back to -2 on the street. It's not as much fun in the corners at -2, but much less darty for daily diving

[ThreeStripes]

Nothing new to add to this thread other than to note that these coilovers add a significant improvement to my state of mind every morning when I leave the driveway.

If you too suffer from being a human and are looking for a source of joy in life, look no further.