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      05-16-2018, 02:01 PM   #1
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BM3 Burble Settings

I recently flashed the BM3 Stage 2 tune to my car, and found the overrun burble settings to be way too loud compared to Stage 1.

I know there are customisations possible with BM3 maps now, but I had some questions for proTUNING Freaks about how they worked, and posted on their support forums.

I thought Dzenan's response was worth posting up here in case it benefitted anyone else:

First, my questions (for context):
  • Is there any way to discover or default OTS map settings for burble, cold start etc? I found that the Stage 1 burbles to be pretty good, and that Stage 2 too agressive. I’d rather not keep flashing with small changes trying to guess what combination of settings gets me to Stage 1 burbles.
  • Is there a way to reset the OTS map customisations back to default if I’ve changed them at all? There are options for OEM and Custom, but no Default
And then Dzenan's response:
I've posted in regards to burble on f80post and why it doesn't translate into sliders. Slider is a 1 dimensional control while there are multiple tables for burble that have to do with ignition timing which isn't 1 dimensional. As a rough approximation the aggression slider set to around 5-5.5 comes close to our OTS map. As for duration its around 1.5-2seconds and RPM min is around 1200 and max at 8000 (higher than redline just to not have a max).

If by default burble settings you mean OTS map settings, yes, you'd use the OTS map dropdown. Our Stage 1 and 2 maps have identical settings for burble. Any differences there will/can be attributed to exhaust setup, values are identical.
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      05-16-2018, 02:08 PM   #2
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Based on Dzenan's response, I'm not sure how Stage 2 can be the same as Stage 1; the difference is pretty obvious in regular driving, though maybe it is based on exhaust valve position which he didn't mention.

The other thing I noticed is that in a web browser, I have different options for Burble settings compared to what I have in the Android app:

Browser:


Android App:


I'm using the Android app mostly, so hadn't seen the OTS option initially. I'm not sure why it's not there, but that does answer my second question.

I'm now going to have to have a play with these siders and see if I can find a result I'm happy with.
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      05-16-2018, 07:23 PM   #3
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I'll be watching this closely...my wife heard the car today for the first time after I flashed it Sunday. I was three blocks away. Lol. She was like, "You better undo whatever you did." Here's hoping you find a workable solution Nezil
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      05-16-2018, 08:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
I'll be watching this closely...my wife heard the car today for the first time after I flashed it Sunday. I was three blocks away. Lol. She was like, "You better undo whatever you did." Here's hoping you find a workable solution Nezil
That's pretty funny
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      05-17-2018, 03:51 AM   #5
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Just so you know....2 of our 4 dogs know when daddy is coming. They start barking
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      05-17-2018, 05:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2ruder View Post
Just so you know....2 of our 4 dogs know when daddy is coming. They start barking
What about the other 2?
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      05-17-2018, 07:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2ruder View Post
Just so you know....2 of our 4 dogs know when daddy is coming. They start barking
What about the other 2?
They are 17 limited hearing the rockets are 3
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      05-17-2018, 12:13 PM   #8
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Last night I flashed the 93 AKI Stage 2 OTS tune (testing 100 AKI Race Fuel blend with CA 91 pump gas!), and while doing so, also set the burble setting to OEM.

I was initially sceptical of Dzenan's comment:
Our Stage 1 and 2 maps have identical settings for burble. Any differences there will/can be attributed to exhaust setup, values are identical.
But I'm now less so... Even with the OEM settings for burble, there is an obvious burble in Comfort mode, and a more pronounced, though certainly less than default OTS, burble in Sport mode.

I'm inclined to believe that the differences between the Stock burble and the Stage 2 OTS burbles that I'm hearing are in part to do with the FabSpeed Sport Cat that I installed at the same time as the Stage 2 OTS map (as suggested by Dzenan), but mostly to do with fuelling and timing changes in the OTS maps.

I say this because you can make the burbles much more aggressive by jumping on the gas and then lifting off quickly. This might be because of the timing position just before overrun, or the boost at that time, but either way, there are significant differences between Stock, Stage 1 OTS and Stage 2 OTS burbles with no other hardware changes.

To my ears, the OEM burble setting is actually pretty nice with the Stage 2 map, so I'm probably going to be sticking with that. I'd say that in Comfort mode the burbles are similar to Traction mode when the car was stock (no DP, no tune), and in Sport mode, they're a little more aggressive and louder, but not much.
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      05-17-2018, 12:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Last night I flashed the 93 AKI Stage 2 OTS tune (testing 100 AKI Race Fuel blend with CA 91 pump gas!), and while doing so, also set the burble setting to OEM.

I was initially sceptical of Dzenan's comment:
Our Stage 1 and 2 maps have identical settings for burble. Any differences there will/can be attributed to exhaust setup, values are identical.
But I'm now less so... Even with the OEM settings for burble, there is an obvious burble in Comfort mode, and a more pronounced, though certainly less than default OTS, burble in Sport mode.

I'm inclined to believe that the differences between the Stock burble and the Stage 2 OTS burbles that I'm hearing are in part to do with the FabSpeed Sport Cat that I installed at the same time as the Stage 2 OTS map (as suggested by Dzenan), but mostly to do with fuelling and timing changes in the OTS maps.

I say this because you can make the burbles much more aggressive by jumping on the gas and then lifting off quickly. This might be because of the timing position just before overrun, or the boost at that time, but either way, there are significant differences between Stock, Stage 1 OTS and Stage 2 OTS burbles with no other hardware changes.

To my ears, the OEM burble setting is actually pretty nice with the Stage 2 map, so I'm probably going to be sticking with that. I'd say that in Comfort mode the burbles are similar to Traction mode when the car was stock (no DP, no tune), and in Sport mode, they're a little more aggressive and louder, but not much.
If you find that the burbles are too much even in comfort mode, I assume you should be able to play with the settings to eventually make it like stock.

When I had the OTS VF Stage 2 tune, the burbles were too much for my liking and they were able to modify their tune back to OEM burbles.

So it's possible but not sure how it would be done
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      05-17-2018, 12:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
If you find that the burbles are too much even in comfort mode, I assume you should be able to play with the settings to eventually make it like stock.

When I had the OTS VF Stage 2 tune, the burbles were too much for my liking and they were able to modify their tune back to OEM burbles.

So it's possible but not sure how it would be done
I think it depends on how you define 'OEM burbles'. I think proTUNING Freaks defines this as the over-run timing table settings taken from the stock map, which is logical.

Most users however, would either define this as the sounds you get from a stock tune combined with their updated hardware (e.g. High Flow or Catless DP), or the sounds you get from a stock tune and the stock hardware.

Getting an equivalent for the stock hardware as well is tough, because you're trying to compensate for some changes that have been made outside of the tune.

My point is that other aspects of the tune apart from the specific over-run timing tables appear to have an affect on the over-run burbles. It's possible that VF has done something to compensate for this, but I'd have thought it's more likely that they, like proTUNING Freaks, just copied the data from the stock map for that table.

It will therefore be like stock, but not the same as stock, for the reasons I've described.
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      05-17-2018, 12:35 PM   #11
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Good update Nezil
For reference I also have FS Sportcat DP and MPE. I noticed on driving into work today, that if I leave the exhaust flap in the closed position, then the cracks/pops on Comfort are gone...I only hear the "burbles"...the softer sounds. But who wants to drive in Comfort amiright? In Sport+ with flaps closed, the cracks/pops are less for sure but still there mostly on throttle modulation (i.e. letting off the throttle), and less so on downshifts. Flaps Open ...is a gunfight ...plain an simple.
So I will try setting to the OEM burble setting and hopefully I can open my exhaust fully.

Last edited by F87_LCI; 05-17-2018 at 12:58 PM..
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      05-17-2018, 12:36 PM   #12
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So.....

I was just looking in the BM3 UI, and I can see that all OTS maps have been updated 24 minutes ago to v5.3, with 'Burble Intensity Lowered' in the comments...

The plot thickens!
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      05-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #13
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Perhaps we are not the only ones with "sensitive ears"...
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      05-17-2018, 03:39 PM   #14
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Guys,one thing to keep in mind:

The M2 came with some over run, huge selling point that makes the car sound so cool......that is what the huge complaints of the F80/82 there was no over run.
Then the comp pack came out and it had over run and everybody was happy. My point is you take over run, add a down pipe (catted or not) and add a tune that light calm over run just became a gun fight. Not a front line battle but still. So even if your back to stock burble so to speak, with added fuel tuning, down pipe, etc it is going to be louder and more burbly.
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      05-19-2018, 10:43 PM   #15
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I am on stage v5. Can't go back to the extreme gun shot burble after I messed with the settings, any idea guys?
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      05-20-2018, 01:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tth86 View Post
I am on stage v5. Can't go back to the extreme gun shot burble after I messed with the settings, any idea guys?
I think it used to be possible to go back to all stock settings by removing the map from your list in 'My Maps', then adding it back in again, but now that v5.3 is out, that's not possible.

Try using a web browser rather than a phone to adjust the burble settings. There should be a setting for 'OTS' in addition to OEM, Custom and Off. OTS should be back to the standard settings for the map. I'm not sure why this option isn't there on the phone apps, but it's there in every browser that I've tried.

There is also the (AGG) OTS maps that have more aggressive burble; you could try one of those.
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      05-20-2018, 01:40 AM   #17
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I flashed v5.3 of the Stage 2 91 Octane OTS map this evening, and left the burbles in the standard settings or to put it another way, didn't tweak anything.

It sounds perfect now, very well balanced. Comfort is pretty much silent, with some slight burbles, and Sport is just enough to sound good. If you're gunning it, the Sport burbles seem to get louder, and there are some cracks, but not nearly as loud and aggressive as the 5 map.

I kept a copy of the 5 map in my maps folder, just in case I want to go back to that. It's almost comically loud!
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      05-20-2018, 05:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I flashed v5.3 of the Stage 2 91 Octane OTS map this evening, and left the burbles in the standard settings or to put it another way, didn't tweak anything.

It sounds perfect now, very well balanced. Comfort is pretty much silent, with some slight burbles, and Sport is just enough to sound good. If you're gunning it, the Sport burbles seem to get louder, and there are some cracks, but not nearly as loud and aggressive as the 5 map.

I kept a copy of the 5 map in my maps folder, just in case I want to go back to that. It's almost comically loud!
I actually liked V4 but it had no start up roar and a bit more burbles than I like in comfort but it was much more well rounded then V5. I just flashed V5.3 E30 so will see how they sound as soon as the rain settled down
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      05-20-2018, 07:52 PM   #19
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      05-21-2018, 01:35 PM   #20
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Hi Guys-

A little (completely) off topic here, but I have a question about BM3 I was hoping some users could shed some light on. I have a MY17 6MT, currently with FS catted DP. I don't intend to upgrade the intercooler, or charge pipes or anything else. Strictly for street use, so should not be an issue with high IATs. I'm looking at BM3 Stage 2.

So my question basically revolves around usability of the BM3 apps, both mobile and PC. I'm a computer guy by profession and a car enthusiast by nature, but all of the settings, configurations, tuning parameters, etc., seem a little daunting. Is it the type of thing that can easily be figured out with a little trial and error? How much tolerance for the "and error" side of things is there? And does each flash count against the 60 total allowed--is that still a thing? And will I throw the "modified ECU" OBD error that could get me flagged at the dealer?

In the past when I've hesitated on this type of stuff but eventually plunged in it's been fine, I was just wondering where this lies on the spectrum. And is there any demo I can play around with? Getting to see how it worked would really help put my mind at ease. I'm also interested in removing the cold start and want to confirm that's there with BM3.

Any help greatly appreciated.
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      05-21-2018, 10:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantComplain View Post
Hi Guys-

A little (completely) off topic here, but I have a question about BM3 I was hoping some users could shed some light on. I have a MY17 6MT, currently with FS catted DP. I don't intend to upgrade the intercooler, or charge pipes or anything else. Strictly for street use, so should not be an issue with high IATs. I'm looking at BM3 Stage 2.

So my question basically revolves around usability of the BM3 apps, both mobile and PC. I'm a computer guy by profession and a car enthusiast by nature, but all of the settings, configurations, tuning parameters, etc., seem a little daunting. Is it the type of thing that can easily be figured out with a little trial and error? How much tolerance for the "and error" side of things is there? And does each flash count against the 60 total allowed--is that still a thing? And will I throw the "modified ECU" OBD error that could get me flagged at the dealer?

In the past when I've hesitated on this type of stuff but eventually plunged in it's been fine, I was just wondering where this lies on the spectrum. And is there any demo I can play around with? Getting to see how it worked would really help put my mind at ease. I'm also interested in removing the cold start and want to confirm that's there with BM3.

Any help greatly appreciated.
As you said, it is off topic, so I'll point you to a post I made that might answer a lot of your question: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1492908

Regarding warranty... If you flash your DME, you should expect that your drivetrain warranty is gone.

Before you visit your dealer, you can flash back to stock and lock the DME again, and they may not notice that you'd had a tune, but if you try to make a claim, they might dig deeper and find out.

The other thing to consider is that any bolt ons that you have, if they don't invalidate the warranty directly, are a red flag that you might have flashed a tune.

I'm obviously hoping that I never need the drivetrain warranty, and I'm planning on flashing back to stock and locking before visiting the dealer. I'm probably even going to go to the trouble of removing the bolt ons that I have (Sport Cat DP, FMIC, Boost & Charge Pipes) before I take my car in. I'm not doing that to 'fool' the dealer so that I can make a drivetrain claim, I'm doing it so that I don't get red flagged in case I need to make any other unrelated claims.

With all this being said, with the exception of the early diff recall, these cars now have a few years of use, and there have been very few issues. Even owners with big modifications like port injection and upgraded turbos pushing 500whp haven't had issues with the drivetrain yet. Remember that the gearbox and differential are the same parts in the M3 / M4 GTS, and our cars have less power and torque than those.
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      05-22-2018, 02:09 AM   #22
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Yeah I'm personally not a huge fan of the burbles in the OTS map, and the burble controls don't give me enough of a granular control.

So I've been mapping my own burbles on a custom self tuned map.

There's well over 6 tables that can vary directly affect the burbles in dramatic ways. There's also logic involved that has to do with EGT, load% before overrun, etc, that isn't easy to understand, but you can infer from.

I've planned on doing a writeup for self-tuning... but for some reason... I feel like the liability concerns would far outweigh the benefits to the community.
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