BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Manual or DCT

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-08-2018, 12:32 PM   #155
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Exactly - Never ever drive a MT in a Porsche. You will walk away asking why BMW can't do this? :
I'm a manual fan and ordering my M2C with 6MT too but I didn't even have to drive a Porsche to remember how BMW's MT wasn't the best. I have been driving 5-speed 2001 Miata since last week and the transmission feels great. No rubbery feeling, no resistance on 1st to 2nd shifts. As you said, I've been asking myself why BMW can't do this.
I had a 2008 Honda Civic Si as a daily driver and to date - it's still one of the best MT's I've ever owned.
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
Appreciate 1
M-Pilot4859.00
      08-08-2018, 09:04 PM   #156
seis-speed
#savethemanuals
seis-speed's Avatar
United_States
2426
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: 1M | GT3 | J392 | GRc
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
When I see a post like this I cringe...I guess if you have a head injury, then it could possibly makes sense to the reader.

I don't hate MT (I had >11 6MT BMWs in the past) I love DCT and it's my second DCT car I ordered.

I see you also have a 1M. Great car!
I was doing THIS with my 1M until I got disabled and had to opt for an autobox... Not!

Unforunately there are no US guys in F1 because otherwise all F1 cars would have 6MTs.

Cheers
Robin
Haha!

No I get it, that was a foolish post. Of course, get what you enjoy. I personally love 6MT and when FVM says “as long as the take rate remains we will have 6MT” it selfishly makes me want everyone to order manual so we still have the option. Hindsight, each person has their priorities!

Enjoy your faster DCT in good health !!!
Appreciate 1
Mavallone164.50
      02-27-2020, 06:55 AM   #157
F87EVO
Major
F87EVO's Avatar
Cyprus
4004
Rep
1,221
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
The DCT is a thing of the past before the manual. The f87 platform will be the last BMW with a DCT.
what do you mean ?
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 08:14 AM   #158
MMMBRAP
Captain
United_States
976
Rep
843
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
what do you mean ?
BMW is phasing DCT out for the current 8-speed auto that I believe is already in several of its new models. Based on reviews I've read/watched, it's as fast as DCT but it's...........a normal auto. Which is kind of meh to me, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

1.) My car is a weekend toy, so I don't need to commute in it or daily it.
2.) Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.
Appreciate 1
F87EVO4004.00
      02-27-2020, 08:27 AM   #159
Sarg33
Lieutenant
Sarg33's Avatar
United_States
555
Rep
542
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3M
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMBRAP View Post
To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.

+1 for me. I have no regrets. I love rowing through the gears on a country road!
Appreciate 2
MMMBRAP975.50
Moflow2484.50
      02-27-2020, 08:31 AM   #160
F87EVO
Major
F87EVO's Avatar
Cyprus
4004
Rep
1,221
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMBRAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
what do you mean ?
BMW is phasing DCT out for the current 8-speed auto that I believe is already in several of its new models. Based on reviews I've read/watched, it's as fast as DCT but it's...........a normal auto. Which is kind of meh to me, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

1.) My car is a weekend toy, so I don't need to commute in it or daily it.
2.) Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMBRAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
what do you mean ?
BMW is phasing DCT out for the current 8-speed auto that I believe is already in several of its new models. Based on reviews I've read/watched, it's as fast as DCT but it's...........a normal auto. Which is kind of meh to me, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

1.) My car is a weekend toy, so I don't need to commute in it or daily it.
2.) Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.
I believe both transmitions are fine . You wont be disapointed with any of the two. My view is that the DCT is the best of both worlds since its an automated manual transmition , and not an automatic transmition . Ofc you dont get the involvement of the 3rd petal , but on the other hand you change mechanical gears with your fingers .keeps the gears into the gearbox as a manual , rolling back if you dont press brake just like a manual . Happy for those 2 transmitions be available on the cars , ofc DCT is a whole new level than the previous SMG , far more fun , reliable etc. My reply was about the DCT phasing out cause i havent heard about it . i drive the car mostly on weekends , and only with the paddles shifts , where i really enjoy the car is when traction is full off , and play with the first 3 years ! Its the way i forget about the "i wish it was manual " hahah !
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 08:42 AM   #161
Conissah
Major
Conissah's Avatar
1575
Rep
1,049
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, how do the DCT lot of you feel on the ZF8, since the DCT will be no more?

I have some experience with the ZF8, and it's absolutely awesome. Lighting fast shifts and responsive on the paddles. Plus an extra gear means better acceleration and/or better highway mpg. They're also proven to hold lots of power, FCA uses them in all the SRT's/Hellcats/Trackhawks.

Only complaint I have, is that they're usually "fill for life" tranny's, so no servicing. What they don't tell you is LIFE is meant for the life of the warranty, usually 60,000-100,000 miles, not the life of the tranny. The ZF approved fluid is VERY expensive (I want to say $25+ per quart), and the filter is built into the pan, which is a smooth $500-600 for the whole thing. I was looking into servicing the ZF in my 2015 Grand Cherokee, but it was going to be $900 or so in materials alone. I can't imagine a DCT service, or new clutches, would be any cheaper, but you would think a traditional torque-converter tranny wouldn't be nearing the 4 digits for a fluid and filter swap.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 10:20 AM   #162
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMBRAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
what do you mean ?
BMW is phasing DCT out for the current 8-speed auto that I believe is already in several of its new models. Based on reviews I've read/watched, it's as fast as DCT but it's...........a normal auto. Which is kind of meh to me, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

1.) My car is a weekend toy, so I don't need to commute in it or daily it.
2.) Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMBRAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
what do you mean ?
BMW is phasing DCT out for the current 8-speed auto that I believe is already in several of its new models. Based on reviews I've read/watched, it's as fast as DCT but it's...........a normal auto. Which is kind of meh to me, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I opted for 6MT because:

1.) My car is a weekend toy, so I don't need to commute in it or daily it.
2.) Buying a brand new car with MT is only going to get increasingly more difficult and hard to come by. I want to enjoy it while I still can.
I believe both transmitions are fine . You wont be disapointed with any of the two. My view is that the DCT is the best of both worlds since its an automated manual transmition , and not an automatic transmition . Ofc you dont get the involvement of the 3rd petal , but on the other hand you change mechanical gears with your fingers .keeps the gears into the gearbox as a manual , rolling back if you dont press brake just like a manual . Happy for those 2 transmitions be available on the cars , ofc DCT is a whole new level than the previous SMG , far more fun , reliable etc. My reply was about the DCT phasing out cause i havent heard about it . i drive the car mostly on weekends , and only with the paddles shifts , where i really enjoy the car is when traction is full off , and play with the first 3 years ! Its the way i forget about the "i wish it was manual " hahah !
The current generation m2 I think will be the last DCT car BMW sells. After that all ZF8 and MT option on next gen m2/m3/m4.
Appreciate 1
F87EVO4004.00
      02-27-2020, 10:50 AM   #163
AlpsRider
Brigadier General
AlpsRider's Avatar
2858
Rep
3,840
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

I think the ZF8 is the best auto for everyday commuting and long trips. It just shifts seamlessly in traffic and gets better fuel economy. However the speed of paddle shifter shifting in my car wasn't fast enough for me in the mountain twisties with the ZF8 and in auto mode it didn't shift as I wanted it to. I think in manual mode and twisties the DCT still wins over ZF8. I'll take my manual everyday.

Last edited by AlpsRider; 02-28-2020 at 04:22 AM..
Appreciate 1
      02-27-2020, 11:00 AM   #164
vale007
Private First Class
80
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: e82 1 M coupe
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: vienna

iTrader: (0)

Manual
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 11:59 AM   #165
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

I chose the DCT despite having owned a good many MT cars in the past (but none in the last 10 years).

One, I daily it sometimes thru traffic and have a bad left knee.
Two, I was never good at heel-toe.
Three, It is faster and easier for me to use paddles when on track or even twisty roads. Imagine 318 curves on the Tail of the Dragon. Lots of 2nd gear turns and short 3rd gear straights. I don't think you'd shift an MT 100+ times unless you're Hans Stuck or Bill Auberlen.
Four, I don't mind the slightly taller top gear for cruising and better MPG.

Also, if the M2 is the last DCT, I'll miss it in future rides. Not saying the M tuned ZF8 isn't a great transmission (and it certainly is in the M5) but the DCT suits the M2 character quite well.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 2
      02-27-2020, 12:06 PM   #166
PLF69
Colonel
PLF69's Avatar
3763
Rep
2,700
Posts

Drives: 2023 M3
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Yeah, how do the DCT lot of you feel on the ZF8, since the DCT will be no more?

I have some experience with the ZF8, and it's absolutely awesome. Lighting fast shifts and responsive on the paddles. Plus an extra gear means better acceleration and/or better highway mpg. They're also proven to hold lots of power, FCA uses them in all the SRT's/Hellcats/Trackhawks.

Only complaint I have, is that they're usually "fill for life" tranny's, so no servicing. What they don't tell you is LIFE is meant for the life of the warranty, usually 60,000-100,000 miles, not the life of the tranny. The ZF approved fluid is VERY expensive (I want to say $25+ per quart), and the filter is built into the pan, which is a smooth $500-600 for the whole thing. I was looking into servicing the ZF in my 2015 Grand Cherokee, but it was going to be $900 or so in materials alone. I can't imagine a DCT service, or new clutches, would be any cheaper, but you would think a traditional torque-converter tranny wouldn't be nearing the 4 digits for a fluid and filter swap.
Not all ZF 8 speed are the same. I serviced the one in my 2014 Q5 TDI at 100k km and the price of oil and filter (seperate) was very reasonnable.

I'll give my input on it since I owned a m235i with the ZF before my DCT M2. I also drove a 6MT M2 on track a few times.

for STREET driving, puttering around and quick jolts of spirited driving the ZF is better, shifts in auto are incredibly smooth, sport plus/manual shifts are crisp enaugh and 8th gear saves fuel. Its just a very pleasant experience.

for TRACK driving, mainly HPDE events I find de DCT much better, you don't need the refinement and smoothness of the ZF on track so the negatives of DCT on the street don't matter. Shifting 7 gears is just right, ZF8 ratios are annoying on tight tracks, upshifts are insanly quick, it really is an automated manual, if more efficient at performance driving and it feels like it.

As for the beloved 6MT, I find there is no other way to augment your connection with the car, it basically ads another dimension wich I would describe as a direct relation between your right foot and the engine of the car. You lose this with any automatic/robotic transmission.

Like in many things there is always a compromise, I had even more fun on track with the 6mt even if I was slower but I was very happy to put my DCT in auto when driving back home after a full track day tottaly exhausted. In some situation I wish I'd have the other but in some I'm more than happy with my choice.

Knowing what you want and defining your realistic needs is sometimes the hardest part of buying a car. Let me finish by saying I would NOT own a ZF8 M2, I'd just revert to MT. Its just too easy with the ZF, the DCT is just at the limit, you know you have to let it do its things and be a little careful. This ads character to the car. The ZF removes this
__________________
Fun/HPDE: 2023 M3 6MT Individual Malachite
Past:2023 M4 CSL, 2022 M4C Vert, 2020 M340i, 2018 M2, 2015 M235i, 2008 135i 550whp
Daily: 2023 X5 45e
Daily/Family: 2021 Atlas Cross Sport 3.6
Appreciate 1
MMMBRAP975.50
      02-27-2020, 12:48 PM   #167
Bumpinjeep
Colonel
Bumpinjeep's Avatar
United_States
5364
Rep
2,239
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Redmond, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 M2  [8.00]
Test drive similar spec'ed cars, one manual, one auto. See which one fits your needs.
Side note: From what i've read on this forum, the 6 speed cars are holding their value more than similar auto cars. I would imagine that's due to rarity but who knows?
__________________
Present: 2023 M2 BSM W/Carbon everything, 6 Speed
Past:2020 M2C HS Executive, 6 Speed
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 09:09 PM   #168
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Yeah, how do the DCT lot of you feel on the ZF8, since the DCT will be no more?
I will be back to manual and mourn the loss of DCT.
Appreciate 3
Conissah1574.50
ChrisK4449.00
wavyyyy1036.50
      02-28-2020, 11:49 PM   #169
mtoosexy
Captain
mtoosexy's Avatar
723
Rep
713
Posts

Drives: It like I stole It.
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
[QUOTE=TheoriginalM2;25858695]I believe both transmitions are fine . You wont be disapointed with any of the two. My view is that the DCT is the best of both worlds since its an automated manual transmition , and not an automatic transmition .

waaaaaat?
Apologize in advance, im a little annoyed before hopping on tonight and maybe a little tipsy. I overheard a silly argument earlier today between two 20 year-olds at the bimmer shop.
If you press the gas and the car changes gear for you... its an automatic. If there is no third pedal, I don't think u can call it anything but what it is.
don't flame... I know what a DCT does and enjoy driving it very once in a while... but lets not kid ourselves. Own that fact that it's an automatic, there is no shame in that. If that's what you like then more power to you. Be loud, proud, drive that automatic like you stole it!!!!!
__________________
P car or AND M2>
Appreciate 3
natmad667.00
F87EVO4004.00
Habber3393.00
      02-28-2020, 11:57 PM   #170
mtoosexy
Captain
mtoosexy's Avatar
723
Rep
713
Posts

Drives: It like I stole It.
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Test drive similar spec'ed cars, one manual, one auto. See which one fits your needs.
Side note: From what i've read on this forum, the 6 speed cars are holding their value more than similar auto cars. I would imagine that's due to rarity but who knows?
Pretty much has to be that reason
I wouldn't buy an automatic if it were 5k cheaper. Maybe that's just me but only need to let the used market speak for itself.
m2cs hurry up and get here!!!!!!
__________________
P car or AND M2>
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 06:30 AM   #171
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
Apologize in advance, im a little annoyed before hopping on tonight and maybe a little tipsy. I overheard a silly argument earlier today between two 20 year-olds at the bimmer shop.
If you press the gas and the car changes gear for you... its an automatic. If there is no third pedal, I don't think u can call it anything but what it is.
Cool.

Get the 20 year olds to pull the shift lever to the right (no idea if it's to the left for LHD), then see if it changes gear for them. Report back.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 06:37 AM   #172
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
m2cs hurry up and get here!!!!!!
Agree. And mine will be DCT as god intended.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 06:53 AM   #173
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
9099
Rep
7,563
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
Apologize in advance, im a little annoyed before hopping on tonight and maybe a little tipsy. I overheard a silly argument earlier today between two 20 year-olds at the bimmer shop.
If you press the gas and the car changes gear for you... its an automatic. If there is no third pedal, I don't think u can call it anything but what it is.
Cool.

Get the 20 year olds to pull the shift lever to the right (no idea if it's to the left for LHD), then see if it changes gear for them. Report back.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
m2cs hurry up and get here!!!!!!
Agree. And mine will be DCT as god intended.
Really? God huh? 🤨

I know this a contentious subject and I really don't want to delve into it today but I'll just say that if the DCT was just as great and fulfilling, there would be no 6-speed manual option, since that would be considered redundant. Makes you wonder why BMW still offer both options.. It would almost seem like they're regarded as polar opposites..

Just a little food for thought, let's see how long it takes to digest..
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 09:26 AM   #174
natmad
First Lieutenant
667
Rep
334
Posts

Drives: M2C 6MT, M3C Build Week 43
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (0)

Mirriam-Webster

au·​to·​mat·​ic | \ ˌȯ-tə-ˈma-tik \
Definition of automatic
1a : largely or wholly involuntary
especially : REFLEX sense 5
//automatic blinking of the eyelids
b : acting or done spontaneously or unconsciously
//the automatic applause of the audience
c : done or produced as if by machine : MECHANICAL
//the answers were automatic
2 : having a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism
//an automatic transmission
3 of a firearm : firing repeatedly until the trigger is release
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 09:47 AM   #175
BigKutta
Brigadier General
BigKutta's Avatar
United_States
3871
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C, 2019 330xi, 2017 Q7
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Washington DC Burbs

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2019 330xi  [0.00]
2017 Audi Q7 3.0  [0.00]
2020 M2C  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Makes you wonder why BMW still offer both options.. It would almost seem like they're regarded as polar opposites..
Polar Opposites? That's a reach. I would just say two options. Even this BMW guy is using a DCT

Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #176
Al Bundy's Dodge
Captain
No_Country
1625
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

Yeah it's not polar opposites...it's just two different means of accomplishing the same thing.

You are either controlling the shifting with a stick and pedal, or controlling the shifting with two paddles...though DCT also gives you the option of automatic shifting.


6MT is a commitment to one method 100% of the time. DCT gives you the option of the level of engagement you want with your car, which I think is a cool feature.

Personally I don't straddle the fence. It's either 6MT or I'm walking.
__________________
2009 328i xDrive 6MT (Retired and I miss her)
2015 335i xDrive 6MT (Retired and I dont miss her)
2018 M2 6MT (Never retiring)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST