[STK]

Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper

Suspension. It takes a toll on your back. The m240 is softer.

I also used to own a lotus Elsie and drives that as a DD, my back was slosh that year lol.

I think that when you buy a M2 you're paying for a car that turns better. It's got wider tires and some bespoke M suspension parts. It's stiffer and lower. It's harsher.

M cars, from the E30, have always been about turning and balance, not HP. They're supposed to be nibble w/lots of feedback. The styling is typically more aggressive to accommodate the wheels and lowered suspension and, recently, because of marketing. And the M2 might also provide psychic benefits the M240 might not in that you might have always wanted an M car and it feels fricking great just sitting in the beast.

These are all good reasons to buy a M2. If you want a more compliant ride, immediate availability, a discount, a reasonable lease, more colors and options (and want to and care about going just as fast in a straight line) then buy a M240. There is no right choice. They are both good options. Again, no need for haters in either direction.

Honestly, both cars have capabilities well beyond the needs of the public roads when driven legally. And capabilities well beyond their drivers unless they spend time at the track learning how to harness either car at its limits. (I have a feeling that last comment might not be received positively.)

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Tracus

While you correctly pointed the AWD which will make it more all-around driveable, I am at the point right now and I don't like:

- M offers four colors only. What is wrong with BMW? I don't know, but we should have a wider range of colors. I like the colors but we are getting too little and too common. BMW is or it is not a luxury company? And taking about M, why not offering more colors and have more happy customers? Why is BMW world so less chromatic?
Sharp Red, Ruby red, fire red, yellow, green, metallic green, blue green, beige, brown, I don't know, there are so many colors, yet the range is so poor!

BMW has so many blues that even the statistics talk about Blue BMW. Blue BMW don't signal, blue BMW drivers are aggressive, etc. I am pretty sure that is not the color, just that there is too much blue.
BMW does not acknowledged yet that people wrap their cars for more uniqueness?

- Second, I like the black interior but just the thought that all of them are the same is not appealing to me. Every M2 interior must be black? Why?
I like light colors, make me happy and feel good. I like white leather, beige, white, red, brown, grey, I don't know, more colors. I like different and the possibility to make my vehicle more unique.

Bottom line, I am thinking to get a 240M AWD with white interior. Love the M wide fenders but I need to like the car inside out.

BMW wants you to buy a 240i, m3 ,m4 instead of the m2, that's why they limit those options.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Except also in "real" life I haven't seen an M2 at the dealer that doesn't have at least a 15 Grand plus mark up. And that's just the starting point.

There are plenty

[Jono2112]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I think it can be a good thing, but I didn't see the benefit in the 235 that I had for roughly 18 months. To me, there was no discernible difference for the way the car felt or handled in any of the settings - it was simply too squishy and killed the experience for me.

The fact that there's "less" tuning potential with the M2 is not by accident - if you have the underpinnings of an M3 in the M2 body/wheelbase, and you can get to the same power levels of the M3 easily, then you've got less incentives to go with the bigger car. Similar to the way that Porsche keeps the 911 as king over all, this is a neutering exercise by BMW.

I for one like the variable suspension in my m235i. Comfort is comfortable on multi hour trips. Sport and sport plus feel the same to me and the car handles better. Is it a huge difference? No. I would prefer the sport plus to be tighter, but that may hit the limit of what's possible in a stock m235. It is not an ///M car. I haven't driven the M2 so I don't know how it compares. But it does sound track ready where as the m235 or m240 are daily drivers with a little extra. If I had to replace my m235i, I would look at the M2 and the 240. Currently you can find discounts on the 240, but there is still a surcharge of $1,500 to $5,000 on the M2. That's according to my dealer who just got there first M2 allotment. Of one car. Tough decision.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by Tracus

While you correctly pointed the AWD which will make it more all-around driveable, I am at the point right now and I don't like:

- M offers four colors only. What is wrong with BMW? I don't know, but we should have a wider range of colors. I like the colors but we are getting too little and too common. BMW is or it is not a luxury company? And taking about M, why not offering more colors and have more happy customers? Why is BMW world so less chromatic?
Sharp Red, Ruby red, fire red, yellow, green, metallic green, blue green, beige, brown, I don't know, there are so many colors, yet the range is so poor!

BMW has so many blues that even the statistics talk about Blue BMW. Blue BMW don't signal, blue BMW drivers are aggressive, etc. I am pretty sure that is not the color, just that there is too much blue.
BMW does not acknowledged yet that people wrap their cars for more uniqueness?

- Second, I like the black interior but just the thought that all of them are the same is not appealing to me. Every M2 interior must be black? Why?
I like light colors, make me happy and feel good. I like white leather, beige, white, red, brown, grey, I don't know, more colors. I like different and the possibility to make my vehicle more unique.

Bottom line, I am thinking to get a 240M AWD with white interior. Love the M wide fenders but I need to like the car inside out.

That's totally fair and all your points are sound. I am a black on black type of guy for the M2 so it works for me. Black out the grill, side markers, side gills. It looks very sharp. This comment while facetious in nature does make my point. the thing could be raw sheet metal with old stained fabric seats but if you are going to offer me for the same money the m4 parts bin (suspension, brakes, beefed n55) and those bulging fenders and the way this thing is setup, handles and drives or the a colorful m240 with a bright interior I still have to pick the M2.

[TajoMan]

M2 is better car for "track" than M240.
If I go to track several times a year or I have other daily car, M2 would be the right one.
I just go to AutoX couple of times a year. 99% of the time is daily driving.
As a DD, M240 is better, more comfortable, but fast enough to enjoy bit of spirited driving. AWD is kinda must in Chicago weather as well.

Also in reality, you can get M240 about 8 k cheaper than M2.
(I would pick M240 even at the same price as M2 for daily driver, anyway. I'm one of those 10%)

Problem with BMW is that they should've get rid of M in front of 240 name.
For M235, it's sort of understandable because they didn't have M2 back then.
Now BMW sells M2. so they need to remove M from 240.
As much as I like my M240, I don't want/need M badge everywhere on non M car.

[bradleyland]

What's with all the hate for the M-Performance models? Wasn't the M535i the very first BMW to wear an M-badge? Meanwhile, one of the most iconic BMWs ever made doesn't even wear an M-badge (3.0 CSL).

The M-Performance line makes perfect sense. You get a car that has been developed with assistance from M GmbH, but isn't as hard around the edges as a full-blown M-car.

I don't know why it's so hard for anyone to understand why that's appealing to some people. Don't you guys have wives/mothers? My mom wouldn't even get in to my M3

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

What's with all the hate for the M-Performance models? Wasn't the M535i the very first BMW to wear an M-badge? Meanwhile, one of the most iconic BMWs ever made doesn't even wear an M-badge (3.0 CSL).

The M-Performance line makes perfect sense. You get a car that has been developed with assistance from M GmbH, but isn't as hard around the edges as a full-blown M-car.

I don't know why it's so hard for anyone to understand why that's appealing to some people. Don't you guys have wives/mothers? My mom wouldn't even get in to my M3

Hell my father won't ride in my Stage 2 M235. I'm on my second M235, down to 17" wheels for roads near me, xDrive convertible. 235 not 240 bc dealer had exactly what I wanted on the lot for a smoking deal last fall. No track days here, went Dinan to pump it up a bit.

So I'm basically your poster boy for why some folks would choose 235/240 versus M2.

That said I have a deposit down on an M2 GC if they ever make it to go with the convertible. Will be mildly amusing to use the xDrive convertible as my "winter car" but it makes a fair bit of sense when you think about it. Garage at home and work and AWD / convertible both bad for performance.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by STK

I think that when you buy a M2 you're paying for a car that turns better. It's got wider tires and some bespoke M suspension parts. It's stiffer and lower. It's harsher.

M cars, from the E30, have always been about turning and balance, not HP. They're supposed to be nibble w/lots of feedback. The styling is typically more aggressive to accommodate the wheels and lowered suspension and, recently, because of marketing. And the M2 might also provide psychic benefits the M240 might not in that you might have always wanted an M car and it feels fricking great just sitting in the beast.

These are all good reasons to buy a M2. If you want a more compliant ride, immediate availability, a discount, a reasonable lease, more colors and options (and want to and care about going just as fast in a straight line) then buy a M240. There is no right choice. They are both good options. Again, no need for haters in either direction.

Honestly, both cars have capabilities well beyond the needs of the public roads when driven legally. And capabilities well beyond their drivers unless they spend time at the track learning how to harness either car at its limits. (I have a feeling that last comment might not be received positively.)

Your last comment shouldn't be taken negatively, I sure don't view it that way, It makes sense. I want a M2 but drove my m235i during my first HPDE last year.

I didn't really push the car close to it's limits until day two, and still didn't fully do it. The better I got, the faster my instructor wanted me to go. It was scary, and real fun at the same time. Then I rode with my instructor in his track-ready e36 m3. It was a experience on another level. I was actually a little queasy afterwards.

I'm not an experienced track guy like some of you, and I'm not sure I will ever be, but I still want an M2.

[quikM2]

I don't think experience or being able to drive the car at it's limits matters... thats like saying I can't hit a drive like Dustin Johnson or Jordan Spieth so I should use a mediocre driver. Using the brand new top of the line taylormade won't make you hit it like them but it will allow you to be the best you can with no limitations from the club. I think that applies to driving your car.

[STK]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I don't think experience or being able to drive the car at it's limits matters... thats like saying I can't hit a drive like Dustin Johnson or Jordan Spieth so I should use a mediocre driver. Using the brand new top of the line taylormade won't make you hit it like them but it will allow you to be the best you can with no limitations from the club. I think that applies to driving your car.

When a tool limits your performance, get a better tool. But it's usually investments in learning how to use a tool that improve performance. I don't think moving from a M240 to a M2 is going to make most people better drivers. Or that they'll be able to use the increased capabilities of the M2 relative to the M240i. That said, the are many great reasons to prefer a M2 including that it make people feel better because it's a fricking M2, it's more fun to drive, it looks great, it sounds great, and on and on.

I don't know if your Taylor Made makes you a better driver or not, but you're taking a full swing off the tee. Driving a M2 on public roads is a bit like choking up on that Taylor Made and using it on a 170 yard par 3. It could be a blast, but your not using its full capabilities. But that's OK.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by STK

When a tool limits your performance, get a better tool. But it's usually investments in learning how to use a tool that improve performance. I don't think moving from a M240 to a M2 is going to make most people better drivers. Or that they'll be able to use the increased capabilities of the M2 relative to the M240i. That said, the are many great reasons to prefer a M2 including that it make people feel better because it's a fricking M2, it's more fun to drive, it looks great, it sounds great, and on and on.

I don't know if your Taylor Made makes you a better driver or not, but you're taking a full swing off the tee. Driving a M2 on public roads is a bit like choking up on that Taylor Made and using it on a 170 yard par 3. It could be a blast, but your not using its full capabilities. But that's OK.

And why is it "more fun to drive"? It's "more fun to drive" because of its greater capabilities, which are detectable well below the 10/10th context of the track, in the hands of an enthusiast of even average skill.

[Vyruz Reaper]

Here is the million dollar question.

If the m240i was badged as an M2 with some of the M2 extras like body kit and bigger wheels, more badges and had the B58 with its current performance...

Would any of the M2 guys be happy? Let's say the N55 M2 never existed.

I think there would be a different feeling of the m240i.

I'm in the IDGAF/10 category of whether I'm in a 240 or m2 - both are great cars

If price was equal I'd get a m2 because of its exclusivity, body kit and wheels.

If price was ~10k difference with the m240i being cheaper, I'd buy a m240i.

I found a deal on my m240 @ 9k cheaper and went that route.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I don't think experience or being able to drive the car at it's limits matters... thats like saying I can't hit a drive like Dustin Johnson or Jordan Spieth so I should use a mediocre driver. Using the brand new top of the line taylormade won't make you hit it like them but it will allow you to be the best you can with no limitations from the club. I think that applies to driving your car.

There is more than one way to interpret the statements regarding driving at the limit. One way to interpret it is that if you can't drive a car to it's full potential, you shouldn't have it. I agree; I think that argument is bullshit.

The other way to interpret it is that if you don't have the opportunity to drive the car to its limit, there's no sense in having the M2. I can understand this to some degree. Most BMWs hold up well when driven to somewhere around 7/10ths. For example, under most circumstances, my 135i was entirely gratifying to drive. It was only when I pushed it past 7/10ths that the chassis let me down. The springs were too soft, and the car pushed (understeer) terminally. My M3, by contrast, was a delight above 7/10ths.

So, if you're only going to drive a car around town, I can still definitely understand that you can feel a difference, but the differentiation between the two really doesn't become glaring until you're pushing pretty hard.

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Most dealers aren't doing M2 markups...

Then I need to buy from where you live. They are all marked up in LA

[Tumbleweeds78]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Then I need to buy from where you live. They are all marked up in LA

Nothing says you've gotta buy locally. I'm in NY and placed my order through a dealership in FL. They're charging me MSRP and rerouting the car to a dealer in NY at no extra cost.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Then I need to buy from where you live. They are all marked up in LA

Of course they are. SoCal and SoFL are two of the worst new-car markets in the country. Look at the number of luxury cars driving around. Demand in those markets is huge. Drive up to Sacramento and see what kind of deal you can cut

[scoale]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Double? Was that a joke or do you really not know any better?

Depending on the radius, the mid-corner speed would only be a few MPH different between the two cars.

C&D pulled .99 in their M2 around a 300 ft skidpad, their M240 pulled .94. That's a 5% improvement.

LOL to all of the Aryton Senna's on here describing the M240 as a soft grocery getter. For reference, the E46 M3 skidpad was .89.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by scoale

LOL to all of the Aryton Senna's on here describing the M240 as a soft grocery getter. For reference, the E46 M3 skidpad was .89.

And: A Porsche 996 GT3 is >1.5s (1:13.9)slower than an M2 around Hockenheim Short, a 993 (Biturbo) GT2 at that time even 2 whole seconds.(1:14.2)


Does that make those iconic Porsches slow and bad and not sporty cars?

Hint: Tyre technology.

Cheers
Robin

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by scoale

LOL to all of the Aryton Senna's on here describing the M240 as a soft grocery getter. For reference, the E46 M3 skidpad was .89.

While I agree that all the spec racing gets a little tiresome, I would point out that it's the only objective way to quantify the differences between the cars. No one is calling the M240i a grocery getter, but it is undeniably softer than the M2. That makes it more desirable to some people.

[DivideBYZero]

I got groceries in my M2. NOW WHAT?!

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by DivideBYZero

I got groceries in my M2. NOW WHAT?!

Lifetime ban. Nothing less!

Cheers
Robin