[ASAP]

I recently sold my M2C because I was looking for a larger car and with the current values, it seemed like the right time to do so... I sold it effectively for what I bought it for 3 years back... crazy situation that I think won't happen again... and w car repos going up... I expect the used car market to really cool off very soon.

Overall Impressions after 3 Years (as a point of note, I need to point out that my car was effectively stock and I've had it numerous environments including autox etc)-

The Good-

1) The M2C was without a doubt the most fun car that I have ever owned... anyone that's owned one will quickly see how exciting of a car it is. The DCT tranny while rough is incredibly fast and the way it hits you in the back on the shifts makes the drive incredibly exciting. The size of the car is also just about perfect (few cars of this size are still made). Last, I cannot get over how good this car looks especially w the 763M wheels on it. In no matter what situation you are in, the car continues to be fun and exciting and I think if that's what potential owners are looking for, they will never be disappointed.

2) the steering - everyone seems to complain about this... I always thought it was perfect... the feel and feedback was always great to me. I never entirely understood the complaints on this one.

3) the tech - it was just right... it had that middle ground with touchscreen and apple carplay... not overwhelming and still very driver focused

4) build quality - top notch... 0 rattles and the car is very very reliable

5) brakes - unlike few brakes i've ever felt on any car... most of my stops were last moment and exhibited 0 fade... i had to learn to brake later because i had so much trust in them (sadly... this is also a downfall because the brake dust coming from these was an utter joke, i had my beautiful 763s and they were clean for exactly a day before they were brown)


The Bad-

This is where I think I will catch some flak - again I've owned this car for 3 years and drove it in all conditions.

As a performance car / sports car, I don't think it was particularly very good.
First off, the car has a very short chassis and is very very twitchy. You have to be on top of your game and attention at all times to not go sideways... drifting / sliding is a chore because the car will always attempt to snap oversteer. Even taking a 90 degree turn a little faster will end up in some sort of issue that will force you to overcorrect. Again - this is the component that probably makes the car very fun and is what people look for in driver involvement.

The stock suspension - it's simply not good. On a perfect surface such as a track, I can only imagine it is wonderful. On normal roads which always have uneven surfaces or undulations, the stock suspension is MASSIVELY set to over rebound the car. This causes the car to be incredibly bouncy over any uneven roads. This takes away all confidence from the driver. As a side by side comparo - we took my friends 20 year old Z06 on the same onramp with a few bumps and it absolutely absorbed every bump... whearas my car felt like it wanted to take off. I noticed this from day one and was a little surprised this is an M car. The car also has this weird tendency to sway side to side when mergin onto onramps... I've tried every alignment setting in the world to correct this and could never get it right.

The stock S55 - Amazing motor overall and incredibly reliable, however it almost completely runs out of steam past 5500 rpm. It's far less aggressive than the tune in the F80. Also, I don't care what anyone says... it doesn't sound that great. If you turn off the ASD you realize how flat the sound it in the car.

The traction - any speed below 30 overwhelms the stock 265 Michelin PSS. It's obvious the car was setup for slides out of the factory. Watch any launch video against the new Supra and you'll see what i mean as they gave that car much wider tires out of the factory. Launch control in this car is exactly what you expect - useless. In stock config, you won't really out launch any sports car in this car.

I am still very happy I owned my car for the past 3 years (read my first comment) as will most other owners however I would not take this car as any serious sports car. I think BMW attempted to make a very fun car which they did but not really a convincing sporty coupe. Check any track times and it will back up my point. I think if I had to do it again, I would get a longer chassis F80 and throw some coilovers / tires on it and most of my concerns would be fixed. Many would say my concerns could be fixed with a few mods. Well perhaps thats true but I did just pay 65K for a car that doesn't feel as composed as a 20 year old Vette on the hwy...

[///393]

Originally Posted by ASAP

First off, the car has a very short chassis and is very very twitchy. You have to be on top of your game and attention at all times to not go sideways... drifting / sliding is a chore because the car will always attempt to snap oversteer. Even taking a 90 degree turn a little faster will end up in some sort of issue that will force you to overcorrect. Again - this is the component that probably makes the car very fun and is what people look for in driver involvement.

Thanks for your post. If find this part a bit dramatic, and kinda amusing.

When the car does oversteer I find it to be very manageable and quite enjoyable. Different strokes I suppose.

[allinon72]

I can't really refute any of your criticisms except what is a good sports car is going to vary from person to person. There's no doubt the car is built to be tail happy and that puts some people off. As for stock suspension, BMW always struggles with rebound, and they've gotten a little lazy overall with suspension tuning, especially with their EDC system but that's not applicable here.

The lack of top end is due in part because of the detuning. You'll probably like the S58, it has unlimited amounts of top end power.

One of the biggest gripes about the s55 is the sound, so that's not a controversial take.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

Thanks for your post. If find this part a bit dramatic, and kinda amusing.

I mean perhaps... but numerous review videos prove this point. If you take any 90 degree turn in a "fun" and "fast" way, the car will snap on you quick and you'll be lit up by the MDM mode... it is what it is... some people enjoy that, other think it takes away from the confidence.

I will add that the longer F80 is not like this at all and is real easy to slide with.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I can't really refute any of your criticisms except what is a good sports car is going to vary from person to person. There's no doubt the car is built to be tail happy and that puts some people off. As for stock suspension, BMW always struggles with rebound, and they've gotten a little lazy overall with suspension tuning, especially with their EDC system but that's not applicable here.

The lack of top end is due in part because of the detuning. You'll probably like the S58, it has unlimited amounts of top end power.

One of the biggest gripes about the s55 is the sound, so that's not a controversial take.

I think a big sore point for me was I had a 135i long before hand... I will admit it was protuned and had a set of Koni Yellows... replaced bushings etc and was overall just firmed up. The M2C was far more reliable but all in all for 65k didn't feel "that much" different than my barely 20k 135i... often times that is an impression I got. I really thing the new M2C will sort a lot of this out but I think that interior is absolutely horrid.

[///393]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I mean perhaps... but numerous review videos prove this point. If you take any 90 degree turn in a "fun" and "fast" way, the car will snap on you quick and you'll be lit up by the MDM mode... it is what it is... some people enjoy that, other think it takes away from the confidence.

Snap oversteer isn’t what you’re describing. But regardless we still disagree about how unmanageable it is.

My first reaction to sliding my 2017 was DEAR GOD IT MAKES ANYONE A HERO. You have a far different take.

One thing agree on? Wanting a GT3.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

Snap oversteer isn’t what you’re describing. But regardless we still disagree about how unmanageable it is.

My first reaction to sliding my 2017 was DEAR GOD IT MAKES ANYONE A HERO. You have a far different take.

One thing agree on? Wanting a GT3.

Kind of... I would probably go for a Turbo S ... still love the GT3 tho.

[Swish77]

That’s only one general positive and many detailed negatives, most of which I don’t agree with, although I’m a new M2C owner with not nearly as much driver experience in the car. (About 1,000 miles.)

I guess it would depend what you’re comparing it to. I previously drove a 2019 911 T and I can tell you that the suspension of the M2C for street driving is far superior for comfort, and the handling (in sports plus) feels just as crisp, and the engine actually feels more powerful, especially in the 4K-6K rpm range. Seems to pull more aggressively there when you get on it.

For a car that costs about $40K less than the 911, the M2C is pretty amazing, IMHO.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Swish77

That’s only one general positive and many detailed negatives, most of which I don’t agree with, although I’m a new M2C owner with not nearly as much driver experience in the car. (About 1,000 miles.)

I guess it would depend what you’re comparing it to. I previously drove a 2019 911 T and I can tell you that the suspension of the M2C for street driving is far superior for comfort, and the handling (in sports plus) feels just as crisp, and the engine actually feels more powerful, especially in the 4K-6K rpm range. Seems to pull more aggressively there when you get on it.

For a car that costs about $40K less than the 911, the M2C is pretty amazing, IMHO.

I can provide a few more positives... I also don't want to get into Porsche comparisons and pricing because there will be a lot of salt around this one.

1) the steering - everyone seems to complain about this... I always thought it was perfect... the feel and feedback was always great to me. I never entirely understood the complaints on this one.

2) the tech - it was just right... it had that middle ground with touchscreen and apple carplay... not overwhelming and still very driver focused

3) build quality - top notch... 0 rattles and the car is very very reliable

4) brakes - unlike few brakes i've ever felt on any car... most of my stops were last moment and exhibited 0 fade... i had to learn to brake later because i had so much trust in them (sadly... this is also a downfall because the brake dust coming from these was an utter joke, i had my beautiful 763s and they were clean for exactly a day before they were brown)

None of the above would outweigh the few things that aggravated me about the car.

Let me add these to the top.

[Rk-d]

Some counterpoints

Steering - depends on what you’re used to. Compared to my other cars, the M2C steering is pretty bad. Very numb/dead feeling.

Brakes - pretty decent. Feel and responsiveness could be better.

Handling - All things considered, I’m pretty happy with the handling but I have MP coilovers so not apples to apples.

Engine - I really like the motor in this car. Nice and punchy, satisfying to drive around town.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I think a big sore point for me was I had a 135i long before hand... I will admit it was protuned and had a set of Koni Yellows... replaced bushings etc and was overall just firmed up. The M2C was far more reliable but all in all for 65k didn't feel "that much" different than my barely 20k 135i... often times that is an impression I got. I really thing the new M2C will sort a lot of this out but I think that interior is absolutely horrid.

I agree with some of your points for sure. My Z4M was inferior in a lot of ways but actually felt like it has less secondary motion / body roll after transitions. That suspension was also not good in a similar way regarding rebound though. It's even worse in terms of leaving the ground, if you can believe it. Still, it has a bit of rawness and feel that isn't quite there on the M2C.

I think suspension and M2 CS Racing sway bar is going to fix a lot of what's not perfect here.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Rk-d

Some counterpoints

Steering - depends on what you’re used to. Compared to my other cars, the M2C steering is pretty bad. Very numb/dead feeling.

Brakes - pretty decent. Feel and responsiveness could be better.

Handling - All things considered, I’m pretty happy with the handling but I have MP coilovers so not apples to apples.

Engine - I really like the motor in this car. Nice and punchy, satisfying to drive around town.

Steering - Mostly agree. It's not bad to me but it's also not good like a Porsche.

Brakes - Agree, I think the pedal is overboosted and grabby. Not linear at all for street use.

Engine - No real complaints.

Handling (standard not MPS) - A bit rough for the amount of roll. Not terrible but not great over rough surfaces.

[bogdiniciu]

Here is my take on "lack of grip" and not a sporty car for that reason.

Keep in mind that it has over 400hp. You can't just smash the pedal. This is true for all cars around same hp unless they are AWD. To me that what a sporty car is, one that you need to learn to control.

Also, you need to have the right temp in your tires. I do backroad drives with stock PSS tires and once they are around 100 degrees they grab lake chewing gum, I can be very aggressive on the throttle and never had any scares. Again, not smashing the throttle.

[Moflow]

Glad you enjoyed your experience! I'm also in the camp where I think the M2 is much more of a "fun car" than a "sports car."

Sports cars have a lower center of gravity and are generally built from the ground up with handling in mind. The M2 was built from the ground up to be a daily usable coupe and then halfway through it's build it was hijacked and turned into a performance car.

I think of the M2 as being very close to my idealized version of a traditional American Pony Car. It's an everyday usable car that packs as much fun and bad behavior into it's personality as can possibly fit. My problem with the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger has always been about build quality and excessive size, so the M2 is perfect.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by bogdiniciu

Here is my take on "lack of grip" and not a sporty car for that reason.

Keep in mind that it has over 400hp. You can't just smash the pedal. This is true for all cars around same hp unless they are AWD. To me that what a sporty car is, one that you need to learn to control.

Also, you need to have the right temp in your tires. I do backroad drives with stock PSS tires and once they are around 100 degrees they grab lake chewing gum, I can be very aggressive on the throttle and never had any scares. Again, not smashing the throttle.

I've driven the car aggressively in the backwoods on windy roads. I had the stock 265 PSS warmed up quite well as it was close to 90F outside... the car simply felt sketchy, no ifs and or buts about it.... It was also insanely bouncy on roads that were uneven. It felt like you couldn't drive the car even close to its capabiltiies because it just felt unsafe. Appreciate the advice on how to drive the car lol...i've autocrossed it numerous times.

[KevinC]

My take on the steering comment: The steering is fine - IF you've never driven an older BMW with a hydraulic rack. Go flog an E46 ZHP over a mountain pass, THEN tell me the M2c steering is "good". You won't. BMW has had 19+ years to get electric power steering right, and they're still working on it but have yet to equal a hydraulic setup.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I've driven the car aggressively in the backwoods on windy roads. I had the stock 265 PSS warmed up quite well as it was close to 90F outside... the car simply felt sketchy, no ifs and or buts about it.... It was also insanely bouncy on roads that were uneven. It felt like you couldn't drive the car even close to its capabiltiies because it just felt unsafe. Appreciate the advice on how to drive the car lol...i've autocrossed it numerous times.

I agree, the stock suspension of the M2c is too bouncy. IMO, the spring rate is slightly to high. The OEM dampers do not do a great job controlling the springs. This is the reason for the nervous, yet playful nature of the car. I went directly from the M2c to the M2cs and the EDC dampers control the springs better. I still believe both could benefit from softer springs.

[allinon72]

You'll see complaints about bounciness on the F97 and F90 as well. BMW has slipped a little bit and is making cars a little too stiff, presumably to hit skidpad numbers, at the cost of low speed pogo'ing, rather than focusing on dampener tuning.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by M3R1

I agree, the stock suspension of the M2c is too bouncy. IMO, the spring rate is slightly to high. The OEM dampers do not do a great job controlling the springs. This is the reason for the nervous, yet playful nature of the car. I went directly from the M2c to the M2cs and the EDC dampers control the springs better. I still believe both could benefit from softer springs.

I suspect that in a perfect, hypothetical world, F87's would have another inch or two of travel at full compression.

There are cars that feel like they effortlessly handle well; even at times in spite of soft suspension. The M2 feels like the opposite. It handles pretty well, but it feels like it's working really hard to achieve that.

[Maximus_M2]

Originally Posted by KevinC

My take on the steering comment: The steering is fine - IF you've never driven an older BMW with a hydraulic rack. Go flog an E46 ZHP over a mountain pass, THEN tell me the M2c steering is "good". You won't. BMW has had 19+ years to get electric power steering right, and they're still working on it but have yet to equal a hydraulic setup.

God, I loved the steering in my 2001 330I. I miss it to this day.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KevinC

My take on the steering comment: The steering is fine - IF you've never driven an older BMW with a hydraulic rack. Go flog an E46 ZHP over a mountain pass, THEN tell me the M2c steering is "good". You won't. BMW has had 19+ years to get electric power steering right, and they're still working on it but have yet to equal a hydraulic setup.

Absolutely right. You don't even have to compare to what Porsche makes.

It takes just driving around the neighborhood to realize just how artificial the steering is right off center compared to hydraulic. In isolation, the M2 is fine though, it's pretty good at point and shoot.

I do like your review OP and what you view as negative, a lot of people will view as positive. While 295s look nice and beefy, I'd actually refrain from doing that to the M2 even if it were possible just because I like how "edgy" the car feels. I don't mind that it's kind of traction limited, I didn't buy it to be a drag car, and I love that it feels like a hooligan even at 40 mph in the wet.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Glad you enjoyed your experience! I'm also in the camp where I think the M2 is much more of a "fun car" than a "sports car."

Sports cars have a lower center of gravity and are generally built from the ground up with handling in mind. The M2 was built from the ground up to be a daily usable coupe and then halfway through it's build it was hijacked and turned into a performance car.

I think of the M2 as being very close to my idealized version of a traditional American Pony Car. It's an everyday usable car that packs as much fun and bad behavior into it's personality as can possibly fit. My problem with the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger has always been about build quality and excessive size, so the M2 is perfect.

All BMWs are fun cars, including their M versions. Some have less fun and their M variants have more (can be debatable these days). BMWs are jack of all trades, just look at the new M3 with a ZF8.

If you want sports car, you need to step up to a Porsche.