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M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > JB4 or wait for tune (BM3)?

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      02-16-2020, 11:44 PM   #1
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JB4 or wait for tune (BM3)?

For someone who has a locked DME, should I go for JB4/RaceChip or wait for a tune such as BM3 to become available (could take forever?)
I had BM3 Stage 2 on my 435 and it was great compared to stock.

Most I would do to the M2 would be tune/piggyback and DP's.

Is JB4 worth it or are tunes flat out superior and worth waiting for?
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      02-17-2020, 08:47 AM   #2
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This topic has been beaten to death a thousand times before but I'll give you the highlights:

JB4 is only worth it if you have warranty and would like to minimize the risk of losing it

Flash tune, depending on the tuner, is the more refined product but it leaves traces and makes it easier for BMW to deny a warranty claim

I wouldn't touch RaceChip with a stick because of their aggressive marketing strategy, their man-buns and the fact that they do hundreds of cars and don't seem very specialized on a specific engine. They do offer warranty though but be careful about the Terms and Conditions.

Up until recently a Flash Tune could be done through OBD port. This was patched and now you're forced to physically remove the ECU. It's do-able, but I wouldn't trust anyone that hasn't already laid hands on the S55, so be sure the shop knows their shit and its not all talk.

Also, take a moment and search for the Crank-Hub issue. If it spins, there's a good chance that (with either piggyback or flash tune) BMW will void your warranty and that leaves you with an expensive reparation bill. Fixing the crank-hub is also expensive though and you'll be putting a lot of confidence in the shop's skills because they will need to dismantle and re-install a shit load of components. There's a few detailed videos of the procedure on YouTube, make up your mind there.
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      02-17-2020, 01:04 PM   #3
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Yep, I would add that even if you did a piggy back tune the boost levels would exceed normal levels which means that if BMW analyzed the car's data the warranty could still be toast.
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      02-18-2020, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Yep, I would add that even if you did a piggy back tune the boost levels would exceed normal levels which means that if BMW analyzed the car's data the warranty could still be toast.
ECU does not show increased boost level with a piggy. The piggy tricks the ECU into thinking its making stock boost
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      02-18-2020, 12:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
ECU does not show increased boost level with a piggy. The piggy tricks the ECU into thinking its making stock boost
Maybe not but I've read in other threads, there are plenty of people that believe that BMW is sophisticated enough to figure it out. With all of the computers in that car (Carly scans 13 of them) there is data all over the place.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1142408
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      02-18-2020, 09:43 PM   #6
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Piggybacks get screwed with FASTA report like many said when looking at fuel injector flow. Pay to play, no free lunch, but its way more fun on this side of the fence when tuned. I had my DME sent out for bench unlock and got it back next day.
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      02-18-2020, 10:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
ECU does not show increased boost level with a piggy. The piggy tricks the ECU into thinking its making stock boost
This is true, but boost isn't the only way the ECU can detect a piggy.

However there are threads talking about hidden ECU codes referring to boost, fuel, and air fuel ratio plausibility codes. For example, piggy backs always cause the ecu to see underboost conditions so the car will allow for more boost, until the piggy back reaches it's new Target and let's the ECU think it reached the boost it wanted to hit. This works well for tricking boost levels, however you cannot trick the O2 sensors because more boost means more air and thus it'll go lean. As a result more fuel is added. This is where the ECU does a plausibility check where it sees how much fuel is being used for a certain boost level. What the car will see is that it's using an abnormally high amount if fuel for such a low boost level (this will get more apparent if the piggy back targets more boost) and it'll trigger a hidden plausibility code. This will be abundantly apparent of a piggy back being present, and these codes may be fully hidden from any dealership level diagnostics (ISTA) and unckearable. but it'll be fully visible when BMW sends engineering down to examine a car, i.e. engine failures or high $ warranty work.


Whether this system exists remains unknown, but there are rumours of it being present.
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      02-19-2020, 09:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
This is true, but boost isn't the only way the ECU can detect a piggy.

However there are threads talking about hidden ECU codes referring to boost, fuel, and air fuel ratio plausibility codes. For example, piggy backs always cause the ecu to see underboost conditions so the car will allow for more boost, until the piggy back reaches it's new Target and let's the ECU think it reached the boost it wanted to hit. This works well for tricking boost levels, however you cannot trick the O2 sensors because more boost means more air and thus it'll go lean. As a result more fuel is added. This is where the ECU does a plausibility check where it sees how much fuel is being used for a certain boost level. What the car will see is that it's using an abnormally high amount if fuel for such a low boost level (this will get more apparent if the piggy back targets more boost) and it'll trigger a hidden plausibility code. This will be abundantly apparent of a piggy back being present, and these codes may be fully hidden from any dealership level diagnostics (ISTA) and unckearable. but it'll be fully visible when BMW sends engineering down to examine a car, i.e. engine failures or high $ warranty work.


Whether this system exists remains unknown, but there are rumours of it being present.
I was responding to the claim that a simple boost check will show a pigygback was used. You are correct about other indicators that can be used.
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      02-19-2020, 11:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I was responding to the claim that a simple boost check will show a pigygback was used. You are correct about other indicators that can be used.
I see, if it was just simple boost checks (which it can 100% be as there is no evidence that any other forms of checks exist, except rumours of course) then you're absolutely right.
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      03-14-2020, 05:20 AM   #10
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Sorry to bring this post back to life, just Purchased a used Jb4 and it giving alot of grief. got out for a few miles this morning, we have boost but the app isn't showing the vehicle speed and then a few miles in (5mins) the app. Stopped displaying real time figures and froze, (android, Samsung S9) never happened before, EML remains illuminated through out.


When the the Jb4 display froze on the app, rebooted a few times and still showed the same figures wasn't untill i rebooted the car it refreshed the figures.


Also when the app froze it didn't data log anything the logs are there but they are blank

Does anyone have any extensive knowledge of the Jb4 someone i can PM ? I've had a Jb4 before on my F82 for years and it never ever gave me a problem.
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      03-14-2020, 01:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobyblakjack View Post
Sorry to bring this post back to life, just Purchased a used Jb4 and it giving alot of grief. got out for a few miles this morning, we have boost but the app isn't showing the vehicle speed and then a few miles in (5mins) the app. Stopped displaying real time figures and froze, (android, Samsung S9) never happened before, EML remains illuminated through out.

When the the Jb4 display froze on the app, rebooted a few times and still showed the same figures wasn't untill i rebooted the car it refreshed the figures.


Also when the app froze it didn't data log anything the logs are there but they are blank

Does anyone have any extensive knowledge of the Jb4 someone i can PM ? I've had a Jb4 before on my F82 for years and it never ever gave me a problem.
Best thing I can suggest is to disconnect the negative terminal in your battery and recheck every jb4 connection. Maybe update the software on the jb4 as well.

If that doesn't work you should email bms.
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