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      12-17-2019, 08:23 AM   #837
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That is BS. Another tax money grab by totally broke Illinois. Worst credit rating in the U.S. so does not surprise me. I was born there. Moved to NV. No state income tax. Shhh... don't tell anyone.
Not to thread jack...but we just moved from Naperville (Chicago area) back down to DFW. It was more than a 10% loss, financially, to move to Illinois...I think they're going to continue to lose people, especially with the implementation of the progressive tax system and more cash grabs like this.

It's too bad, because we loved Chicago.
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      12-17-2019, 08:33 AM   #838
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post

For some strange reason, Canada still does get the 40/20/40 rear split. Go figure :
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      12-17-2019, 08:48 AM   #839
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I think I'd prefer rear seat with cup holders, but on the flip side it would promote the kids having drinks in back. I can see a milk shake incident occuring all over the back seat. Kids are nasty. The little ones build accumulation under their car seats, and bigger ones manage to find any open space to deposit trash.
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      12-17-2019, 09:01 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I think I'd prefer rear seat with cup holders, but on the flip side it would promote the kids having drinks in back. I can see a milk shake incident occuring all over the back seat. Kids are nasty. The little ones build accumulation under their car seats, and bigger ones manage to find any open space to deposit trash.
No storage at all in the rear. As for the cup holders, the front ones aren't particularly useful lol. Our big American drinks are difficult to find under the radio, and they touch each other so they both lean to the sides. Plus they're in close proximity to the shifter, so you will inevitably bump them when shifting. If it has a screw lid, it goes in the door for me.
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      12-17-2019, 09:25 AM   #841
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
No storage at all in the rear. As for the cup holders, the front ones aren't particularly useful lol. Our big American drinks are difficult to find under the radio, and they touch each other so they both lean to the sides. Plus they're in close proximity to the shifter, so you will inevitably bump them when shifting. If it has a screw lid, it goes in the door for me.
That's a step up from my 92 325i. That car didn't have any cup holders.
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      12-17-2019, 09:57 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
No storage at all in the rear. As for the cup holders, the front ones aren't particularly useful lol. Our big American drinks are difficult to find under the radio, and they touch each other so they both lean to the sides. Plus they're in close proximity to the shifter, so you will inevitably bump them when shifting. If it has a screw lid, it goes in the door for me.
How true, I bought 3 or 4 metal water bottles before I found ones that fit in the cup hole and didn't block the dash buttons. https://www.amazon.com/REYLEO-Insulated-Bottle-Stainless-Standard/dp/B07WDHG6CM/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=reyleo%2Bbottle&q id=1576598153&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1
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      12-17-2019, 11:42 AM   #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post

For some strange reason, Canada still does get the 40/20/40 rear split. Go figure :
skis/snowboards
We have a big ski/snowboard industry in the U.S. too though.
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      12-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #844
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I mean them grilles don’t even light up for that kind of money?
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      12-17-2019, 12:29 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
We have a big ski/snowboard industry in the U.S. too though.
i was being geographically prejudiced towards our northern brethren.
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      12-17-2019, 01:58 PM   #846
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      12-17-2019, 02:05 PM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
M CEO Markus Flasch :

“They weigh about the same, all things considered, unless you equip the M2 CS with the carbon ceramic brakes which save about 25 kilograms (55 lbs),” Flasch told us.

“The reason for being the same weight as the M2 Competition, is the additional things we put in.”


Both the M2 Comp and M2 CS were said to be 1550kg(3417lbs) in their press releases. See tech sheets.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...cs?language=en

Again, BMW basically confirmed via BMW blog website as they told them that is the curb weight. You google the curb weight of the M2 CS and you will find 3,417 without CCB and a manual TM. So I highly doubt they weight the same.
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      12-17-2019, 02:48 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by NUTScapes View Post
I mean them grilles don’t even light up for that kind of money?
No but as consolation prize the seats light up. .:-)
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      12-17-2019, 02:49 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
How true, I bought 3 or 4 metal water bottles before I found ones that fit in the cup hole and didn't block the dash buttons. https://www.amazon.com/REYLEO-Insula...8-3&th=1&psc=1
I guess you know this 'old' M2 feature too:



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      12-17-2019, 02:55 PM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I think I'd prefer rear seat with cup holders, but on the flip side it would promote the kids having drinks in back.
My daughter likes the armrest with cupholders of the 40/20/40 rear seats inside my car.
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      12-17-2019, 03:54 PM   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Again, BMW basically confirmed via BMW blog website as they told them that is the curb weight. You google the curb weight of the M2 CS and you will find 3,417 without CCB and a manual TM. So I highly doubt they weight the same.
The weight difference has been covered already.

SportAuto has weighed both cars. Their test M2CS with CCB was 94lbs less than M2C.

According to M CEO CCB rotors are a 55 lbs(25 kg) savings. So a non-CCB optioned M2 CS is about 39 lbs less than the M2C.
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      12-17-2019, 04:18 PM   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
M CEO Markus Flasch :

“They weigh about the same, all things considered, unless you equip the M2 CS with the carbon ceramic brakes which save about 25 kilograms (55 lbs),” Flasch told us.

“The reason for being the same weight as the M2 Competition, is the additional things we put in.”


Both the M2 Comp and M2 CS were said to be 1550kg(3417lbs) in their press releases. See tech sheets.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...cs?language=en
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Again, BMW basically confirmed via BMW blog website as they told them that is the curb weight. You google the curb weight of the M2 CS and you will find 3,417 without CCB and a manual TM. So I highly doubt they weight the same.
I'm not disputing the weight of the CS is listed at 1550kg(3417lbs). The M2 Comp is also listed at 1550kg in its official press release. Keep in mind those press releases are worldwide press releases, Flesch is also most likely referring to Euro spec M2's.

Now all the Euro BMW sites have the Comp and CS listed with same weight. Including Spain, who has their configurator up.

UK BMW site has same weights listed for Comp and CS as well. 1625kg/1650kg(Unladen EU includes 75kg for driver/luggage).
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-0
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-1

The reason I think this is happening is overseas the standard M2 Comp still has lighter 437M wheels, lighter standard M2 seats, lighter blue caliper brakes. Less standard equipment all together for Euro market. I have no doubts base cars do actually weigh the same in Europe/UK. US market will be a different story, since the Comp got most of the upgraded equipment standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
The weight difference has been covered already.

SportAuto has weighed both cars. Their test M2CS with CCB was 94lbs less than M2C.

According to M CEO CCB rotors are a 55 lbs(25 kg) savings. So a non-CCB optioned M2 CS is about 39 lbs less than the M2C.
Their M2 Comp was more heavily optioned. Similar spec to a US version, big brakes, M4 seats, heavy 788m wheels, etc.

Last edited by DieGrüneHölle; 12-17-2019 at 05:07 PM..
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      12-17-2019, 05:08 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
I'm not disputing the weight of the CS is listed at 1550kg(3417lbs). The M2 Comp is also listed at 1550kg in its official press release. Keep in mind those press releases are worldwide press releases, Flesch is also most likely referring to Euro spec M2's.

Now all the Euro BMW sites have the Comp and CS listed with same weight. Including Spain, who has their configurator up.

UK BMW site has same weights listed for Comp and CS as well. 1625kg/1650kg(Unladen EU includes 75kg for driver/luggage).
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-0
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-1

The reason I think this is happening is overseas the standard M2 Comp still has lighter 437M wheels, lighter standard M2 seats, lighter blue caliper breaks. Less standard equipment all together for Euro market. I have no doubts base cars do actually weigh the same in Europe/UK. US market will be a different story, since the Comp got most of the upgraded equipment standard.

Their M2 Comp was more heavily optioned. Similar spec to a US version, big brakes, M4 seats, heavy 788m wheels, etc.

Not sure as the M2 Comp is 3,582 with manual. Not sure where all these stats are coming from? Im just so confused. You google these curb weights and it pops up immeditaly. We shall wait and see I guess. so BMW is lying?
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      12-17-2019, 05:36 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by VTBoss302 View Post
Even though they are completely different vehicles, I like the comparison of the M2 CS to the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

The main advantage of the Rubicon over other trim levels is that it comes from the factory with front and rear locking differentials

For those who actually take their vehicles off-road, lockers are worth their weight in gold

If you're looking to buy a Wrangler to primarily cruise around town with the top off and will rarely, if ever, take it off-road then you would probably be better off buying a different Wrangler than the Rubicon

However, if you want and/or need a more capable 4x4, then the Rubicon starts to make a lot more sense

Aftermarket lockers are expensive to add, require a good installer and are generally not as reliable as factory offerings

Then again, if you're a really hard-core off-roader who plans to do extensive mods and run huge tires, then the Rubicon's D44 axles probably won't be strong enough anyway so might as well buy a less expensive Wrangler and put the money saved towards even beefier axles (such as D60s)

The same type of arguments could be made for the M2 CS

Do you want and/or need things on your M2 the such as the carbon fiber roof, the M adaptive suspension or the Merino leather that would be a bit more challenging to add later on to a M2 C with the same fit, finish and quality as the factory?

Then perhaps the M2 CS is for you

Are you a track rat and likely to gut the interior, install a roll cage, ditch the adaptive suspension, or whatever in search of faster lap times?

Then the M2 CS makes less sense as a starting point unless cost is little to no object

In the end, there is no right answer for everyone
I really like this analogy as I'm in the, riding with top off/regular person category; with both vehicles. I had a Jeep Wrangler, and want to get another one, but just a regular one, not a Rubicon. I also have a regular M2 and am very happy with it, and have no interest in a CS.

One thing about the lesser models of these vehicles is, they are still very capable in stock from. I watched a lot of offload videos on YouTube, and the Wrangler sport was very capable. It was only on the real hard core off-roading were it struggled, and still didn't do that bad with experienced drivers.
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      12-17-2019, 07:11 PM   #855
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When the M2C came out everyone was calling it piggy going by BMW advertised car weights. The M2C was supposed to be 150 pounds more than the OGM2. Then a guy that owned both cars weighed them and the difference was just over 100 pounds. Which could be explained by the heavier 788 wheels, huge brake calipers and more engine cooling.
They will sort out the M2CS weight on scales soon enough. In the mean time I really don't think it will be enough weight difference to be a big deal.
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      12-17-2019, 07:37 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
When the M2C came out everyone was calling it piggy going by BMW advertised car weights. The M2C was supposed to be 150 pounds more than the OGM2. Then a guy that owned both cars weighed them and the difference was just over 100 pounds. Which could be explained by the heavier 788 wheels, huge brake calipers and more engine cooling.
They will sort out the M2CS weight on scales soon enough. In the mean time I really don't think it will be enough weight difference to be a big deal.
+1

When the M2C came out, there were 5,873 posts filled with the rending of garments and lamentations to the heavens over a) its weight, b) the lack of color options, c) the ugly new wheels, d) the fact that it didn't come with a carbon roof, e) its lack of a HUD, f) its inferior Dakota leather, g) the horrible open weave carbon... etc., etc., etc... ad nauseum. And every other comment was, "What a fat s*** car! For the same money I could just go get a lightly used GT4 instead!"

Now that the M2CS is being announced, miraculously, the comments seem to all be, "Well, I knew all along that the M2C was the real value play - see, they upgraded the engine to the S55 and ONLY up-charged $5k. I knew all along that the M2C was the bargain of the century."

Years ago, my buddy's girlfriend was the product manager in charge of Honey Bunches of Oats. My favorite cereal. Yum, yum! Apparently there's a passionate enthusiast community of Honey Bunches of Oats fans. I asked her if she did focus groups with them and got their feedback for product planning. She said, "No. Never. We try to ignore them entirely. They're all idiots. All they do is complain all the time."
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      12-17-2019, 08:05 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
When the M2C came out everyone was calling it piggy going by BMW advertised car weights. The M2C was supposed to be 150 pounds more than the OGM2. Then a guy that owned both cars weighed them and the difference was just over 100 pounds. Which could be explained by the heavier 788 wheels, huge brake calipers and more engine cooling.
They will sort out the M2CS weight on scales soon enough. In the mean time I really don't think it will be enough weight difference to be a big deal.
+1

When the M2C came out, there were 5,873 posts filled with the rending of garments and lamentations to the heavens over a) its weight, b) the lack of color options, c) the ugly new wheels, d) the fact that it didn't come with a carbon roof, e) its lack of a HUD, f) its inferior Dakota leather, g) the horrible open weave carbon... etc., etc., etc... ad nauseum. And every other comment was, "What a fat s*** car! For the same money I could just go get a lightly used GT4 instead!"

Now that the M2CS is being announced, miraculously, the comments seem to all be, "Well, I knew all along that the M2C was the real value play - see, they upgraded the engine to the S55 and ONLY up-charged $5k. I knew all along that the M2C was the bargain of the century."

Years ago, my buddy's girlfriend was the product manager in charge of Honey Bunches of Oats. My favorite cereal. Yum, yum! Apparently there's a passionate enthusiast community of Honey Bunches of Oats fans. I asked her if she did focus groups with them and got their feedback for product planning. She said, "No. Never. We try to ignore them entirely. They're all idiots. All they do is complain all the time."
It's a vicious cycle isn't it?!? Every new car brings forth the same criticisms [and more] compared to the previous car, only for the criticisms to dissipate and people to develop a fondness. People originally gave BMW shit about the E46 M3 (...that heavy pig with crappy steering and a horrible sounding exhaust) then the E9X (..that heavy pig with a V8; V8's aren't meant for BMW M3's.....they are copying MB and breaking I6 tradition!!!!)....then the 1M (...pffft! That's not even a "real" M car. It's a crappy parts bin special with a terrible front end) then the F8X (...that heavy pig with the crappy sounding exhaust and numb steering; gasp! I can't even feel the road at all. It's a wonder how I even get to work!!!!), etc. Now all four of those cars are pretty universally regarded as great cars by the vast majority; the least probable fake even appreciated on the used market a'la Porsche GT cars. The cycle is never ending.
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      12-17-2019, 08:25 PM   #858
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My only complaint about the CS is the price, everything else looks kosher..

I would fux with it, if I could of swing it..

But I understand BMW gotta to eat too and apparently they're having a Kobe steak
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