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      12-08-2019, 11:23 PM   #617
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It's certainly interesting to me that they wouldn't just reward the enthusiast with a great car by selling more of them for a little less. The 1M was and still is popular largely due to the volume of people that could then and still can afford it. You can't build a cult following without a cult. The M2 CS will just wind up being Wikipedia fodder that no one cares about because they've never seen one let alone driven one.
They are a for profit business first and foremost!

Then they are a hat for everyone else. Meaning they have a car for just about every taste. Small, big, slow, fast, low end, high end ect.

Lastly, they cater to the enthusiast.

Unfortunately, just the way of the world these days.

I guess we should just be happy they are still bothering with making cars like the M2cs
Yes. We should all Accept mediocrity.
I'm not saying we should settle for mediocrity.

I'm saying for a company like BMW to still bother with putting out these type of cars is a positive given the general direction of the automotive industry.

The reality is there are other brands that cater more to enthusiasts!......and maybe instead of bitching about what BMW did or didn't do, we should just look elsewhere if we are not satisfied with the offering.

As these cars like the M3gts M3/4cs and M2cs don't do well in the market.........well, eventually BMW will just throw in the towel and not even bother spending the development dollars to bring them to market in the future.

Maybe an eventuality if success is not found....and so far, not looking so great 😩
You make it sound like these cars not doing great isn't something bmw can control - it is.

Price the car properly instead of ripping customers off. There's a start.
So, we don't know what BMW's development and testing costs are as well as a 100 other costs that go into bringing a limited production car to market. We just don't!

I'm not defending their pricing....I'm the first to say it seems high or there is no value ect.

However, they are pricing it to cover costs and make a profit. They are a for profit company.

So, if they can't manage to turn a profit on these limited special edition cars....they are simply not going to continue to make them.

Simple economics!
It's a parts bin car nothing more nothing less.

I'm irritated how BMW tries to do this. That ate a big piece of humble pie on the M4CS.

There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.

Let's hope they learn their lesson.
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      12-09-2019, 05:15 AM   #618
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That ate a big piece of humble pie on the M4CS.

There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.

Let's hope they learn their lesson.
And still, these cars collect dust because the dealerships, at least here in the US, refuse to offer big discounts off of MSRP. I'm seeing nothing less than $105k which, to me, is about $30k more than what the M4 CS model is worth.

Their lesson has yet to be learned.
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      12-09-2019, 05:24 AM   #619
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That ate a big piece of humble pie on the M4CS.

There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.

Let's hope they learn their lesson.
And still, these cars collect dust because the dealerships, at least here in the US, refuse to offer big discounts off of MSRP. I'm seeing nothing less than $105k which, to me, is about $35k more than what the M4 CS model is worth.

Their lesson has yet to be learned.
Yep. I picked up mine for the same price as a new M4 comp pack so for me it was a no brainer.

Don't get me wrong - Love everything about this car - it's the best of the entire generation but not for retail. For retail it's highway robbery.
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      12-09-2019, 05:50 AM   #620
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And still, these cars collect dust because the dealerships, at least here in the US, refuse to offer big discounts off of MSRP. I'm seeing nothing less than $105k which, to me, is about $35k more than what the M4 CS model is worth.
Their lesson has yet to be learned.
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There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.
Let's hope they learn their lesson.
See here:
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Originally Posted by psuibmw View Post
So, BMW did not learn from the M3/M4 CS mistake. These cars sat at dealers lots for long and in order to move them, some were offering $25K off, not good. My guessing it will be same for this car not saying it's a bad ride, but come on 40% over M2C
If I'm informed correctly, BMW got paid for the GTS and CS cars - the dealers paid. But dealers usually learn from what they experience. Apart from some places on the face of the earth known for mark-up frenzy, we can reasonably assume that most dealers will prefer signed M2 CS orders prior to ordering that expensive type of car targeted at a limited audience. I mean, it's quite nice to have a GTS or CS on display in your showroom, but the showroom is not supposed to become a 'museum'.
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They made way less M3 CS than M2 CS and they sat on dealer lots with big discounts in the US market. Perhaps things were different in Europe?
That was actually the point I made in my earlier comment. We're on the same page. Judging by what you find at dealer lots and in ads, GTS and CS (re)sales weren't/aren't particularly smooth.

As commented, dealers and coin-flippers learn from their experiences. For example my dealer: still got an M4 CS and M4 GTS for sale. Those cars get lots of looks, but no-one buys. And as no customer asked for an M3 CS, he did not order one. Therefore my assumption that the same is gonna happen for the M2 CS: most dealers will refrain from ordering it (shelling out a nice lump of cash), except if they got signed orders or if they plan to keep the car for the dealership.
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It may as well be a unicorn.
With 2200 cars worldwide, I would not call it a unicorn:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - produced until Feb 2020 (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 until Dec 2020 (see here).
«Limited edition»...
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      12-09-2019, 07:58 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
It's a parts bin car nothing more nothing less.

I'm irritated how BMW tries to do this. That ate a big piece of humble pie on the M4CS.

There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.

Let's hope they learn their lesson.
What new car are you going to buy if any? Porsche is extremely expensive too. They are selling loaded 911 Carrera S for $150k plus. That is a lot of money for a normal production car that will sit on lots. At least the M2 CS is a limited edition unicorn. It is what it is.

All new cars are expensive. Porsche is more expensive. The new AMG GT53 four door is $100k plus. AMG has massive depreciation. All new cars are expensive especially luxury brands. Hopefully BMW is re-thinking the price of the CS. There is always the used car market.

Last edited by Hegge; 12-09-2019 at 08:10 AM..
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      12-09-2019, 09:56 AM   #622
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What new car are you going to buy if any? Porsche is extremely expensive too. They are selling loaded 911 Carrera S for $150k plus. That is a lot of money for a normal production car that will sit on lots. At least the M2 CS is a limited edition unicorn. It is what it is.
Limited edition? Sure, I guess. Unicorn? No.

If you look at the post above yours, the 2200 M2CS is among the highest of the CS cars... For the 1200 some M3CS's sold, I see 2 regularly near me, cruising the interstates. I've seen at least 3 different M4 GTS's here in Charlotte, the latest being a heavily modified one at C&C.

You can't compare a Porsche's most well known and highly regarded car ever, to a small German coupe with some carbon bits. Not quite the same.
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      12-09-2019, 10:32 AM   #623
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I guess I was trying to show how all luxury cars are expensive. Regarding the 2,200 number, only around 500 are for the US.

I agree with you regarding Porsche being in a different league. I do agree that the M2 CS is not a unicorn but it won't be readily available for long. I wish I could reasonably afford a Carrera S or GT3 without hurting my budget. I think the 992 GT3 will be awesome.

My point here is the M2 CS at around $88K with DCT is still around $50K less than the 911 Carrera S that I built at $137K. I don't think CCB's are worth it, plus future buyers on the resale markets may not want it. At least the M2 CS is limited, they will be building 992 Carrera S for the next 7 years. I don't think there will be many M2 CS on the lot in 2021, whereas there will be no problem getting a Carrera S in 2021.

I think the M2 CS is a good bridge car to a future 911. I'm not pleased with how the G Series M3 and M4 look with the grille, no DCT, AWD, bigger cars, more weight, etc. Plus the G Series M3 and M4 will have a price increase which I'm sure people will be griping about next year this time.

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      12-09-2019, 10:59 AM   #624
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I'm willing to bet the M2 CS will be fantastic, and much less refined than a 911. However, refined does not necessarily equate to fun.
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      12-09-2019, 11:01 AM   #625
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I'm willing to bet the M2 CS will be fantastic, and much less refined than a 911. However, refined does not necessarily equate to fun.
Yep - I think you're right, that the CS will end up being awesome. Just the price that's hard to come to grips with...I am leaning towards getting something else at this point, unless there's a pleasant surprise on the US pricing front.
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      12-09-2019, 11:21 AM   #626
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I guess I was trying to show how all luxury cars are expensive. Regarding the 2,200 number, only around 500 are for the US.

I agree with you regarding Porsche being in a different league. I do agree that the M2 CS is not a unicorn but it won't be readily available for long. I wish I could reasonably afford a Carrera S or GT3 without hurting my budget. I think the 992 GT3 will be awesome.

My point here is the M2 CS at around $88K with DCT is still around $50K less than the 911 Carrera S that I built at $137K. I don't think CCB's are worth it, plus future buyers on the resale markets may not want it. At least the M2 CS is limited, they will be building 992 Carrera S for the next 7 years. I don't think there will be many M2 CS on the lot in 2021, whereas there will be no problem getting a Carrera S in 2021.

I think the M2 CS is a good bridge car to a future 911. I'm not pleased with how the G Series M3 and M4 look with the grille, no DCT, AWD, bigger cars, more weight, etc. Plus the G Series M3 and M4 will have a price increase which I'm sure people will be griping about next year this time.
Oh absolutely, I understood where you trying to come from. I just don't necessarily see the value of the CS, but I'm sure someone else would say the same in regards to how much I, and others, spent on the M2C. The collectibility will help sales, if not be the main driving factor. Exclusivity is HUGE, a major reason I went with the M2C over a Camaro or something, because I don't want to 50 of my car driving around town.

I do think the current F gen cars will hold value though, especially considering how the G series are panning out. I wouldn't be surprised if the F's resale values stagnate when the new models come out based off sheer looks alone. After the M2C though, a Gen V Viper is on my list, and then super end goal for me is a 991.2 GT3 in manual, purple preferred. I've got a long ways until I'm in a place to consider buying either one.
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      12-09-2019, 11:35 AM   #627
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Weighing up the M2CS versus Porsche offerings is an apple vs. oranges comparison, no?

Understanding that nearly all BMWs are a front engine/rear drive layout that offers 4 seats and more versatility and practicality to what Porsche has on offer in the same price bracket (a Cayman or Boxter in S or maybe GTS trim) then the M2CS is a more compelling offer with the practicality that it adds. If you don't need a back seat or a trunk then go buy a Porsche, nobody is stopping you! I agree that at $83k USD the value is harder to justify... and it should be closer to $75k USD as many people have already said.

Concerning the weight, it is the F87 chassis with nearly all development thrown at it (other than a lithium ion battery, CF front fenders, CF trunk and maybe a CF driveshaft). What more can be done? Do you want a car with no interior or no sound deadening? So many people complain that they want a lighter car. All cars are getting heavier right now. Reading the complaints you would think that BMW deliberately made it heavier!

How much does the new C8 Corvette weigh? The new 992? The Mustang GT350 or GT500?

There are so many posts of complaining that the weight is too high. Okay, so if BMW did put EVERYTHING they have into the CS how much more weight would it lose? Another 50lbs? Ok, so then that would be the magic number and everyone would stop complaining then, right?

No? then go buy a Porsche or a Lotus! Oh, wait you need a back seat and they're too expensive?

All of this and nobody has even driven the car yet!

It's funny to read all of the bitching that was posted about the 1M when the specs were released on that. Same old story; "parts bin car" "not special enough" etc, etc.
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      12-09-2019, 11:58 AM   #628
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm willing to bet the M2 CS will be fantastic, and much less refined than a 911. However, refined does not necessarily equate to fun.
Yep - I think you're right, that the CS will end up being awesome. Just the price that's hard to come to grips with...I am leaning towards getting something else at this point, unless there's a pleasant surprise on the US pricing front.
That's the main point:
  • I trust that reviews will confirm over and over again that the M2 CS is definitely a great car, probably one of the best BMW M cars of recent times;
  • but the elephant in the room is the quoted price: an M-DCT M2 CS in BSM/HS/MB officially sets you back about €101.5K over here; and that's pretty ambitious for this Über 2 Series car; price-wise, it's punching above its weight; as I commented before, there is IMHO a 'mismatch' between the car and the price-tag; M2 CS: the good, the bad and the ugly: design/looks, weight and price.
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      12-09-2019, 01:06 PM   #629
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I swear, some of guys here just love to play Devil's Advocate..

A couple of months ago, the M2C was offered a 24k individual paint job.

I lamented that the M2 target demographic will and can't pay for such an option.

Some of you guys swore up and down that the M2 appeals to the 1%-ers and then engaged in a heated debate about its greatness

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24825425

Now, BMW is actually offering an upgraded vehicle, with free paint, for coincidently 24k more but this time they're trying to rip off their consumers.

85k is a lot of money for a vehicle but it's an appropriate price considering that's it's a limited edition model (I know, "parts-bin") and commanders a higher MSRP to recoup the cost of development, when divided by only 2,200 units worldwide.

Just let it be and if it's too expensive for your budget, the M2C is still and will always be a great value.
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      12-09-2019, 02:14 PM   #630
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I think the M2 CS is a good bridge car to a future 911.
What?!!

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      12-09-2019, 02:19 PM   #631
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
It's a parts bin car nothing more nothing less.

I'm irritated how BMW tries to do this. That ate a big piece of humble pie on the M4CS.

There is a reason M4CS cars litter dealerships around the globe.

Let's hope they learn their lesson.
What new car are you going to buy if any? Porsche is extremely expensive too. They are selling loaded 911 Carrera S for $150k plus. That is a lot of money for a normal production car that will sit on lots. At least the M2 CS is a limited edition unicorn. It is what it is.

All new cars are expensive. Porsche is more expensive. The new AMG GT53 four door is $100k plus. AMG has massive depreciation. All new cars are expensive especially luxury brands. Hopefully BMW is re-thinking the price of the CS. There is always the used car market.
Money isn't the issue here.

I bought the M4CS because it's a great car. The best of this generation f80/82. I love almost everything about it.

But I work hard for my money and don't believe in flushing money down the toilet. Im blessed with not having to count pennies but I don't like being made the fool by BMW when they say the M4CS is worth 210 K Australian new. The joke is on them.

And I'm not paying $150 K for a 2 series parts bin car that wears a fake CS badge - sorry. Not because I can't afford it - it's just not smart. The M2 comp is the sweet spot for me price wise but the interior seat leather lacks compared to the M3/M4.

A Porsche carerra GTS low mileage will be my next car largely because it's a phenomenal drive and engine plus bmw won't be offering a DCT in the next M3/M4 and that's a deal breaker. The big grill is the final nail in the coffin for me and I'll be moving on. At 220-250K near new the Porsche is a little overpriced but they hold value very well over a 4 year lease which helps when I need to move it on.
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      12-09-2019, 02:26 PM   #632
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If the M2 Comp didn't exist with the recent S55 swap. Everyone would say the CS pricing makes sense, because it got the M motor/cooling and base M2 has a N55. But the M2 Comp replaced the N55 M2 and only got a $5k bump, with a motor swap and air to water cooling...that makes CS pricing look high.

Last edited by hellrotm; 12-09-2019 at 02:46 PM..
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      12-09-2019, 02:37 PM   #633
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Good thread in the track section with an experienced driver setting up his M2. Most seem to stick their noses up at the adaptive suspension, but I thought this was an interesting comment.


Quote:
The suspension needs attention. Through 8 & 9 there are bumps. They unsettled the back end really badly - skip and wheel spin. The car pitches and rolls a bit more "floppy" than I'd like too.

Riding with a student in his M3, with his mag ride set to sport, was a totally different ride. His car felt very planted and compliant over the same section. He had traction and control - and the guy was a very good driver (his consistency around the track is better than mine - laughed about this quite a bit too. damn him). Took the student out in my car and he commented immediately about it too.
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      12-09-2019, 02:38 PM   #634
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If you only want one car - and the two options are Porsche and BMW - then you either want a Porsche or BMW for how different they are across models . . . not because of the similarities.

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      12-09-2019, 02:39 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
If the M2 Comp didn't exist with the recent S55 swap. Everyone would say the CS pricing makes sense, because it got the M motor/cooling and base M2 has a N55. But the M2 Comp replaced the N55 M2 and only got a $5k bump, with a motor swap and air to water cooling...that makes CS pricing looks high.
That's a fair point.
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      12-10-2019, 09:41 AM   #636
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I think most of the unrest about the price is, what exactly does the CS add? We have an unrestricted S55, which is great, but the rest is some carbon bits, lack of keyless entry, lack of dual zone climate, lack of arm rest, some different colors, a carbon roof, limited production, and a CS slapped onto the side of the M2.

If money were no object (as in a couple mill), I would 100% buy one just for exclusivity. Problem is, money is an object, and I don't see where the extra $23,000 went.
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      12-10-2019, 10:28 AM   #637
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I believe it's easy to see where the extra coin went if looking at everything that was added from an MSRP of components. However as most have shown the parts can be had much cheaper. Most seem to have an issue with the performance per dollar perspective.

I still believe we continue to have two intertwined discussions that keep resulting in conflicting debate because both sides have a reasonable case for their point.

1. Which is the quicker, faster, more refined factory version?
2. Which version is the best value?

My opinion
1. It is clearly the CS, and it should be as potentially last of this M2 iteration, more dedication to squeaking out everything from this chassis in a reliable warrantied form.
2. The C is the better value when considering weight, and tunability from a purely cost for performance perspective.

Folks can either pay for the best iteration of this generation, or pay for the best value of this generation and modify until their hearts content. There's no right or wrong but personal preference.
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      12-10-2019, 10:33 AM   #638
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I believe it's easy to see where the extra coin went if looking at everything that was added from an MSRP of components. However as most have shown the parts can be had much cheaper. Most seem to have an issue with the performance per dollar perspective.

Folks can either pay for the best iteration of this generation, or pay for the best value of this generation and modify until their hearts content. There's no right or wrong but personal preference.
MSRP of the overpriced BMW M parts, or MSRP of parts that people would actually buy to put on their own cars? There are 2 aftermarket carbon hoods that both cost less than half of the M Perf hood. There are a couple of great options for exhausts that are cheaper than the M Perf exhaust, while also being lighter. I honestly view the CS to the rest of the M2's as I do a Rubicon Jeep to other trim level Jeeps. You are paying for the manufacturer to parts on it for you, it just so happens that this 'parts added' car is limited production.

Like I said though, if money were no object, I would get the M2CS just for exclusivity sake. In the meantime, I will modify my M2C and perfectly content.
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