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      01-10-2017, 03:45 PM   #1
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6MT vs DCT & exhaust sound - performance

The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
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      01-10-2017, 04:26 PM   #2
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I had DCT on my previous M3, so I went 6MT with my M2. As a daily, DCT would've been a better choice for convenience but I absolutely love the 6MT interaction. I would say it is close to a short-shifter as compared to a few other cars I've driven (haven't driven a GT4 but have driven a regular Carrera S). The M2 shifts are very notchy and feel great.

Yes, the exhaust note and overall characteristics change quite a bit in Sport+, louder and more burbles. I added the MPE, so the sound is turned up to a 10 (almost comically loud burbles).

One thing that surprised me with the 6MT is how short 1st gear is. I almost want to start in 2nd gear every time, so I'm also interested to hear a few DCT owner reviews that have come from the F8x generation M's.

If this were my decision, especially for the wife, I would go DCT.
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      01-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #3
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I'm very happy with DKG. When the car has just started up and it's cold, the first shift, when the car engages gear has a lovely mechanical clack noise, which I love. It can be a little grouchy till it warms up, but I like that, too.

At WOT, in sport+, shifting from 1-2 will spin the wheels for at least a second, on one occasion, along with a sensation that your car has been rear-ended by a truck, further shifts at WOT will chirp the wheels. It's violent and mechanical, and I love it. I also don't get that annoying boost drop between shifts that I experienced in a manual. I don't think you need to worry about 15 customisable settings. ///M engineers have picked the best ones, you just enjoy driving the car, whatever transmission you choose.
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      01-10-2017, 05:51 PM   #4
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DCT is statistically superior in drivability and performance in all cars. I got the 6MT to maximize the fun factor. I know I'll never get the full performance out of the engine but I'll smile every time I feel the clutch under my foot and the shifter snick in my hand. I've had the DCT in my former '09 M3 and enjoyed it but it isn't as magic as the 6MT.
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      01-10-2017, 06:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
i would say the manual is about as far from a gt4 as you can get, the clutch is kind of heavy with the gt4 and the throw is short and crisp (not rubbery). rev matching is disabled by default in the gt4 and can be enabled in any traction control setting.

the clutch in the m2 is extremely light, the throw is longer and there's more play and rubbery feel to the engagement. rev matching is only disabled w/ traction control. the manual in the m2 is good, but very different than the gt4.
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      01-10-2017, 06:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovewagons View Post
I'm very happy with DKG. When the car has just started up and it's cold, the first shift, when the car engages gear has a lovely mechanical clack noise, which I love. It can be a little grouchy till it warms up, but I like that, too.

At WOT, in sport+, shifting from 1-2 will spin the wheels for at least a second, on one occasion, along with a sensation that your car has been rear-ended by a truck, further shifts at WOT will chirp the wheels. It's violent and mechanical, and I love it. I also don't get that annoying boost drop between shifts that I experienced in a manual. I don't think you need to worry about 15 customisable settings. ///M engineers have picked the best ones, you just enjoy driving the car, whatever transmission you choose.
Having brought up driving MT back from my 2002/320i/325is days, I contemplated long and hard as well between MT and DCT. At the end, I opted for DCT and have no regrets, especially when it's my daily drive through downtown traffic.

Luckily, my son's M240 just arrived and I was able to compare the two trans. Similar to the MT M3/M4's I've driven, I agree 1st gear's way too short on brisk accelerations.

As others have indicated, the DCT is well suited to the N55 turbo with no drop in boost between shifts. in Sports+, it's so intoxicating to be able to chirp the tires between 1st/2nd, and 2nd/3rd shifts. And the "secret" burb sound's present on the DCT as well.

You can't go wrong with either trans.
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      01-10-2017, 08:53 PM   #7
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I don't regret getting the manual. HOWEVER, I have to tell you, this rev matching thing is kind of irritating. I certainly wish I could disable it without putting myself at risk (sport +). In fact, I think they got it reversed, it should be ON in sport+ and off otherwise.

So... long story short, I find the manual in the M2 far from perfect (as noted, very light clutch, somewhat long throws, late take up on the clutch) and I still would order it again.
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      01-10-2017, 09:44 PM   #8
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You're really thinking about getting your wife a manual car???
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      01-10-2017, 09:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
Happy Wife, Happy Life
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      01-10-2017, 10:37 PM   #10
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You're really thinking about getting your wife a manual car???
Mine would have it no other way.
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      01-11-2017, 06:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I don't regret getting the manual. HOWEVER, I have to tell you, this rev matching thing is kind of irritating. I certainly wish I could disable it without putting myself at risk (sport +). In fact, I think they got it reversed, it should be ON in sport+ and off otherwise.

So... long story short, I find the manual in the M2 far from perfect (as noted, very light clutch, somewhat long throws, late take up on the clutch) and I still would order it again.
I'm not sure when excessive clutch travel became desirable. It's not like we have manual clutch adjustments anymore. There's an inexpensive clutch stop/bumper you can swap out the stock stop and get rid of the excess movement. I've adjusted but I always feel like I'm being lazy and depress just to the point of disengagement and rarely hit the stop. Modern transmissions almost make clutches secondary to shifting if you rev match.
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      01-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
You're really thinking about getting your wife a manual car???
Why not? She now drives a Golf 7 GTI manual as a daily... In EU, everybody (and I mean everybody) can drive stick, as automatics are usually a very expensive option and some cars don't even have it an an option... Heck, my 20yo daughter drives a manual... I really don't see the problem
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      01-12-2017, 05:03 PM   #13
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Thanks guys, from what I read, the manual is:
- rubbery
- long throws and not as sporty as some internet reviewers make it be
- auto revving is irritating and can't be switched off (no, I'm not going to ask my wife to daily drive it in full hero mode)
- long clutch travel

which make the decision for the DCT a no brainer... yes, it's a very expensive option here, like 8% of the total cost of the car, but the plus side is that taxes will be much less as the CO2 goes down from 199 to 185, which compensates for a bit...I was just hoping that the manual would be a bit like the one in our GTI, short throws, very mechanical with a firm clunk, a joy to use, which it apparently is not... Thanks for the replies
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      01-12-2017, 05:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Thanks guys, from what I read, the manual is:
- rubbery
- long throws and not as sporty as some internet reviewers make it be
- auto revving is irritating and can't be switched off (no, I'm not going to ask my wife to daily drive it in full hero mode)
- long clutch travel

which make the decision for the DCT a no brainer... yes, it's a very expensive option here, like 8% of the total cost of the car, but the plus side is that taxes will be much less as the CO2 goes down from 199 to 185, which compensates for a bit...I was just hoping that the manual would be a bit like the one in our GTI, short throws, very mechanical with a firm clunk, a joy to use, which it apparently is not... Thanks for the replies
Based on my test drive of an M4, which supposedly has a MT indistinguishable from the M2 MT (my M2 test drive was with a DCT) I agree with these criticisms. Pedal stroke too long, pedal far too light, shifter throws too long and sits too high, with not enough engagement feel.

All those observations may mean nothing more than I'm a 20th century dinosaur, but so be it. I know how I like my sticks.

Accordingly, on the 23rd of this month, my shop will be installing in my by-then delivered 6MT M2 an Ultimate Clutch Pedal--which allows for shortening the stroke and increasing the pedal resistance--as well as a UUC short shift kit--which lowers the knob, shortens the shifter throw and gives engagement a more positive, bolt-action feel.

Reports from f80/82 drivers on the UCP have been positive, as has a report from a regular poster here on the UUC kit.

For anybody interested in these, I will post my impressions.
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      01-12-2017, 05:36 PM   #15
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Very true
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      01-12-2017, 07:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
Maybe the best way is to test the manual M2... I have found one at BMW Bornem this summer and did a testdrive with a manual M2 vs DCT M4 vs DCT M2 (from a BMW dealer). I ordered a manual M2 this summer...

I only have driven my own manual M2 for 200km and all I can say is that I really love the gearbox itself and the shift action. But I'm still getting used to de long pedal travel of the clutch (when releasing the clutch)....this travel is way longer then in every other manual BMW I haver ever driven/owned (has nothing to do with a clutch stop). I already noticed this on the short testrun this summer with the test manual M2 and I don't get it why they made it this way... I hope I will get used to this...otherwise I will fit a UCP clutch pedal.

Copy & Paste of my own opinion about the Manual vs DCT... This was a really hard decision for me to make after the testdrive...

Quote:
The M2 will be my daily car replacing my 12 year old e46 325i M-tech wagon (with manual gearbox). I also have a modified 2006 Z4M roadster sitting in my garage for sun, fun and track…. The Z4M is a keeper! The M2 will mainly be my daily and will also come on track (Nurburgring) 8 times a year (instead of my Z4M).

When I ordered my M2 I had the same problem and the DCT vs manual drove me crazy! I first ordered a manual Black M2, then changed to a DCT Black M2 and then changed again to a manual Mineral Grey M2
This manual mineral grey was also the spec when I made my very first online building spec for a M2 to see what my estimated price would be, before visiting a dealer and doing a test drive.

I had a test M2 DCT for 3 hours, a M2 manual for 1 hour and a M4 DCT for 1 hour. The first testdrive was with the M2 DCT. When I picked up the M2 it already won me over after 15min of testing and I was tempted to buy a M2 DCT. Then I needed to decide the color and gearbox...so I also did a test with a manual M2 and again with a M4 DCT (back to back).

In the past I borrowed an e90 M3 DCT from a friend for one week and lived with it on a daily basis. I did not like the gearbox in city and slow stop and go traffic (I hated it when parking in tight spots). On normal roads the DCT made me want to drive the car realy fast to enjoy the fast shifts. For me the DCT gearbox is at his best when driving realy fast or on a track...then it is an extra value and awesome piece (personal opinion). After two days in city traffic I stopped using the manual gearshifts of the DKG and just put it in D... It made me feel like a leazy driver in the e90 M3.

I have read almost every review about the M2 and how good and involving the manual gearbox is suppose to be. So I also did a test drive with a manual M2. The manual gearbox of the M2 is not perfect! The clutch pedal felt really soft...for me it could be a little heavier with more feeling...but it is not that big of an issue. The movement of the cluth pedal is really long (a lot longer then on my Z4M and e46 325i). I was amazed at how long the travel of the clutch pedal is and that I never saw it mentioned in any review? When releasing the clutch your knee gets really high...the end of the movement of the cluth is rather high (if you know what I mean)

With the manual gearbox you can feel the effect of turbo lag a little more then with the DCT. THe DCT shifts faster so there is less drop in rev's. The DCT has 7 instead of 6 gears, so the gearing is also shorter and it feels that you keep the engine more in the powerband with feeling less turbo lag.

When I made my pro & con's list…the DCT had more con's for me then the manual. IMO the M2 is a car that is more about involvement and a little back to basic driving pleasure (in a modern package). I felt the manual gearbox suited the M2 personality better. With the bigger f80 M3/M4 I would probably also choose DCT. It's a great gearbox and I understand why people would like to have it.... In the end I choose the gearbox with the heart and I ordered a manual M2.

I have read almost every review of the M2
Most reviewers say both gearboxes are equally good and it's down to personal preference of the buyer. If they do have a personal preference then in most cases it's the manual gearbox. This is coming from people who drive a lot of different cars and who love driving.

BMW M2 reviews
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/bmw-m2-r...

http://mashable.com/2016/02/16/2017-bmw-m2-coupe-r...

In favor of manual gearbox
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/03/14/the-bmw-m2-dc...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/434143/2016-bmw-m2-rev...

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-bmw-m2-is-bmws-middle...

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m2/page/0/2

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-m...

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      01-12-2017, 07:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Based on my test drive of an M4, which supposedly has a MT indistinguishable from the M2 MT (my M2 test drive was with a DCT) I agree with these criticisms. Pedal stroke too long, pedal far too light, shifter throws too long and sits too high, with not enough engagement feel.

All those observations may mean nothing more than I'm a 20th century dinosaur, but so be it. I know how I like my sticks.

Accordingly, on the 23rd of this month, my shop will be installing in my by-then delivered 6MT M2 an Ultimate Clutch Pedal--which allows for shortening the stroke and increasing the pedal resistance--as well as a UUC short shift kit--which lowers the knob, shortens the shifter throw and gives engagement a more positive, bolt-action feel.

Reports from f80/82 drivers on the UCP have been positive, as has a report from a regular poster here on the UUC kit.

For anybody interested in these, I will post my impressions.

I will be very interested in this as I want the clutch pedal you are having installed.
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      01-12-2017, 07:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Thanks guys, from what I read, the manual is:
- rubbery
- long throws and not as sporty as some internet reviewers make it be
- auto revving is irritating and can't be switched off (no, I'm not going to ask my wife to daily drive it in full hero mode)
- long clutch travel

which make the decision for the DCT a no brainer... yes, it's a very expensive option here, like 8% of the total cost of the car, but the plus side is that taxes will be much less as the CO2 goes down from 199 to 185, which compensates for a bit...I was just hoping that the manual would be a bit like the one in our GTI, short throws, very mechanical with a firm clunk, a joy to use, which it apparently is not... Thanks for the replies
the throw isn't overly long, but compared to the GT4 it feels long. i honestly think the GT4 has the best manual transmission i've ever used, so it's a tough act to follow. the m2 manual isn't bad at all
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      01-12-2017, 07:45 PM   #19
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I will be very interested in this as I want the clutch pedal you are having installed.
+1
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      01-25-2017, 03:18 PM   #20
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On Sunday I had a test drive with the DCT... Awesome, power is obviously down on my M4, but it's a much more focused car...as if the M4 cab is a very fast cruiser and if you ask it, it will play along on the back roads. The M2 is more of a terrier who is nagging to go the the back roads and gun it. Very enjoyable little car. The only thing which is a huge 'nah' is the interior, just plain 2 series, and the M performance exhaust, which was droning like crazy. Not for everyday use, at least not for me nor for my wife. In 2 weeks I have a test drive scheduled with the manual, so I'm curious, even though I think I will order the DCT anyhow. I just know the auto rev-matching will drive me crazy, but I'm openminded
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      01-25-2017, 03:39 PM   #21
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My two cents. I'd buy my wife the DCT. The DCT will change quicker than a human ever could a manual. It's .2 seconds quicker 0-63mph and more importantly will give better gas mileage due to the extra gear. The 7 speed has a closer ratio between gears so will mean you can stay on the power more often.

The manual has 50/50 weight distribution & considered 'better' by purists.

Best I can give you is don't let anyone convince you 'buying a dct means your not a real car guy' a real race driver would have the dct... a drag racer would have a dct and a circuit racer would have the dct.

Edit: I'm old fashioned and learnt to drive in the days when you had no ABS, no traction control & only 4 gears. I'm also cheap and purchased a manual
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      01-25-2017, 03:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommitConfirm View Post
My two cents. I'd buy my wife the DCT. The DCT will change quicker than a human ever could a manual. It's .2 seconds quicker 0-63mph and more importantly will give better gas mileage due to the extra gear. The 7 speed has a closer ratio between gears so will mean you can stay on the power more often.

The manual has 50/50 weight distribution & considered 'better' by purists.

Best I can give you is don't let anyone convince you 'buying a dct means your not a real car guy' a real race driver would have the dct... a drag racer would have a dct and a circuit racer would have the dct.
A very sensible post, and I agree fully. I don't care what people say about manuals and like I mentioned, it will 99% be the DCT, I just want to experience what the hype is all about...unless Harris and the likes are right and it blows me away, with the info I have, I don't see myself getting the manual.
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