BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > Experiencing wheel-hop issue with DSC OFF + Contis on second hand M2

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-10-2019, 06:42 PM   #45
termigni
Lieutenant Colonel
termigni's Avatar
United_States
1050
Rep
1,775
Posts

Drives: S2000, X6,M2, Model3, 911
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Guys, please, do a search on it, it's everywhere, and on the M3 and M4 as well. Common issue.

I have the stock Conti tires on the car, and they are new, literally less than a thousand miles on them.
M3/4 aren't the same car as m2. My Lci is smooth as butter
__________________
2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold

Instagram: Tommys911
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2019, 07:24 PM   #46
VisualEcho
Major
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
1370
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
M3/4 aren't the same car as m2. My Lci is smooth as butter
Yes, I know, I was just saying that they have the problem as well.
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2019, 02:14 AM   #47
M Fifty
Captain
329
Rep
873
Posts

Drives: M2 & 330CI
Join Date: May 2018
Location: The Interweb

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Yes, I know, I was just saying that they have the problem as well.
Could you provide some links to the problems M3/4 drivers are having with this? They may have come up with some useful ideas.

The diff may also be having an effect if you're trying to spin up the rear tires with quite a bit of steering lock applied and a low traction surface.

HTH
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2019, 06:58 AM   #48
VisualEcho
Major
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
1370
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Could you provide some links to the problems M3/4 drivers are having with this? They may have come up with some useful ideas.

The diff may also be having an effect if you're trying to spin up the rear tires with quite a bit of steering lock applied and a low traction surface.

HTH
Just type "BMW M3 wheel hop" into Google and you'll get the phone book. It's pervasive across the brand.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 03:21 AM   #49
M Fifty
Captain
329
Rep
873
Posts

Drives: M2 & 330CI
Join Date: May 2018
Location: The Interweb

iTrader: (0)

Well, congratulations on being the first to post about it with the M2.
Appreciate 1
termigni1049.50

      10-12-2019, 04:26 AM   #50
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I have to say, I'm 49 and have had mostly RWD manual trans cars all my life. RX-7, MR-2, Starion ESiR, Miata, S2000, Impreza STi, Exige, etc. And ALL of them would smoothly let go (even the AWD STi), especially in the rain. The Starion would get a little wheel hop here and there, but nothing major.
And this M2, I mean, it's terrible, no? I mean, it's not even fun. You're either at 10/10th's (which I'll never be) or you're hopping. Why has BMW not fixed this issue?? I mean, I can't even have a LITTLE fun in the rain.
What am I Missing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I've never dumped the clutch in this car, and never will. The hop happens for me when I'm leaving the car wash, or when it's wet outside. I turn all the nannies off expecting to get some nice low-speed sideways action and I get hopping instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I need an oil change at the end of the month, I'll have it checked then. I bought the car with 9,400 miles on it and it just had new tires and an alignment, but checking it can't hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Well, congratulations on being the first to post about it with the M2.
OP, was your car involved in an accident before you bought it ?
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 07:14 AM   #51
M Fifty
Captain
329
Rep
873
Posts

Drives: M2 & 330CI
Join Date: May 2018
Location: The Interweb

iTrader: (0)

GM have a Patent on how to:

"Problematically, axle shafts frequently exhibit “powerhop” when a large amount of torque is applied thereto. Powerhop typically occurs when tire friction with respect to a road surface is periodically exceeded by low frequency (i.e., below about 20 Hz) oscillations in torsional windup of the axle shafts. Powerhop produces oscillatory feedback to suspension and driveline components and can be felt by the vehicle occupants, who may describe the sensation as “bucking,” “banging,” “kicking” or “hopping.”

An independently suspended, driven axle shaft set in which the axle shafts are asymmetric with respect to each other, wherein the asymmetry provides mitigation of powerhop. The axle shafts are asymmetrically selected such that the relative torsional stiffness therebetween is different by a ratio substantially between about 1.4 to 1 and about 2.0 to 1. The asymmetry may be provided by any known modality that alters torsional stiffness and is compliant with operational load demands of the axle shafts, as for example the axle shafts having the same length, but differing cross-sectional diameters; or by the axle shafts having the same cross-sectional diameters, but differing lengths; or a combination thereof."

May explain why the part numbers are different for each driveshaft on the M2...
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 07:27 AM   #52
VisualEcho
Major
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
1370
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
OP, was your car involved in an accident before you bought it ?
No sir, driven very lightly. The only thing I've found is a $700 comprehensive claim, to which I can't find a reason, and the previous owner complained about the brakes so BMW replaced all 4 pads and rotors. And the selling dealership thought the tires were marginal, so they replaced a 4 with the exact same tires that were on it (Conti's, unfortunately).

Other than some remnants of slight condensation in the right rear tail-light (along with the turn signal malfunction) the car just has a few chips here and there, but no accidents or paintwork at all.

Oh, and it had an alignment when the tires were put on at 9,000 miles. Maybe they got the specs wrong?
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 09:35 AM   #53
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
No sir, driven very lightly. The only thing I've found is a $700 comprehensive claim, to which I can't find a reason, and the previous owner complained about the brakes so BMW replaced all 4 pads and rotors. And the selling dealership thought the tires were marginal, so they replaced a 4 with the exact same tires that were on it (Conti's, unfortunately).
Other than some remnants of slight condensation in the right rear tail-light (along with the turn signal malfunction) the car just has a few chips here and there, but no accidents or paintwork at all.
Oh, and it had an alignment when the tires were put on at 9,000 miles. Maybe they got the specs wrong?
I have read thousands of M2 posts on this board and your car issue does not immediately ring a bell in my mind. My car is close to 60K kms and never required any wheel alignment. Went through my initial set of Michelin PSS, which I replaced with Michelin PS4S on my 437M wheels + also got Michelin PS4S on my 763M wheels. No issues. And I can give those quite the spurs when I'm taking my car over the mountains: planted and compliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
BMW replaced all 4 pads and rotors [...] they replaced all 4 [tires] with the exact same tires that were on it
Is it possible that your (young) car was involved in some kind of incident during transport, that got fixed before delivery ? Is there rim rash (or signs of repaired rim rash) on one of your wheels (tell-tale sign of an encounter with a curb) ? Why did the previous owner sell the 9K miles car ?

Maybe try this:
  • visit this BMW VIN Decoder here;
  • indicate the last 7 characters of the VIN of your M2 (+ eventually complete the CAPTCHA);
  • check in the displayed VIN specs for the production date of your car;
  • put your car on a bridge and check closely for date stamps that are sometimes indicated on parts and stickers attached to parts:
    • all date stamps prior to production date: OK;
    • a date stamp past/post production date: ask for an explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
the car just has a few chips here and there, but no accidents or paintwork at all.
Use a paint meter to check:

__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
VisualEcho1370.00

      10-12-2019, 10:23 AM   #54
AlpsRider
Colonel
AlpsRider's Avatar
1755
Rep
2,718
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I have read thousands of M2 posts on this board and your car issue does not immediately ring a bell in my mind. My car is close to 60K kms and never required any wheel alignment. Went through my initial set of Michelin PSS, which I replaced with Michelin PS4S on my 437M wheels + also got Michelin PS4S on my 763M wheels. No issues. And I can give those quite the spurs when I'm taking my car over the mountains: planted and compliant.
How do you find the MPS 4S compared to the MPSS? Are they as smooth drifting, break away, turn in? Did you go up one size to 255/275...probably not allowed in Europe?
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 10:45 AM   #55
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
How do you find the MPS 4S compared to the MPSS? Are they as smooth drifting, break away, turn in? Did you go up one size to 255/275...probably not allowed in Europe?
My current M2 set-up:
  • PS4S on my 437M wheels: 245/35 R19 (F) + 265/35 R19 (F)
  • PS4S on my 763M wheels: 255/35 R19 (F) + 275/35 R19 (F)
In my experience PS4S tires beat PSS tires (my original M2 tires) + 763M wheels beat 437M wheels.

Improved road behavior in the rain. Definitely less interference of DSC nannies when PTTM* out of mountain hairpins + only rare DSC nannies interference anywhere else. I told my mountain friends that it's probably placebo effect inside my mind, but they denied that: lighter weight of the 763M + more tire surface + laws of physics = improved grip and improved turn-in/out.

*PTTM: Pedal-To-The-Metal

1 notch up regarding M2 tire size = minor speedometer deviation (table by mToronto):


__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 2
Poochie4530.00
cptobvious2047.00

      10-12-2019, 10:59 AM   #56
AlpsRider
Colonel
AlpsRider's Avatar
1755
Rep
2,718
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Thank you! I am debating whether to go up to 255/275 35 MPS 4S. I just don't want to loose the playfulness that my car now has. Do you feel there is much difference in grip feeling between stock size and 255/275?
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #57
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Thank you! I am debating whether to go up to 255/275 35 MPS 4S. I just don't want to loose the playfulness that my car now has. Do you feel there is much difference in grip feeling between stock size and 255/275?
As you may expect, it's very subtle. But please note that I'm not into drifts and burnouts - that ain't my kinda thing. I prefer to zip through the corners fast but safe, without slip and with all nannies active (Sport Mode). Maximum grip. Got that approach from driving karts many moons ago.

Going up and down Stelvio pass in Italy earlier this year (763M + PS4S). Pre-breakfast stint Bormio-Stelvio-Bormio (including an emergency maneuver to avoid a marmot crossing the road on a fast stretch of the pass...):
Name:  Tire_Temps_June19.jpg
Views: 270
Size:  293.9 KB
Name:  Stelvio_June19.jpg
Views: 263
Size:  394.8 KB
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 11:57 AM   #58
VisualEcho
Major
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
1370
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Is it possible that your (young) car was involved in some kind of incident during transport, that got fixed before delivery?
I suppose it's possible, but with the car perfect in every other way, unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Is there rim rash (or signs of repaired rim rash) on one of your wheels (tell-tale sign of an encounter with a curb)?
None, and they are the original wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Why did the previous owner sell the 9K miles car?
No idea, it's one of the reasons I wanted to contact the original owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Use a paint meter to check.
I've done body-work for the better part of 30 years, so no need for the meter, I can tell nothing on the car has been repainted.

But thank you for all your suggestions .
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 12:02 PM   #59
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I suppose it's possible, but with the car perfect in every other way, unlikely.
But thank you for all your suggestions .
Check possible date stamps. Easy-peasy.
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
VisualEcho1370.00

      10-12-2019, 12:35 PM   #60
hlm2c
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Korea

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
My current M2 set-up:
  • PS4S on my 437M wheels: 245/35 R19 (F) + 265/35 R19 (F)
  • PS4S on my 763M wheels: 255/35 R19 (F) + 275/35 R19 (F)
1 notch up regarding M2 tire size = minor speedometer deviation
Normally the speedometer reports us as +3 kph over what we're actually travelling on 245/265 MPSS. When you swapped to 255/275 MPS4S, what change did that make in regards to the speedometer?
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #61
amrk47
Private
23
Rep
59
Posts

Drives: 18 F87 M2
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

I get it too when my rear tires are starting to wear out, when it first happened I thought there was something wrong with the car, but now I just get that its a characteristic of the car/tire, running sport cup 2
Appreciate 1
VisualEcho1370.00

      10-12-2019, 12:51 PM   #62
akkando
Brigadier General
3356
Rep
4,446
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Well, congratulations on being the first to post about it with the M2.
I've had it on mine but it's been a while since I've noticed it. I think the pavement you're on has a lot to do with it, tires, and state of tires for wear and heat.

I had Conti tires at first, maybe that's when I first experienced it. Since I've put on mps4s tires in 245/265 then 255/275.

I don't attempt a lot of burn outs though. Just from a dead stop in auto or manual mode then punching it no problems now. If I kept it in first and just tried to spin the tires it might start to hop though, but I'd rather not burn up my tires while not moving.
Appreciate 1
Moflow834.00

      10-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #63
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
12018
Rep
10,187
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlm2c View Post
Normally the speedometer reports us as +3 kph over what we're actually travelling on 245/265 MPSS. When you swapped to 255/275 MPS4S, what change did that make in regards to the speedometer?
I can confirm what alscks0414 commented in the past in the dedicated thread here ("Increasing size to 255 & 275 any cons?"): minor deviation, speed needle is closer to real speed.

130 km/u indicated on my dashboard:
  • 127 km/h real speed with the 245/265 set-up (stock size);
  • 128 km/h real speed with the 255/275 set-up (adjusted size).
I've noticed that the ODB/ECU logged a P1766 code ('Engine Speed Plausibility'), but that code is only displayed with an ODB/ECU reader (no sign of the code on the onboard computer or iDrive).

Furthermore, no rubbing and a bit meatier filling up the wheel wells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alscks0414 View Post
Hey guys,
All vehicles regardless of makes, do develop their electronic measures of cars based on their manufactured spec.
LSD, suspension, engine throttle, and other ECU controlled features will be basically working as "what manufacturer intended" when you are keeping all things as state as it came.
Tire sizes will be one of the component as well.
However, remember that a lot of different model vehicles do offer different wheel sizes but they will relatively change their tire sidewall profile so that rolling diameter of vehicle will not differ much. They set about 1% (or less) of difference of rolling diameter will not alter the driving characteristic of one vehicle and will not give much stress on ECU controls and other physical components. (Same thing goes for AWD, xDrive. If you wish to go with staggered wheels + tires setup front and rear, engineers recommend you to stay within 1% difference of rolling diameter front and back).
If you do go over this 1% boundary, you could potentially run into "different driving characteristic from what manufacturer initially intended".
All makes do spend tons of hours to develop their car and when it comes to sports cars that requires precisely measured values and input, they will spend more time for research to decide what they will do before any vehicle released for sale. But, of course, they are not perfect... resulting into recalls and extensive repairs, etc.
Going back to the topic, 245/35/19F + 265/35/19R and 255/35/19F + 275/35/19R does make their difference in rolling diameter about 1.07% front and 1.05% at the rear. And I would not consider this as "major difference" for ECU control measures and driving dynamics.

Cheers
M2 tire size changes impact (table by mToronto):
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
hlm2c135.50

      10-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #64
hlm2c
Second Lieutenant
United_States
136
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Korea

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I can confirm what alscks0414 commented in the past in the dedicated thread here ("Increasing size to 255 & 275 any cons?"): minor deviation, speed needle is closer to real speed.

130 km/u indicated on my dashboard:
  • 127 km/h real speed with the 245/265 set-up (stock size);
  • 128 km/h real speed with the 255/275 set-up (adjusted size).
I've noticed that the ODB/ECU logged a P1766 code ('Engine Speed Plausibility'), but that code is only displayed with an ODB/ECU reader (no sign of the code on the onboard computer or iDrive).

Furthermore, no rubbing and a bit meatier filling up the wheel wells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alscks0414 View Post
Hey guys,
All vehicles regardless of makes, do develop their electronic measures of cars based on their manufactured spec.
LSD, suspension, engine throttle, and other ECU controlled features will be basically working as "what manufacturer intended" when you are keeping all things as state as it came.
Tire sizes will be one of the component as well.
However, remember that a lot of different model vehicles do offer different wheel sizes but they will relatively change their tire sidewall profile so that rolling diameter of vehicle will not differ much. They set about 1% (or less) of difference of rolling diameter will not alter the driving characteristic of one vehicle and will not give much stress on ECU controls and other physical components. (Same thing goes for AWD, xDrive. If you wish to go with staggered wheels + tires setup front and rear, engineers recommend you to stay within 1% difference of rolling diameter front and back).
If you do go over this 1% boundary, you could potentially run into "different driving characteristic from what manufacturer initially intended".
All makes do spend tons of hours to develop their car and when it comes to sports cars that requires precisely measured values and input, they will spend more time for research to decide what they will do before any vehicle released for sale. But, of course, they are not perfect... resulting into recalls and extensive repairs, etc.
Going back to the topic, 245/35/19F + 265/35/19R and 255/35/19F + 275/35/19R does make their difference in rolling diameter about 1.07% front and 1.05% at the rear. And I would not consider this as "major difference" for ECU control measures and driving dynamics.

Cheers
M2 tire size changes impact (table by mToronto):
Awesome information, thank you!
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 07:17 PM   #65
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1547
Rep
3,416
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

This sounds like operator error. I can make my car do all kinds of things that I don't like but its rarely the cars fault.
Appreciate 1
termigni1049.50

      10-14-2019, 07:56 PM   #66
VisualEcho
Major
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
1370
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
This sounds like operator error. I can make my car do all kinds of things that I don't like but its rarely the cars fault.
Sorry, but respectfully, you've lost your mind. Wheel hop is not operator error.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST