[CrashFL]

OG Shark: Dude, we've gotta talk. Those are supposed to be blue.

Me: Blue calipers are for people who don't track.

OG Shark: No, dark blue calipers are for people who track. Yours are black.
————————
I think I really over-cooked them. Was running RSL29 pads, 3.5 days old, on stock rotors. Castrol SRF fluid. Maybe my braking technique really sucks. Pads had 35-40% left going into Saturday, failed Sunday second session going into turn 19 a little over 90 mph.

Lesson learned on misjudging pad life. Going to AP BBK, and will work on technique.

Other thoughts?

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

@OG Shark: Dude, we've gotta talk. Those are supposed to be blue.

Me: Blue calipers are for people who don't track.

OG Shark: No, dark blue calipers are for people who track. Yours are black.

I think I really over-cooked them. Was running RSL29 pads, 3.5 days old, on stock rotors. Castrol SRF fluid. Maybe my braking technique really sucks. Pads had 35-40% left going into Saturday, failed Sunday second session going into turn 19 a little over 90 mph.

Lesson learned on misjudging pad life. Going to AP BBK, and will work on technique.

Other thoughts?

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

OG Shark: Dude, we've gotta talk. Those are supposed to be blue.

Me: Blue calipers are for people who don't track.

OG Shark: No, dark blue calipers are for people who track. Yours are black.
————————
I think I really over-cooked them. Was running RSL29 pads, 3.5 days old, on stock rotors. Castrol SRF fluid. Maybe my braking technique really sucks. Pads had 35-40% left going into Saturday, failed Sunday second session going into turn 19 a little over 90 mph.

Lesson learned on misjudging pad life. Going to AP BBK, and will work on technique.

Other thoughts?

Let your brakes cool down between sessions. I had this exact same thing happen last fall. 3 day event running in "Solo" group, which mean't a crapload of track time. I wasn't letting my brakes properly cool between sessions and ended up understanding what "brake fade" means at 140MPH coming into turn 1. Bit of a pucker moment.

Anyways, nice job on the brakes, welcome to the club

[M1500Z]

First off... yikes! Your phew at the end says it.

Everything came out ok, yeah? T19 is a scary place to go off like that, but it looked like you went into the trap relatively straight. What was going on Sunday?

COTA seems to be ok on brakes and T19 seems like an odd place for them to fail, but I guess it could happen anywhere. I'd expect them to be hottest somewhere between T12 and T15. I think you may be correct in your assumption of misjudging pad life for a weekend. Essex has a good writeup on pad life on their site (See: Predicting pad wear rates and Inspecting pads for wear).

If it's in the budget, AP is surely the way to go. If you want to get crafty and experiment, I've seen some interesting brake cooling options coming around lately.

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

First off... yikes! Your phew at the end says it.

Everything came out ok, yeah? T19 is a scary place to go off like that, but it looked like you went into the trap relatively straight. What was going on Sunday?

COTA seems to be ok on brakes and T19 seems like an odd place for them to fail, but I guess it could happen anywhere. I'd expect them to be hottest somewhere between T12 and T15. I think you may be correct in your assumption of misjudging pad life for a weekend. Essex has a good writeup on pad life on their site (See: Predicting pad wear rates and Inspecting pads for wear).

If it's in the budget, AP is surely the way to go. If you want to get crafty and experiment, I've seen some interesting brake cooling options coming around lately.

This was at Chin track days. I usually get some brake fade around t15, but they've recovered by 19. First thought: no brakes. Second thought: has the wall always been so close?

Thanks for the links!

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

Little tip on your gopro video (assuming it's a gopro). Press and hold on the gopro screen somewhere outside your windshield. It will set the exposure point to outside the car so you get a nice clear video without it over exposing from the sunlight.

[OG Shark]

Oh CrashFL - nice humble brag about being fast enough to kill the oems

The pads actually weren't awful - think they just went below the thickness threshold to be able to dissipate enough heat at that time in relation to what he was running. And he has been beating on these poor things mercilessly. I've seen the funky off-blue (the rears on his car are there) but black is taking it next level!

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Oh CrashFL - nice humble brag about being fast enough to kill the oems

The pads actually weren't awful - think they just went below the thickness threshold to be able to dissipate enough heat at that time in relation to what he was running. And he has been beating on these poor things mercilessly. I've seen the funky off-blue (the rears on his car are there) but black is taking it next level!

Totally agree it wasn't my ferocious speed or anything subpar about the pads. I just let them get too thin. I've been happy with RSL29s, other than their short life.

Hoping the AP kit will give:
- same stopping power
- a little better feel
- more endurance before fading
- better pad life

Will also be looking into ducts.

[243Racing]

Mine are a beautiful shade of hunter green.

My man, you win the prize.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

Totally agree it wasn't my ferocious speed or anything subpar about the pads. I just let them get too thin. I've been happy with RSL29s, other than their short life.

Hoping the AP kit will give:
- same stopping power
- a little better feel
- more endurance before fading
- better pad life

Will also be looking into ducts.

With the times you are still running out there while pulling that anchor heatsinking all down the long straights you are definitely pushing those things hard. I think you got all the track mileage one should get out of them

The Essex/AP kit should definitely please in all those areas - plus the reduction in unsprung weight.

I would not recommend ducts with them though. Try them first - think you will find they are perfectly capable of handling the temps without fading for your use. Ducting might actually be a negative - cool them off below their optimum operating range. I run them on my M2 with no ducting. Also run a very similar set on my race M3 with no ducting at a much quicker pace & do not have a need for ducting (and that thing is still a bit of a pig too).

Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing

Mine are a beautiful shade of hunter green.

My man, you win the prize.

He definitely did win the prize! Thankfully victory lane was in the gravel trap and not the wall though!

[5.M0NSTER]

Nice save! Good work scrubbing speed sideways.

I came close once. I had about 25% pads left on a set of Carbotech R10, and decided to run them for a day. All was fine on track, but after they cooled the friction material fell off on the way home. Backing plates were bent. Had to do a roadside pad swap to OE pads. Better that than losing them on track.

Learned my lesson. Swap the pads when they get to 35%. Adhesive layer is weaker than friction layer.

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Nice save! Good work scrubbing speed sideways.

I came close once. I had about 25% pads left on a set of Carbotech R10, and decided to run them for a day. All was fine on track, but after they cooled the friction material fell off on the way home. Backing plates were bent. Had to do a roadside pad swap to OE pads. Better that than losing them on track.

Learned my lesson. Swap the pads when they get to 35%. Adhesive layer is weaker than friction layer.

My first HPDE was in 2018 with BMWCCA National Capital Chapter. Did several DEs with them, and they do no-brake exercises, as well as skid pad time. That training really paid off when there wasn't much time to think. As you said, I scrubbed as much speed as I could. Then I pulled the ebrake and went into the gravel more or less straight backward. Glad I was on COTA with its generous safety margins. And the gravel was remarkably effective at stopping the car.

I didn't know that about the adhesive layer, but I'm learning

And HUGE thanks to all the instructors at NCC & Tarheel chapters!!!

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

My first HPDE was in 2018 with BMWCCA National Capital Chapter. Did several DEs with them, and they do no-brake exercises, as well as skid pad time. That training really paid off when there wasn't much time to think. As you said, I scrubbed as much speed as I could. Then I pulled the ebrake and went into the gravel more or less straight backward. Glad I was on COTA with its generous safety margins. And the gravel was remarkably effective at stopping the car.

I didn't know that about the adhesive layer, but I'm learning

And HUGE thanks to all the instructors at NCC & Tarheel chapters!!!

Yes, gravel is your friend, and the trick to using it is to go into it with momentum in the direction of travel. I've been doing track days since 2013, and had to use a sand trap once. Not because of a brake failure, but because of an ID10T user error

I was tired and forgot to brake for the Keyhole at Mid-Ohio. Went through the chicane at over 120, and just didn't brake for the following 180 degree turn. Dumb! Trap got me slowed down enough to re-enter the track, and after that I blacked flagged myself.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

This was at Chin track days. I usually get some brake fade around t15, but they've recovered by 19. First thought: no brakes. Second thought: has the wall always been so close?

Thanks for the links!

You're welcome 👏🏻. How is driving with Chin—I'd like to drive COTA with them or PCA (no idea how to find out about PCA) and see how they compare to Edge Addicts.

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

You're welcome 👏🏻. How is driving with Chin—I'd like to drive COTA with them or PCA (no idea how to find out about PCA) and see how they compare to Edge Addicts.

I've got some buddies who were down at Cota with Chin and they all raved about it.

My buddy blew the water pump in his Corvette ZR1

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

You're welcome 👏🏻. How is driving with Chin—I'd like to drive COTA with them or PCA (no idea how to find out about PCA) and see how they compare to Edge Addicts.

I really like the Chin format. They do a warmup session in the morning-- short session under yellow flag. And at the end of the day, they do a 60 min open track session they call Happy Hour. It's fun, and on Sunday Happy Hour you pretty much have the track to yourself. Highly recommend Chin, and I like Edge as well. Good folks.

PCA does Schnellfest at COTA. I thought it was twice a year but it might be 3x. https://austinschnellfest.clubregist....net/index.cfm

[H20neun]

in your dash I can see the tire warning light on, looks like you lowered your tire pressure before your session and did not reset the tire pressure in your board computer which can be an issue since the car does not let you turn traction control off with that tire pressure warning light on!

traction control can lead to overheating brakes as well since the brakes try to balance the car by brakeing and you don't even realize that

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by H20neun

in your dash I can see the tire warning light on, looks like you lowered your tire pressure before your session and did not reset the tire pressure in your board computer which can be an issue since the car does not let you turn traction control off with that tire pressure warning light on!

traction control can lead to overheating brakes as well since the brakes try to balance the car by brakeing and you don't even realize that

I run with all the systems off. The light is in because I pulled the TPMS sensors out of my track wheels a few months ago— kept going into limp mode before. Sometimes I could get around that on track by hitting reset, but other times I'd have to pit in to do it.

None of the DSC modes work well for me on track. They fight rotating the car, and don't like putting power down out of corners with steering angle or yaw. And you're right about the brakes— it'll cook them. The car is really well balanced; it's more fun + smoother without DSC.

[H20neun]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

I run with all the systems off. The light is in because I pulled the TPMS sensors out of my track wheels a few months ago— kept going into limp mode before. Sometimes I could get around that on track by hitting reset, but other times I'd have to pit in to do it.

None of the DSC modes work well for me on track. They fight rotating the car, and don't like putting power down out of corners with steering angle or yaw. And you're right about the brakes— it'll cook them. The car is really well balanced; it's more fun + smoother without DSC.

okay, I was under the believe that if your car does not recognize tmps sensors it won't let you switch off traction

did you do something to the deactivate the tmps sensors?

[CrashFL]

Originally Posted by H20neun

okay, I was under the believe that if your car does not recognize tmps sensors it won't let you switch off traction

did you do something to the deactivate the tmps sensors?

Nothing at all. I'd read on here that it'd work, and it did. You'll get the light on your dash, and a warning when you start the car, but that's it. Waaaaay better than trying to work around the TPMS.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by CrashFL

I really like the Chin format. They do a warmup session in the morning-- short session under yellow flag. And at the end of the day, they do a 60 min open track session they call Happy Hour. It's fun, and on Sunday Happy Hour you pretty much have the track to yourself. Highly recommend Chin, and I like Edge as well. Good folks.

PCA does Schnellfest at COTA. I thought it was twice a year but it might be 3x. https://austinschnellfest.clubregist....net/index.cfm

Appreciate the link 👍🏻. Chin really seems like they’ve got it down and I’d like to drive with them—need to keep an eye on their calendar so I can get signed up. I shouldn’t have sat on my hands for running ECR.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Appreciate the link 👍🏻. Chin really seems like they’ve got it down and I’d like to drive with them—need to keep an eye on their calendar so I can get signed up. I shouldn’t have sat on my hands for running ECR.

Chin also seems to have a better on track flow at COTA. Not quite as many trains, better point by manners, etc. And generally just had a better pace. Still a lot of cars on the track at one time - but you can usually get some uninterrupted laps in.