[Track/S]

If you don't know the recipe of the oil then it automatically becomes bad oil.... how curious.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

If you don't know the recipe of the oil then it automatically becomes bad oil.... how curious.

That is what approvals are for.
As far as I am concerned, you can use olive oil.
I am just saying paper tolerates everything. You can put whatever label on bottle you want. UBER AMG, M3, GT-R, LFA, but that doesn't mean oil is good.
Synthetic oils from 70's had huge amount of PAO and Esters, but they would obliterate gaskets. It took some time to realize that it is combination of base stocks, polymers and additives that counts. Manufacturers came up with approvals so people don't guess or fall for dishonest marketing.
Of course, there are better and worse approved oils, but point is they are approved for a minimum and that minimum just happens to be actually very stringent.

Also, Mobil1, Shell, Castrol, Total etc. are in this business forever. They have huge know-how, and that counts.

[Xspeedracer]

This is what I'm seeing on WORLDPAC for oil

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

At 5000km interval for street use you can probably use olive oil and be ok Maybe not for track.

I remembered this message today

Bmw x5 with n54 engine after 14.000km
Bmw 320i n20 engine stock after 10.000km
Audi a4 b9 2.0tsi stage3 after 7.000km

I changed the oil in these 3 cars, the oil came out very black in the x5 and the audi a4 I can say that it is identical to a diesel engine.... the 320i came out cleaner, I never looked at the color of the oil but today I was attentive , in my car the oil never came out so black, even after 8,000km, the conclusion is that even in street use and stock engine I would not exceed 10,000km, modified cars with mixed street/track use would not exceed 5000km, only track use, each trackday.


Stay away from olive oil even for street use

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

I remembered this message today

Bmw x5 with n54 engine after 14.000km
Bmw 320i n20 engine stock after 10.000km
Audi a4 b9 2.0tsi stage3 after 7.000km

I changed the oil in these 3 cars, the oil came out very black in the x5 and the audi a4 I can say that it is identical to a diesel engine.... the 320i came out cleaner, I never looked at the color of the oil but today I was attentive , in my car the oil never came out so black, even after 8,000km, the conclusion is that even in street use and stock engine I would not exceed 10,000km, modified cars with mixed street/track use would not exceed 5000km, only track use, each trackday.


Stay away from olive oil even for street use

You realize that the oil color means absolutely nothing though, right? In fact, darker oil means it's holding more contaminants in suspension.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

You realize that the oil color means absolutely nothing though, right? In fact, darker oil means it's holding more contaminants in suspension.

+1

The only way to determine if an oil can have a longer OCI or if the OCI should be shortened is via a UOA. Visual inspections for the most part are useless - with the exception of metallic fragements in the oil, the oil drains with an extremely odd color and or consistency (milky color indicating coolant contaimination, or the oil is completely gunked up) or an extremely burnt smell.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

You realize that the oil color means absolutely nothing though, right? In fact, darker oil means it's holding more contaminants in suspension.

Yes, more contaminants means more degradation.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

Yes, more contaminants means more degradation.

Yes that is true, but it is hard to judge and be 100% oil is bad based on the color. You'd need to get a UOA to be completely sure, you'd need to see if there are any additives left via TBN, you'd want to see if it has oxidized too far via TAN, and silicon levels and metal levels will tell you how much particulate is in the oil. So it really is hard to tell if an oil is good via color alone.

Generally speaking I don't like letting oils go past 7500 km before changing it, because oil changes are cheaper than engines so it is a cheap precautionary measure. So yes sooner is better than later, but if you don't want to waste your money doing super early oil changes, or do alot of driving and don't have the time to constantly do oil changes, a UOA can tell you if you can extend your OCI a bit further to optimize every oil change.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

Yes, more contaminants means more degradation.

Yeah but what if a certain oil just captures them better instead of leaving them on surfaces? You could design an oil that would come out amber color and not suspend any of the contaminants, but it would be a bad oil.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yes that is true, but it is hard to judge and be 100% oil is bad based on the color. You'd need to get a UOA to be completely sure, you'd need to see if there are any additives left via TBN, you'd want to see if it has oxidized too far via TAN, and silicon levels and metal levels will tell you how much particulate is in the oil. So it really is hard to tell if an oil is good via color alone.

Generally speaking I don't like letting oils go past 7500 km before changing it, because oil changes are cheaper than engines so it is a cheap precautionary measure. So yes sooner is better than later, but if you don't want to waste your money doing super early oil changes, or do alot of driving and don't have the time to constantly do oil changes, a UOA can tell you if you can extend your OCI a bit further to optimize every oil change.

I prefer to see a color like that of the 320i than one like that of x5 or a4, it is clear that without analyzing it we will not be able to know 100% the content of the oil, but I prefer to see it always clean.


It is not worth saving a few bottles of oil because later the breakdowns is much more expensive.

Originally Posted by chris719

Yeah but what if a certain oil just captures them better instead of leaving them on surfaces? You could design an oil that would come out amber color and not suspend any of the contaminants, but it would be a bad oil.

Yes, here's an example, I don't know if it's olive, I haven't tried it:







A lot of crap must have the engine for the oil to be black with 7000km.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

I prefer to see a color like that of the 320i than one like that of x5 or a4, it is clear that without analyzing it we will not be able to know 100% the content of the oil, but I prefer to see it always clean.


It is not worth saving a few bottles of oil because later the breakdowns is much more expensive.




Yes, here's an example, I don't know if it's olive, I haven't tried it:







A lot of crap must have the engine for the oil to be black with 7000km.

I agree, I also like to see my oil drain very light. But for a daily driver that might be really frequent oil changes which may amount to extremely high maintenance costs year round, that not every one is willing to have. It's also inconvenient to always have to being your car onto a shop that frequently or have to diy it that frequently. So that's why people will do UOA's to better optimize their OCI, this is much more accurate than judging by color. Also even if an oil is darker, it doesn't necessarily mean protection is all of a sudden gone, if there are still additives and it hasn't oxidized too far it should be ok.

[-Eidos]

Any results or feedback for Pakelo oil here?

https://pakelo.com/en/products/car/k...cing-sae-0w-40

[edycol]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Any results or feedback for Pakelo oil here?

https://pakelo.com/en/products/car/krypton-racing-sae-0w-40

I don't want to send my info to get tds/msds, but based on packaging, it is Ester based oil.
If you are not spending considerable amount of time on track, stay with street oils, and this is not street oil.

[edycol]

Judging oil by color os absolutely ridiculous.
Several possible scenarios:
1. Light color after 5k could mean that additives in that oil are not doing its job.
2. Dark oil after 5k: oil is doing its job. Additives are cleaning and suspending contaminants All good.
3. Number 2: BUT, dark oil might also mean excessive oxidation. Oxidation is not problem per se , especially if oil have esters and have already high oxidation from get go. Also, oxidation is not a problem if base number is still high. It is important that acidic number doesn't overshoot dramatically base number. That is absolutely impossible to determine from looking at the oil color.

So UOA is only appropriate way to determine state of oil.

[chris719]

Is Ravenol 0W-40 the only 0W-40 that didn’t lose LL-01? Looks like a good oil if overpriced here.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chris719

Is Ravenol 0W-40 the only 0W-40 that didn’t lose LL-01? Looks like a good oil if overpriced here.

Twice price of mobil1, it must have platinum particles, although that extra cost must be in the bottles and their labels.

Motul xmax 0w40

[edycol]

Originally Posted by chris719

Is Ravenol 0W-40 the only 0W-40 that didn't lose LL-01? Looks like a good oil if overpriced here.

No 0W30 or 0W40 is approved anymore for LL01 and LL04.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by edycol

No 0W30 or 0W40 is approved anymore for LL01 and LL04.

That's what I thought originally. You're right, I read more carefully and it's recommended but not approved like the 5W40.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by chris719

That's what I thought originally. You're right, I read more carefully and it's recommended but not approved like the 5W40.

Yes.
There is really no adverse effect in N5X engines to run 0W30/40 A3 oils. BMW increased dramatically already tough oxidation requirements in 2018.
I would though still use approved LL01 or LL04 in N20/26 engines as all BMW approvals now must pass N20 timing chain test.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Switching to Full E85, what oil should I run? Interval 3,000 Miles

[edycol]

Originally Posted by SpecialEdition_F87

Switching to Full E85, what oil should I run? Interval 3,000 Miles

Run 5W40 like Motul X-Cess GEN2 and do UOA after 3k run. Then see how KV100 held.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by edycol

Run 5W40 like Motul X-Cess GEN2 and do UOA after 3k run. Then see how KV100 held.

Saw this too late, I went ahead and purchased 5W-40 Quaker state Euro Spec. I seen it had Porsche A40 certification Mercedes Benz 229.3 and 229.5 Certifications along with BMW LL01. It also exceeds requirements for A3/B3 and A3/B4 So I just put that in. Thoughts?

Also when i changed my oil it may have been the light, But it seems to have a slight red tint to it. Normal lol? It was 90% dark color oil and like a 10% tint of red, could barely tell unless you looked hard.
4,500 mile oil change, it was a bmw oil

Anyone experience a slight red tint when draining? Maybe it was the suns color rays cus in the oil drain pan i had it in it just looked a regular dark like how it should. no red tint so i think it was the suns color rays

EDIT: Heard it was normal and its just the additives reacting. Just looked like regular oil when in the drain pan though. So it was probably the sun as people in forums have reported the same thing