[AmuroRay]

Reviewing your logs now - Load control looks good, boost control looks good timing on the first run - good, but second run is kinda rough. Outside of the higher IATs, it looks fine to me. How many miles on the plugs and coils?

Also, I don't know why, but it doesn't show me your absolute timing values, just deviation, same with WGDC.

[Dasnub]

Thanks for taking a look. I may not have them active.

Original plugs and coils, 32k. Have been looking into replacing soon- shop wants to go one step colder due to the tune, though I’ve heard OEM is fine on the M2 as they’re already colder than other N55s.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

If you are using a larger intercooler or one with a better core density it's normal for the IAT to be better. But on the other hand, it's going to weigh more, has more of a turbo lag, and takes more time to recover.

Not saying one is better than the other, but for a daily driver, a 14-degree increase is decent and won't make any difference. Still a big improvement over stock

I would think if you're already pulling timing after 1 or 2 pulls that's not great even for just the street.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by akkando

I would think if you're already pulling timing after 1 or 2 pulls that's not great even for just the street.

14 degree increases aren’t going to pull timing unless your starting IATs are already in triple digits.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by akkando

I would think if you're already pulling timing after 1 or 2 pulls that's not great even for just the street.

You’re correct on this. This IC is not doing a good job on absolute IAT control - it's about on the same level as the intercooler on on my car. Like me, he would have to manage his temps and likely would never be able to do a reasonable multiple gear pull or consecutive pull on it.

But for his uses and weather, that may be ok. For my uses (even on the street) and my region, I can't get away with it.

74 degrees ambient

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/log-16...g=0&data=15-24

https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/3rd-4t...-30&zoom=49-99

Also cool note - according to the torque output on the log, the car is making 440hp.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You’re correct on this. This IC is pretty lousy, on the same level as the intercooler on on my car. Like me, he has to basically manage his pulls and would never be able to do a reasonable multiple gear pull or consecutive pull on it.

Zero proof it cools down quicker or provides better throttle response than your IC. I’m not impressed, but I didn’t want to be the first to say it.

Once you get a new IC (not sure why it's taking you so long), I'll be very interested to see your datalogs of a 3rd gear run only with a fully warmed motor, radiator, CP, and IC on a 70-90 degree day. No glory runs where everything is cooled off and you go out and immediately do a highway pull. I bet you'll see a ~15 degree climb in IAT over that run.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You’re correct on this. This IC is pretty lousy, on the same level as the intercooler on on my car. Like me, he has to basically manage his pulls and would never be able to do a reasonable multiple gear pull or consecutive pull on it.

Zero proof it cools down quicker or provides better throttle response than your IC. I’m not impressed, but I didn’t want to be the first to say it.

If I was dissatisfied with it I’d say so- I have no allegiance to the product just because it’s what I bought. I have no problem with you saying it doesn’t fit your needs- hell, it might not fit 75% of forum users needs. But here’s the thing: I don’t do multiple gear pulls unless it’s 2-3. I have no desire to be going full throttle up to 130mph on a public road, so this simply isn’t a factor for me. As far as back to back pulls go, the IC is back to starting temp well within 60 seconds. Again, there are hardly any scenarios where I need to run my car through even a single gear with that kind of frequency. Honestly, I need the car to be able to do one, single gear pull every once in awhile on a stage 1 map in a cool climate (Michigan.) It’s the most basic of needs so its the most basic of intercoolers.

As always, you get what you pay for. But it also makes no sense to pay for what you do not need. This is not the worlds best intercooler, nor is it priced as such. But it does exactly what I need it to without it costing much. My cars see 35k miles a year and get replaced in 2-3 years. It just doesn’t make sense to invest thousands of dollars of parts into them.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Once you get a new IC (not sure why it's taking you so long), I'll be very interested to see your datalogs of a 3rd gear run only with a fully warmed motor, radiator, CP, and IC on a 70-90 degree day. No glory runs where everything is cooled off and you go out and immediately do a highway pull. I bet you'll see a ~15 degree climb in IAT over that run.

Not that it's anyone's business, but I just spent $2,000 on the car a month ago, and now I want to focus more on furnishing my new house I bought. Also consider there aren't any events here in Florida during the hot summer months, so there is no rush.

But here is a VERY recent review of the VRSF race:

Thread here

Originally Posted by AsianBill

@AmuroRay sure I can do that. I can't comment on fit since I had a buddy throw it in at a shop with the BOV/inlet/TIC pipe, but he did say it fit without any cutting. It looks good and snug as well.

As for performance it's great. Car feels healthier, and IAT is staying closer to ambient than with the BMS intercooler. I'll post a log that was at 88 degrees ambient temp and during a pull I was at about 102-103 IAT so 15 degrees over ambient. (He's referring to the BMS 5" intercooler he had previously - it saw IAT increases over 30 degrees on pulls)

Log here: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60a6...0b431401a096e8

You can see ambient temps drop when I start the pull. Also sorry for a trash log I shifted to 5th just out of habit.

This is also on the new v1.1 BM3 multimap tune set to 91 octane. So while I can't comment on just the intercooler, everything that was put on has made the car feel so much better, and this intercooler doesn't have me worried about heat soak in summer temps. This also future proofs the car so if/when I go for a larger turbo I'm ready to drop it in.

Edit: there is overboosting this tune seems to be extremely aggressive

Note in that log it starts at 113F and drops down to 100F (88F ambient)
Also

Originally Posted by AsianBill

No problem my man. No real difference in turbo lag from before, but that could also be the inlet at work. As for timing I'm putting in 93 for a 91 map. Going to try out the e85 map soon tho so we shall see how it does. I don't think it's coils or plugs but maybe I'll give em a change soon anyway

In this log:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60b2...0b432b33dceed2 found in this thread

He starts at 76F and drops down to 68F during the run (52F ambient) Also note none of these runs are to redline, so it's possible the temps could increase, but notices they stay stable even after he lets off.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

If I was dissatisfied with it I’d say so- I have no allegiance to the product just because it’s what I bought. I have no problem with you saying it doesn’t fit your needs- hell, it might not fit 75% of forum users needs. But here’s the thing: I don’t do multiple gear pulls unless it’s 2-3. I have no desire to be going full throttle up to 130mph on a public road, so this simply isn’t a factor for me. As far as back to back pulls go, the IC is back to starting temp well within 60 seconds. Again, there are hardly any scenarios where I need to run my car through even a single gear with that kind of frequency.

As always, you get what you pay for. But it also makes no sense to pay for what you do not need. This is not the worlds best intercooler, nor is it priced as such. But it does exactly what I need it to without it costing much. My cars see 35k miles a year and get replaced in 2-3 years. It just doesn’t make sense to invest thousands of dollars of parts into them.

If you're happy with it, who am I to tell you otherwise?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You’re correct on this. This IC is pretty lousy, on the same level as the intercooler on on my car. Like me, he has to basically manage his pulls and would never be able to do a reasonable multiple gear pull or consecutive pull on it.

Zero proof it cools down quicker or provides better throttle response than your IC. I’m not impressed, but I didn’t want to be the first to say it.

While mine is not great this is more reasonable for the "street" to me.

69 degrees, stage 1 ACN tune so not super aggressive but does create more heat than stock. I had been driving for a while. I spent 10-15 minutes fooling around and never got IATs that would give me issues at least on a 70 degree day. I figure I should be okay up to 85-90 ambient which is rare here. On the track would be another thing but I can't be 100% throttle on the street all the time because of safety and police and also curvy roads. Mashing it at every opportunity I have to do so doesn't result in high enough temps to cause me issues. I don't usually make it very far into 4th gear as I don't want a triple digit ticket.

These are just to almost the top of 3rd before and after. In these situations my IATs tend to not change until after I'm off throttle.








Notice on this one it was a second pull shortly after the previous pull and IAT did creep up between pulls but didn't change during the 3rd gear pull.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Not that it's anyone's business, but I just spent $2,000 on the car a month ago, and now I want to focus more on furnishing my new house I bought. Also consider there aren't any events here in Florida during the hot summer months, so there is no rush.

But here is a VERY recent review of the VRSF race:

Thread here


Note in that log it starts at 113F and drops down to 100F (88F ambient)
Also



In this log:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=60b2...0b432b33dceed2 found in this thread

He starts at 76F and drops down to 68F during the run (52F ambient) Also note none of these runs are to redline, so it's possible the temps could increase, but notices they stay stable even after he lets off.

Nothing against the VRSF- these aren’t great logs for showing much of anything. They only run up to 5500 rpm- skipping the most heat generating portion of the pull- and they have very little data after the run either. Larger, denser intercoolers tend to start rising in temperature after a pull once airflow is reduced. I’d be curious to see what IATs were a minute later. If you hold IATs at WOT only to gain 15 degrees afterwards, you’re worse off for street driving where you have time in between full throttle. For racing, definitely a better option.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Nothing against the VRSF- these aren’t great logs for showing much of anything. They only run up to 5500 rpm- skipping the most heat generating portion of the pull- and they have very little data after the run either. Larger, denser intercoolers tend to start rising in temperature after a pull once airflow is reduced. I’d be curious to see what IATs were a minute later. If you hold IATs at WOT only to gain 15 degrees afterwards, you’re worse off for street driving where you have time in between full throttle. For racing, definitely a better option.

Absolute fair criticism of the logs, but I'm not entirely sure the conclusion is accurate.

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

Performance: Perfect. Zero increased turbo lag. Interestingly, even before flashing to Stage 2, my butt dyno suggested more throttle response and top end. But the logs told a much more quantitative and reassuring story. For sake of simplicity, I'll distill the logs down to just the IATs in pulls from 2k in 3rd through redline in 4th...

Ambient Temp - Hardware - Tune - IAT 2k in 3rd - IAT top of 3rd - IAT top of 4th - (IAT delta from bottom of 3rd to top of 4th)
72F - Stock - OEM - 90F - 112F - 117F (+27F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed4...729b6c7129048e

72F - Stock - Stage 1 - 86F - 129F - 140F (+54F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed3...90c66237c1d0f8

82F - VRSF 6.5" - OEM - 104F - 95F - 100F (-4F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eda...729b0f7178b9f1

82F - VRSF 6.5" - Stage 1 - 101F - 97F - 109F (+8F)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eda...90c634ff221de4

79F - VRSF 6.5" - Stage 2 - 92F - 92F (0F) ...*there was too much traffic to get into fourth gear so a third gear pull was the best I could do*
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4f...90c61f061ddbc8

I'm no expert at reading datalogs, but to me, those results are extremely impressive. Generally-speaking, they tell me two things:
1) The OEM intercooler is actually underpowered for even an OEM tune, let alone Stage 1.
2) The VRSF 6.5" is just about perfect for a Stage 1 or Stage 2 application. In a third gear pull, the IATs actually drop in the OEM and Stage 1 tunes and remain rock steady in Stage 2.

This is the shorter "Competition" model (8" tall vs 11" tall for the "Race") The only difference between the two is frontal area, and both share the same 20 fins per inch - it's what I originally bought, and then I sold it before installing.

You'll note on the Stage 1 application, he noted that the temps DECREASED during the 3rd gear pull, and slowly crept up during the end of the 4th gear pull.

[Boostleak235]

Did some pulls after my brother and I finished installing VRSF Charge pipe and VRSF comp HD 6.5" instercooler. Pulls were on BM3 Stage 1 93 oct. Houston, TX so LOL 90% humidity and 85F after sun went down.

1-4 gear pulls would start 95F, and end at 88F. We were dead laughing because those same pulls on stock intercooler would start 104F and end at 140F.

[XutvJet]

I did some logging with my Wagner EVO Comp I intercooler over the weekend as temps in Kansas City finally got up into the 85-90 degree range.

Stop and go traffic in 88 temp ambient air
On a completely heat soaked motor after driving 30 minutes, at a stop light, IATs would creep up to 110-120 degrees. Within seconds of leaving the light, IATs would drop to 105 degrees. A swift punch of the throttle in 2nd would drop IATs to 95 degrees almost instantaneously. When going a steady 35-45mph, IATs would hover right at 102 degrees.

6MT 3rd gear run from 55mph to 110mph in 88 temp ambient air
At the start of the run and no throttle, the IATs were around 100-102 degrees. Within 2 seconds of the start of the run, the IATs dropped to 93 degrees. Right at the end of the IATs, the IAT was at 97 degrees. While coasting in 6th, IATs almost immediately climbed to 102 degrees. A half stab of the throttle in 6th at 75mph nearly instantly dropped the IATs from 102 degrees to 93 degrees. It would do this every time.

[Rub1con76]

Finally i got my CSF intercooler and chargepipe installed tomorrow.
Can't wait if there is any difference or hp gains

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Rub1con76

Finally i got my CSF intercooler and chargepipe installed tomorrow.
Can't wait if there is any difference or hp gains

Pictures, please

[Rub1con76]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Pictures, please

Here you go

[bentom2]

I know none of us need convincing that the stock intercooler is insufficient for track use in warmer weather, but I liked the added visual of overlaying the IAT on a video session to see where it’s getting hottest, and that it never comes close to recovering to Ambient temp. It was around 88-90 degrees according to the car’s temp display.

I have a CSF intercooler and AA charge pipe on order. If it gets here in time, I’ll be back at the same track on July 8 and will do the same thing if the weather cooperates. Worst case, I’ll be at another track on the 10th and 11th that’s in a hotter part of the region that should give me similar conditions.

[Oktom2]

Originally Posted by bentom2

I know none of us need convincing that the stock intercooler is insufficient for track use in warmer weather, but I liked the added visual of overlaying the IAT on a video session to see where it’s getting hottest, and that it never comes close to recovering to Ambient temp. It was around 88-90 degrees according to the car’s temp display.

I have a CSF intercooler and AA charge pipe on order. If it gets here in time, I’ll be back at the same track on July 8 and will do the same thing if the weather cooperates. Worst case, I’ll be at another track on the 10th and 11th that’s in a hotter part of the region that should give me similar conditions.

Looks like a cool track!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Oktom2

Looks like a cool track!

It does, thank you for sharing

[vrooooom]

Finally got my CSF. I hope it’s straight forward install like the FTP charge pipe.

I had to loosen the hose clamps connecting the charge pipe segments so the lower part would engage with the IC.

1.5 hrs later….

Wow. Is it psychological or is the car more powerful with the new intercooler? I feel like the car charges much more. Myb it helps that it just rained so the weather is cooler. I don’t feel it added any lag but then again I’m no expert. I just feel when I step on the gas and a second later, the rear wheel is spinning (wet road). Sport+.

CSF, for Pete’s sake. Would it kill the company to include a bigger (or proper rectangular) washer so the IC isn’t looking like it’s going to fall off? The washer tilts to one side. Precariously sitting to one side and looks like it could slide out. I had to put a nut (rummaged thru my bin of random crap) in between the space so it doesn’t shift to one side. This IC have been shipping to customers at least 3+ yrs now, I guess they don’t intend to improve this aspect. Weird though that I received 4 sets of washers and screws. Would have been a nice touch if they spec’d it with torx screws instead of what looks like stainless wood screws but that would be asking too much considering the washer.

Sorry no nearby street (that's not congested) to do any logs.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Finally got my CSF. I hope it’s straight forward install like the FTP charge pipe.

I had to loosen the hose clamps connecting the charge pipe segments so the lower part would engage with the IC.

1.5 hrs later….

Wow. Is it psychological or is the car more powerful with the new intercooler? I feel like the car charges much more. Myb it helps that it just rained so the weather is cooler. I don’t feel it added any lag but then again I’m no expert. I just feel when I step on the gas and a second later, the rear wheel is spinning (wet road). Sport+.

CSF, for Pete’s sake. Would it kill the company to include a bigger (or proper rectangular) washer so the IC isn’t looking like it’s going to fall off? The washer tilts to one side. Precariously sitting to one side and looks like it could slide out. I had to put a nut (rummaged thru my bin of random crap) in between the space so it doesn’t shift to one side. This IC have been shipping to customers at least 3+ yrs now, I guess they don’t intend to improve this aspect. Weird though that I received 4 sets of washers and screws. Would have been a nice touch if they spec’d it with torx screws instead of what looks like stainless wood screws but that would be asking too much considering the washer.

Sorry no nearby street (that's not congested) to do any logs.

Thank you for the feedback, I'll make sure to forward it to CSF