[Shihab97_F87]

I'm planning on buying an Intercooler and various other mods for my M2 LCI. I'm currently in Vancouver and I was thinking about buying the Wagner Evo competition 2. However, I will be moving back to the Middle East in a couple of months and I'm taking my car with me. The car will be stage 2 tuned and have these parts:

Fabspeed sports cat
Dorch stage 1 HPFP
MST Turbo inlet
FTP Charge pipe and boost pipe
Turbosmart BOV Kompact EM Plumb Back VR11
AFE Pro dry s drop on filter
NGK 97506 1-step colder spark plugs

Do you think that the Wagner Evo competition 2 FMIC will be sufficient for hot summers in the Middle East, or would you recommend a bigger Intercooler? Temperatures can reach 122 degrees..

Thanks!

[AmuroRay]

Get a RACE intercooler: BMS, VRSF or the like.

The EVO2 will have higher cruising temps, higher temps overall, not dissipate heat as well, cost more and do nothing better. Avoid.

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Get a RACE intercooler: BMS, VRSF or the like.

The EVO2 will have higher cruising temps, higher temps overall, not dissipate heat as well, cost more and do nothing better. Avoid.

I'm mainly worried about turbo lag as it'll be a few months before I purchase PS2. I'm leaning more towards the CSF intercooler, do you think turbo lag will be a problem? Can it be reduced with a custom tune?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Shihab97_F87

I'm mainly worried about turbo lag as it'll be a few months before I purchase PS2. I'm leaning more towards the CSF intercooler, do you think turbo lag will be a problem? Can it be reduced with a custom tune?

The EVO2 is woefully undersized and not capable with the PS2. (Or in general IMO) but I can link a few threads if you need some proof. You’re not going to get turbolag with the intercoolers mentioned, but you will get lag with the PS2 because it’s just a bigger turbo.

If you want to me to be blunt, there are more reports of ‘lag’ with the CSF than there are with the RACE ICs. The CSF is a good intercooler, the Race cores are absolutely better and are recommended for people using upgraded turbos. Buy in confidence

Edit: do not use the NGK plugs, stick with stock.

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The EVO2 is woefully undersized and not capable with the PS2. (Or in general IMO) but I can link a few threads if you need some proof. You’re not going to get turbolag with the intercoolers mentioned, but you will get lag with the PS2 because it’s just a bigger turbo.

If you want to me to be blunt, there are more reports of ‘lag’ with the CSF than there are with the RACE ICs. The CSF is a good intercooler, the Race cores are absolutely better and are recommended for people using upgraded turbos. Buy in confidence

Edit: do not use the NGK plugs, stick with stock.

Noted. I think I'll go with the VRSF Competition 6.5". Do you know if this will fit without any cutting or removing parts? I read that some people needed to remove the front brace…

[mike@x-ph.com]

BMS or MAD race intercoolers.

i tested the MAD on the shop's car this weekend and im very happy with the result.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Any Race intercooler is good. Wasn't usually a fan of ARM but their F30 Race intercooler is a nice unit. (Same as the evolution racewerks)

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Any Race intercooler is good. Wasn't usually a fan of ARM but their F30 Race intercooler is a nice unit. (Same as the evolution racewerks)

It’s a solid core, I like it. It’s got more frontal area than the VRSF 5" and Competition, so it should perform a tad better, however:

It’s smaller (22lbs? Vs 27lbs) meaning less thermal capacity. It also doesn’t have a stepped rear portion, so in low speed (traffic) situations, the puller fan isn’t going to help keep IATs down. This won’t change anything in terms of absolute performance, but it’s something to know.

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

BMS or MAD race intercoolers.

i tested the MAD on the shop's car this weekend and im very happy with the result.

Did you notice any pressure drop with such a big Intercooler?

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It’s a solid core, I like it. It’s got more frontal area than the VRSF, so it should perform a tad better, however:

It’s smaller (22lbs? Vs 27lbs) meaning less thermal capacity. It also doesn’t have a stepped rear portion, so in low speed (traffic) situations, the puller fan isn’t going to help keep IATs down. This won’t change anything in terms of absolute performance, but it’s something to know.

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Edit: do not use the NGK plugs, stick with stock.

The gap is more critical than the heat range imo.

Originally Posted by Shihab97_F87

Noted. I think I'll go with the VRSF Competition 6.5". Do you know if this will fit without any cutting or removing parts? I read that some people needed to remove the front brace…

Won't fit, you'll have to pull the front brace as per others who tried to use the 6.5" version.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

The gap is more critical than the heat range imo.

Honestly, I've heard about more than a few of them being defective out of the box. They literally do nothing better and are a point of constant headaches. I have a set and they worked initially, but started causing issues in less than 5K miles.

Junk.

Originally Posted by F87source

Won't fit, you'll have to pull the front brace as per others who tried to use the 6.5" version.

This is partly true, but it's true for any taller IC as well. I believe Wattens installed the VRSF Comp on his car, and did not have to remove the brace, as the Competition unit is 8" tall vs the 11" for the Race intercooler. Keep in mind while it's a tad more work to install, the taller units are just a better unit overall.

I would still consider a Race intercooler and plan to swap out the brace with the M235I version.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Honestly, I've heard about more than a few of them being defective out of the box. They literally do nothing better and are a point of constant headaches. I have a set and they worked initially, but started causing issues in less than 5K miles.

Junk.




This is partly true, but it's true for any taller IC as well. I believe Wattens installed the VRSF Comp on his car, and did not have to remove the brace, as the Competition unit is 8" tall vs the 11" for the Race intercooler. Keep in mind while it's a tad more work to install, the taller units are just a better unit overall.

I would still consider a Race intercooler and plan to swap out the brace with the M235I version.

I never expected the NGK's to have quality issues, strange.



I wouldn't trade chassis stiffness to go with a race intercooler. I would rather go with D088 or CSF at that point and retain the brace.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

I never expected the NGK's to have quality issues, strange.



I wouldn't trade chassis stiffness to go with a race intercooler. I would rather go with D088 or CSF at that point and retain the brace.

A Miata has the chassis stiffness of a wet noodle and they will still (out momentum) themselves around more capable cars. From what I understand when I

So apparently it actually doesn't improve handling on it's own, but does raise the driver confidence level. But I get what you're saying.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

A Miata has the chassis stiffness of a wet noodle and they will still (out momentum) themselves around more capable cars. From what I understand when I

So apparently it actually doesn't improve handling on it's own, but does raise the driver confidence level. But I get what you're saying.

Not the new mx5's, they've improved chassis stiffness alot. But mx5's have weight and low center of gravity on their side. The m2 is nearly 1,200 pounds heavier, so that lower weight attributes alot to the great handling of the mx5.


On the m2 I wouldnt trade chassis stiffness to run a larger intercooler, I'd instead buy an intercooler that was designed for the car so nothing has to be removed.

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by F87source

I never expected the NGK's to have quality issues, strange.



I wouldn't trade chassis stiffness to go with a race intercooler. I would rather go with D088 or CSF at that point and retain the brace.

I'm tilting more towards CSF for this reason

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Shihab97_F87

I'm tilting more towards CSF for this reason

Well in regards to CSF their mounting hardware is kind of sub optimal imo, so I hope they have improved upon this.

[AmuroRay]

Your climate is extreme and you’re going to be running an upgraded turbo - you’ll need a race IC, don’t compromise.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Shihab97_F87

Did you notice any pressure drop with such a big Intercooler?

Unfortunately, I did not have enough time to test the intercooler as the car had unrelated problems with the engine, but I would not expect any pressure drop issues.

[AmuroRay]

OP I also forgot about WMI But that’s not something I personally have experience with.

[Shihab97_F87]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

OP I also forgot about WMI But that’s not something I personally have experience with.

I don't think I'll do this. I heard is corrosive and can harm the engine..?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Your climate is extreme and you’re going to be running an upgraded turbo - you’ll need a race IC, don’t compromise.

I agree, but I would get a fitting intercooler. I think CTS has a high fin density race intercooler that fits the m2 without having to make changes. Wagner's evo 3 is also very good as per ZM2 and a few others who reported good results (and these guys have heavily tuned m2's that are tracked), and comes with amazing hardware to properly support such a large intercooler.

Originally Posted by Shihab97_F87

I don't think I'll do this. I heard is corrosive and can harm the engine..?

Corrosion due to methanol isn't a concern imo (oil dilution is a larger factor), the concern is the safety systems of the meth kit and imo literally all but 2 meth kits on the market are insufficent in this regard, and of course how you vent the meth tank so you don't breathe the fumes in.


So if you are concerned with meth, I would run distilled water injection - that removes the concern of corrosion and oil dilution, however you still need good safety systems so you don't cause hydro lock or knocking.