[AlpsRider]

You guys....

The OG M2 is fantastic car so is the M2C.

There is one word that can not be disputed in the comparison, torque. In stock form the M2 puts out 343 ft lb of torque while the M2C puts out 406 ft lb of torque which is a 63 ft lb increase. That is a huge increase and about the same as the M3/M4. This may not matter to a lot of people, that's fine. The M2/M2C is a high performance sports car where performance matters. Price, styling, sound, depreciation etc are all things to be considered in a purchase. So people should go out and find the deal that works for them. The elephant in the room is the extra 63ft lb of torque that the S55 pumps out which is a big deal. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just stating a fact.

[Bimmer28312]

Exactly... I think some people just have a hard time justifying and facing facts. No buts on this one no matter how you try and spin it

[tranck]

It really is a good debate.
Regarding torque, I did a simple Dinan Stage 1 tune on my LCI 2018.

Boosted the HP to 383, the torque to 411 and...you can really feel this difference.

I'm not going to bang again on the M2C in this thread - it has been beaten to death but I can tell you honestly that for the exact same $, I would choose the OG over the M2C.

[SpartanGA]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

You guys....

The OG M2 is fantastic car so is the M2C.

There is one word that can not be disputed in the comparison, torque. In stock form the M2 puts out 343 ft lb of torque while the M2C puts out 406 ft lb of torque which is a 63 ft lb increase. That is a huge increase and about the same as the M3/M4. This may not matter to a lot of people, that's fine. The M2/M2C is a high performance sports car where performance matters. Price, styling, sound, depreciation etc are all things to be considered in a purchase. So people should go out and find the deal that works for them. The elephant in the room is the extra 63ft lb of torque that the S55 pumps out which is a big deal. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just stating a fact.

If that’s the most important feature to you. If it includes more weight and handle more like the M4. Then no thanks.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by SpartanGA

If that’s the most important feature to you. If it includes more weight and handle more like the M4. Then no thanks.

The M2C weighs 110 lbs more than the M2. They have been weighed in the real world, both were Manuals. If you want to add the DCT, that's an extra 55 lb to your M2.
BTW, I have never heard anyone say that the M2C handles like an M4. That is simply not true.

[620turbo]

Originally Posted by tranck

It really is a good debate.
Regarding torque, I did a simple Dinan Stage 1 tune on my LCI 2018.

Boosted the HP to 383, the torque to 411 and...you can really feel this difference.

I'm not going to bang again on the M2C in this thread - it has been beaten to death but I can tell you honestly that for the exact same $, I would choose the OG over the M2C.

Which is what I did despite being certain I was going to go and get an M2C.

See the M2C fanboys are still banging on about suspension changes, despite me pointing out to them several times already, the parts are the same as on the OG M2, CF strut brace excepted.

So who is it who has their head in the sand here?

Agreed the engine (S55) is more powerful and responsive, but unless you are tracking the car, it isn't gonna make that much difference on the road for most people and that awful noise. . . oh dear.

Anyway, all good banter eh.

[Bimmer28312]

Originally Posted by 620turbo

Which is what I did despite being certain I was going to go and get an M2C.

See the M2C fanboys are still banging on about suspension changes, despite me pointing out to them several times already, the parts are the same as on the OG M2, CF strut brace excepted.

So who is it who has their head in the sand here?

Agreed the engine (S55) is more powerful and responsive, but unless you are tracking the car, it isn't gonna make that much difference on the road for most people and that awful noise. . . oh dear.

Anyway, all good banter eh.

Lol can't let it go. It's a superior machine period and it handles better lol

[AlpsRider]

There is one thing that bothers me about the M2C, it's the seats. I mean they look great but all of that torque/G-force has left an indentation of my body shape in the leather. I just can't get it out

[620turbo]

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Lol can't let it go. It's a superior machine period and it handles better lol

Can you kindly list the changed suspension when you have a moment?

There must be something wrong with my parts system because it is showing the same part numbers for M2 and M2C.

[SpartanGA]

Originally Posted by 620turbo

Can you kindly list the changed suspension when you have a moment?

There must be something wrong with my parts system because it is showing the same part numbers for M2 and M2C.

Hahaha. Same suspension. More weight. Handles better. Ok ...

[SpartanGA]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

“At our test track in Michigan, though, the additional power did not produce much of a gain in straight-line acceleration. An M2 Competition with the optional DCT automatic transmission we tested couldn't improve on its predecessor's zero-to-60-mph time of 4.0 seconds flat and barely beat it in the quarter-mile, returning a 12.4-second pass at 116 mph, improvements of 0.1 second and 3 mph”

“BMW says the suspension calibration is unchanged from the previous non-Competition M2, and it still delivers a firm ride.”

[620turbo]

Originally Posted by SpartanGA

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

“At our test track in Michigan, though, the additional power did not produce much of a gain in straight-line acceleration. An M2 Competition with the optional DCT automatic transmission we tested couldn't improve on its predecessor's zero-to-60-mph time of 4.0 seconds flat and barely beat it in the quarter-mile, returning a 12.4-second pass at 116 mph, improvements of 0.1 second and 3 mph”

“BMW says the suspension calibration is unchanged from the previous non-Competition M2, and it still delivers a firm ride.”

Thanks, interesting.

I remember when the M2C was launched, there were BMW videos released and the press were told in briefings of the changes. BMW were saying there were suspension changes, it had been retuned, etc. It now turns out that BMW were lying. The M2C suspension is actually the setup which was designed, set up, tuned and tested for the OG M2 with the N55.

So we know M2C has a slightly compromised suspension set up but the major thing for me is the noise. To me, and I am not alone, it is bad, especially for a car of this ilk. It is common knowledge and well accepted that the S55 sounds crap compared to other cars and engines, including the OG M2 with the N55.

The M2C S55 implementation is even worse because of the ball sack particulate filter which not only looks terrible but manages to make what is a poor sounding engine in the first place, sound even worse.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=23&t=1776603

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by 620turbo

The M2C S55 implementation is even worse because of the ball sack particulate filter which not only looks terrible but manages to make what is a poor sounding engine in the first place, sound even worse.

Such is not on North American delivered M2C thankfully.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by SpartanGA

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

C&D data for M2C vs M2:

0-60mph 4.0 4.0
0-100mph 9.1 9.6
0-130mph 15.9 18.3
1/4 mile: 12.4@116 12.5@113

Pretty much lines up with the improvement in power/weight ratio. Forget 0-60mph trying to extract a difference given how grip limited the car is; similarly the 1/4 ET is affected most directly by the 60' time which they don't provide but will show how well each car was driven out of the hole. Heck, with DSC off, I continually have trouble with a 2nd gear roll-on, trying not to spin the tires from 40mph, but these PSS aren't the best for longitudinal grip.

The power/weight advantage shows itself by 0.5 sec faster time to 100mph and 1.4 second quicker time to 130mph and also in the 113 versus 116mph trap in the 1/4...about the best measure of power/weight ratio there is since trap speed is so robust with respect to varying 60' times out of the hole.

From all my experimentation with the M2C so far including spending 4 hours on a 1/2 mile circumference skid pad, I'm most impressed by the reprogramming of the EPS. It's by far the best EPS implementation from BMW to date (note: I've not driven the M3CS/M4CS yet on track).

All this back and forth is typical of online forums. It's all going to start again shortly when the M2CS makes its debut, so round two is on the way.

[Flange]

Originally Posted by 620turbo

Thanks, interesting.

I remember when the M2C was launched, there were BMW videos released and the press were told in briefings of the changes. BMW were saying there were suspension changes, it had been retuned, etc. It now turns out that BMW were lying. The M2C suspension is actually the setup which was designed, set up, tuned and tested for the OG M2 with the N55.

So we know M2C has a slightly compromised suspension set up but the major thing for me is the noise. To me, and I am not alone, it is bad, especially for a car of this ilk. It is common knowledge and well accepted that the S55 sounds crap compared to other cars and engines, including the OG M2 with the N55.

The M2C S55 implementation is even worse because of the ball sack particulate filter which not only looks terrible but manages to make what is a poor sounding engine in the first place, sound even worse.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=23&t=1776603

Christ, give over.
You’re making us Brits look even more stupid than everyone thinks we are....

[F87EVO]

Stop trying to prove which car is better , dont forget that the OG M2 was stopped because of emissions etc. It wasnt a bad car , actually Jeremy's Clarkson review states that is the best M car ever made , this alone is a big statement BUT this doesnt mean the Competition is worse or better .

Is just personal preference , for me the M2 is really one of the best M cars since e46 m3 , i cannot state it was better than e30 m3 cause i really never drive one , and cant have opinion on other models . The competition now , continues what the OG is , the best M car you can still buy . Thanks BMW continued the same chassis , the same F87 body , because actually what makes it better , is that is a balanced car . Now to the engine , as i stated above , they have to either stop the M2 or continue build it with another motor , nowadays bmw doesnt want to spend much on designing for each model an engine , but it was the only thing they could do to put the S55 unit . The OG was a bit of a hybrid , when you call it N55 seems like you downgrade the car - dont get me wrong it was an amazing engine , but the OG M2 got more than just an N55 . They have spent time to tune this engine and make sure that they will put it on the M2 . As they do on their first ever M cars like E30 M3 , which again it shared the M10 block , and the engine finally called "S14" , it doesnt mean that the code makes it an M engine or a BMW engine . You can check up , even the M1 had the M88 block which was not completely BMW M block , and yes that was their first ever M car . You can search other great M cars like e46 M3 e36 M3 , 1M coupe about their engines . For me the engine on the OG M2 , is great cause its an engine for only that specific M2 , it wasnt used on other car like nowadays i.e S58 (new M3/4 , X3/4M , probably the next M2 as well . You cant just design and put an engine on an SUV and on a sedan or coupe . You have to design at least 2 different engines on those 5 models . As for this thread , my thoughts is that the M2 and M2C are Some of the future classics , dont forget , in 20 years from now , will not remember the codes which as i stated the N55 on the OG is not really an N55 , you will remember the F87 like you remember the legendary E30 . You will not even remember LCI or Comp or CS , is the F87 what really will stay in the long term , because thats what really the M2 is on this model .

[Bimmer28312]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

There is one thing that brothers me about the M2C, it's the seats. I mean they look great but all of that torque/G-force has left an indentation of my body shape in the leather. I just can't get it out

Hahahahaha but but but I saved so much money so it's a better car

[natmad]

Let’s revisit some information on the M2C weight balance and handling differences with the same suspension part numbers...

“On the subject of weight balance, the M2C’s balance between the front and rear has shifted slightly to the front. The main reason is of course the engine, but this is not the complete story when it comes to the subject of handling. To explain the true story of what was changed, I sat down with the chief engineer of BMW M at Ascari to run down the list of mechanical changes to the setup of the car allowing us to analyze the sheer brilliance of its new handling characteristics.

First of all, the Germans added a series of parts to the car but didn’t touch the spring rates or the suspension struts. With regards to the suspension hardware nothing was changed. A new front strut brace (combinatino of a bulkheat strut & CFRP strut) from the M3/M4 allows for a much improved stiffness, a noticeable more precise turn-in and better balance at high speed. The front has a tendency of communicating its lower amount of understeer better to the driver allowing yourself to minimize it where you can. The rear bushings for the suspension mounting points keep the rear better in line with the direction of the front.”

“In order to ensure extremely precise wheel location, play-free ball joints are used to transmit transverse forces, similarly to the base M2. The longitudinal forces passing through the chassis are transmitted into the torque struts directly via special elastomer bearings, which simultaneously deliver the desired rolling comfort. A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2’s noticeable flaws. According to the chief engineer, the steering software was finetuned to allow for a more precise turn-in using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll.”

“Sheer brilliance of the M2 Competition is encompassed by another software change. The Germans tuned the MDM and oh good lord they have done a super job, it is the tasteful cherry on the chubby cake. Based on the M3/M4 CS MDM software, the engineers have developed a set up that allows you to lean on the traction of the rears and your steering lock in an immensely smooth, safe and non-intrusive way. The more open nature of the available playing room at the rear remembered me of the times I drove a E46 M3 (My M benchmark) aggressively. It is so lovely balanced and offers so much more sideslip that it becomes a challenging and playful game between you as a driver and the MDM who will win. In the end, it is an addictive game with the M2C in Sport Plus trying to lure you in with a rewarding present you cannot refuse, while you also know it will tell you “until here and no further” when you become too greedy.”

“The ability to lean on this open window within its suspension set up and not on its available powerband is what I want to see in a M car. I don’t need tons of horsepower, I need sheer brilliance through my hands on the wheel and my butt in the seat, and that is exactly what this car is able to do. The level in which it puts a M smile on your face and lets you scream of joy behind the wheel is an experience I do not often have any more behind the wheel of a car. Subsequently, it also lets you completely forget the worries about its chubbiness.“

But, I guess the M2C still doesn’t sound as good as the OG M2.

I’ll still take mine when it gets here.

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

You guys....

The OG M2 is fantastic car so is the M2C.

There is one word that can not be disputed in the comparison, torque. In stock form the M2 puts out 343 ft lb of torque while the M2C puts out 406 ft lb of torque which is a 63 ft lb increase. That is a huge increase and about the same as the M3/M4. This may not matter to a lot of people, that's fine. The M2/M2C is a high performance sports car where performance matters. Price, styling, sound, depreciation etc are all things to be considered in a purchase. So people should go out and find the deal that works for them. The elephant in the room is the extra 63ft lb of torque that the S55 pumps out which is a big deal. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just stating a fact.

It sure as hell better have a fair amount of extra torque. It has a whole second turbo lol

I do have a question for the people who did make the switch, that power difference can easily be eliminated with a simple tune. Was that out of the question for some?

I do surely hope no one made the switch because...not 'M' engine. Perhaps some care too much what others think? I guess thats what I'm trying to get at here.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

It sure as hell better have a fair amount of extra torque. It has a whole second turbo lol

I do have a question for the people who did make the switch, that power difference can easily be eliminated with a simple tune. Was that out of the question for some?

I do surely hope no one made the switch because...not 'M' engine. Perhaps some care too much what others think? I guess thats what I'm trying to get at here.

Its a bit of a hybrid . They took the n55 spent time to tune it to make sure it can run on the m2 . They kinda did same thing on the M1 , E30 M3 , E36 , E46 , 1M etc ... they have always used parts from bmw and M just tuned them .

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Bimmer28312

Yawn.. I'm disputing it lol. Performance isn't subjective stop lying to yourself. When it comes to sports performance the OG M2 cannot compete with the competition. Yeah it sounds like shit stock for sure as I was on the fence about this alone when deciding to snag an allocation but guess what I'll tell you a secret lol. There's a pipe called AA and an exhaust called Eisenmann that solves that problem. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the majority changes exhaust on their cars and drives them. Sounding like the person who drives their car to starbuck, orders a soy latte, and says oh yeah look at my stock car that's drives so well I don't drive it lol. Come on buddy let it go.. In terms of suspension no one cares about M suspension and if you do you'd likely tune it to your liking. done! Hype lol stop convincing yourself the OG is a better performance car just because you bought one

But come on, I just laughed when that guy stated there is an extra 75kgs over the M2C's front wheels. Pretty 'factual'....whatever.
It's about 25/30kgs of additional cooling because to get rid of limp mode /heat soak N55 was famous for(happened to me twice with my ex OG M2)

Different exhaust system M2C has (and that's not over the front wheels), extra kgs. The bigger brake kit (as an option) and the tad heavier 788s vs 437. It all sums up....

But M2C turns in better is more planted, has a way better MDM/LSD mode to play with(way better!) and is just faster irl. So....
N55 sounds the best.
S55 is a gem of a high revving //M engine. I love M2C for that Motorsport engine alone. No more limp mode/heat soke for me. Thank you.


Cheers
Robin (ex M2 OG and with both attending trackdays/drifdays , Nordschlefe)

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

It sure as hell better have a fair amount of extra torque. It has a whole second turbo lol

I do have a question for the people who did make the switch, that power difference can easily be eliminated with a simple tune. Was that out of the question for some?

I do surely hope no one made the switch because...not 'M' engine. Perhaps some care too much what others think? I guess thats what I'm trying to get at here.

I didn't want to tune N55 because not much headroom, no more warranty, had heatsoak---> limpmode twice. And I wanted the high revving closed deck twin turbo //M developed S55 because I care too much about what others think, yeah you're right.

M2C S55 can be tuned too and easily (and I mean easily + 50/100hp) you are aware of that?

Enjoy you cars fellow members!

Cheers
Robin