[JK479]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Everything you're saying is already included in the original M2, the M2C in essence is a motor swap with a carbon fiber brace.

The original M2 has a strut brace also, it's just not as prominent as the M2C's carbon fiber bling.

I know this controversial dispute will never end and I don't have an M2C to test the theory but common sense is telling me if the parts are the same number, it should have the same tolerances, thus, the two cars should pretty much feel the same.

I'm not doubting you M2C owners who claim otherwise, just saying, logically it doesn't make much sense.

But adding more weight up front might have perfected the formula- it's different but isn't that what you guys are after? If they did the same car people would complain it's not worth the upgrade. But a different engine makes a whole lot of sense for handling feel- more heft on the front axial- makes sense to me and I'm not up with all the technical parts of the comp suspension. I just wish it had awd!

[natmad]

Originally Posted by JK479

I just wish it had awd!

Then the wonderfully fun rear wheel drive balance would be gone, and it would have Audi badges as well.

[Io]

Originally Posted by grinch

Something weird here: the OG M2 DCT seems pretty slower than the manual one, except when the cute girl fails her launch.
Something even weirder: the Alfa 4C is supposed to reach 200km/h in about 18s, vs 15s for the M2C. How can it win this drag race?

[ChrisK]

Well, it's official.

This thread has been added to my most annoying threads list.


1) MT vs DCT
2) M2 isn't a real M Car (aka the engine)
3) M2 vs M2C
4) e92 M3 ZCP vs non-ZCP
5) Turbo vs Naturally Aspirated

[natmad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And so the "M2C suspension parts are different but BMW kept the same OG M2 part numbers" speculative theory was bound to spend its further life in "debunked car stories" heaven.

Well... thanks moderator, for linking my posts to the appropriate articles.

Though, I was really going for the “international man of mystery, where did he find that information” look.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by natmad

Well... thanks moderator, for linking my posts to the appropriate articles.
Though, I was really going for the “international man of mystery, where did he find that information” look.

The first article I had to look up. The second article I recognized because of the word "chubby" (I used that word in a comment, got criticized for it as very un-moderator-ish, and later saw it surfacing several times). So I added the hyperlinks.

April 2018 Throwback - Stepped on some toes:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Good point: all M2 cars sold to date are actually "M2 L" (Leichtbau).
And the forthcoming one: the "M2 C" (Chubby).

Originally Posted by natmad

going for the “international man of mystery, where did he find that information” look.

Kudos to you.

Originally Posted by Tag

Some say he can communicate with your OBDII telepathically. All we know is he’s called Artemis.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The first article I had to look up. The second article I recognized because of the word "chubby" (I used that word in a comment, got criticized for it as very un-moderator-ish, and later saw it surfacing several times). So I added the hyperlinks.

April 2018 Throwback - Stepped on some toes:

Yes, "a chubby" can mean various things.

[eeyang92]

I'm glad this thread had a happy ending, I was feeling the suspense on both sides.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by eeyang92

I'm glad this thread had a happy ending, I was feeling the suspense on both sides.

I was quite shocked as well. Thought I might need to spring for a new suspension.

I'll see myself out.

[silverds]

Originally Posted by eeyang92

I'm glad this thread had a happy ending, I was feeling the suspense on both sides.

I'd say it seemed to lean more one way than the other but if it felt like equal suspense on both sides, it's probably due to perfect corner balancing.

[grinch]

Originally Posted by Io

Something weird here: the OG M2 DCT seems pretty slower than the manual one, except when the cute girl fails her launch.
Something even weirder: the Alfa 4C is supposed to reach 200km/h in about 18s, vs 15s for the M2C. How can it win this drag race?

Because the Alfa is tunned

[O Haiii]

Originally Posted by Io

Something weird here: the OG M2 DCT seems pretty slower than the manual one, except when the cute girl fails her launch.
Something even weirder: the Alfa 4C is supposed to reach 200km/h in about 18s, vs 15s for the M2C. How can it win this drag race?

It's because if you look at the start of all 3 races, the OG DCT guy starts the latest of all 3 cars. OG MT jumps the start, followed by the M2C DCT who starts at the correct time, followed by the OG DCT who lags the launch all 3 times. Jumping the start is a big advantage; OG DCT should have beat the 6MT and should have placed in between the C and 6MT. I've ran my LCI DCT with a M2C DCT a few times. After about 100 mph the C runs away quickly, but until then it's not a night and day difference.

[ZeroFx]

The old M2 squats when you accelerate. The M2c doesnt.

Something is different but nobody knows what.

[TEST DRYVER]

Originally Posted by cooler2442

Most of the guys here don't believe when I posted that the M2C suspension feels better/corners nicer than the standard M2 since BMW didn't technically change any part #'s but he confirms since he has both and drives them back to back that "something" was done since there is a substantial difference;

Here's what I find most interesting to me about this video as I'm debating between an OG M2, M2 Comp, C63s, and C63 507 Series. The M2 Comp seems to be at the top of my list, currently. The size, the fact that I can buy a manual transmission, a fkn REAL e-brake, and if I'm really going to accept a position to work in California (having to leave AZ), I can't modify in Cali (at least to my understanding). If I were able to modify cars as I've done for almost 2 dozen cars in the past, I would probably save the money, buy the OG M2 and modify it to my liking. The N55 was very reliable as I modified my wife's previous 335 M-sport EWG. I had that car up to stock M3 power levels with minimal issues and a much more comfortable adaptive suspension setup in the F30. Most interesting about this video is that I just listed my near perfect 17 Camaro ZL1 6mt with with basic (high dollar) bolt-on modifications. The guy in the video also has a ZL1 and the M2 Comp impressed him. It is difficult to drop from the power levels of a ZL1 to an M2. The gain to going with an M2 Comp would be agility, weight savings, smaller packaging (the ZL1 takes up almost the entire lane on the road), an easier to drive daily, and VISIBILITY! That last one is a real thing! You do get used to the lack of visibility in the ZL1, but California roads are less forgiving (smaller lanes, more traffic, and the need to transition through daily driving with less stress). The ZL1 comes with blind spot monitoring (which I think is a necessity in any 6th Gen Camaro), but the way I change lanes is to check my monitor, of course turn my head to make sure, then quickly accelerate before transitioning into the next lane. The plus to the ZL1 is the fact that you are faster than 99% of the cars on the road (unless you live in Miami or Beverly Hills, where you're constantly surrounded by supercars). Great video! Thanks for the post!
I'll include a couple of pics of my ZL1 6mt on the off chance there's someone viewing this, that's looking for a premium example of one, and has an M2 Comp 6mt in prime condition, looking for a trade

[Steelguin]

does it come with that monstrous wing or you added that? I like the color of the car.

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by natmad

Oh, more interesting information here...
(https://drivetribe.com/p/the-bmw-m2-...Q8i12t-CD2dViQ)

On the subject of weight balance, the M2CÂ’s balance between the front and rear has shifted slightly to the front. The main reason is of course the engine, but this is not the complete story when it comes to the subject of handling. To explain the true story of what was changed, I sat down with the chief engineer of BMW M at Ascari to run down the list of mechanical changes to the setup of the car allowing us to analyze the sheer brilliance of its new handling characteristics.

First of all, the Germans added a series of parts to the car but didnÂ’t touch the spring rates or the suspension struts. With regards to the suspension hardware nothing was changed. A new front strut brace (combinatino of a bulkheat strut & CFRP strut) from the M3/M4 allows for a much improved stiffness, a noticeable more precise turn-in and better balance at high speed. The front has a tendency of communicating its lower amount of understeer better to the driver allowing yourself to minimize it where you can. The rear bushings for the suspension mounting points keep the rear better in line with the direction of the front.

In order to ensure extremely precise wheel location, play-free ball joints are used to transmit transverse forces, similarly to the base M2. The longitudinal forces passing through the chassis are transmitted into the torque struts directly via special elastomer bearings, which simultaneously deliver the desired rolling comfort. A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2Â’s noticeable flaws. According to the chief engineer, the steering software was finetuned to allow for a more precise turn-in using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll.

Sheer brilliance of the M2 Competition is encompassed by another software change. The Germans tuned the MDM and oh good lord they have done a super job, it is the tasteful cherry on the chubby cake. Based on the M3/M4 CS MDM software, the engineers have developed a set up that allows you to lean on the traction of the rears and your steering lock in an immensely smooth, safe and non-intrusive way. The more open nature of the available playing room at the rear remembered me of the times I drove a E46 M3 (My M benchmark) aggressively. It is so lovely balanced and offers so much more sideslip that it becomes a challenging and playful game between you as a driver and the MDM who will win. In the end, it is an addictive game with the M2C in Sport Plus trying to lure you in with a rewarding present you cannot refuse, while you also know it will tell you “until here and no further” when you become too greedy.

The ability to lean on this open window within its suspension set up and not on its available powerband is what I want to see in a M car. I donÂ’t need tons of horsepower, I need sheer brilliance through my hands on the wheel and my butt in the seat, and that is exactly what this car is able to do. The level in which it puts a M smile on your face and lets you scream of joy behind the wheel is an experience I do not often have any more behind the wheel of a car. Subsequently, it also lets you completely forget the worries about its chubbiness.

I ’m done now.

This part does not make sense to me, I will break it down and add my comments:

In order to ensure extremely precise wheel location, play-free ball joints are used to transmit transverse forces, similarly to the base M2.

“similarly to the base M2”, So sounds like this "play-free ball joint" can be found on both M2 and M2C

The longitudinal forces passing through the chassis are transmitted into the torque struts directly via special elastomer bearings, which simultaneously deliver the desired rolling comfort. A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2Â’s noticeable flaws.

"deliver the desired rolling comfort", no, more direct force transmission does not give you better rolling comfort, it only makes the ride harsher.

"A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2's noticeable flaws. " Didn't he previously mention that this ball joint can be found both on M2 and M2C?

And the fact is all the bushings and joints are the same from M2 to M2C, no change is made


According to the chief engineer, the steering software was finetuned to allow for a more precise turn-in using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll.

"using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll"
On M2/M2C, steering software tuning only changes the desired assist, since M2 does not have variable-ratio steering, so it is not possible to allow less lock just by re-calibrate the software.

From what I understand, what he's trying to say here is that M2C steering has a more obvious steering torque build-up, so that under the same vehicle speed and steering angle, the effort is more, which can reduce the chance to over turning the steering at corner entry

So, what the hell is going on here.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by z19930612

This part does not make sense to me, I will break it down and add my comments:

In order to ensure extremely precise wheel location, play-free ball joints are used to transmit transverse forces, similarly to the base M2.

“similarly to the base M2”, So sounds like this "play-free ball joint" can be found on both M2 and M2C

The longitudinal forces passing through the chassis are transmitted into the torque struts directly via special elastomer bearings, which simultaneously deliver the desired rolling comfort. A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2Â’s noticeable flaws.

"deliver the desired rolling comfort", no, more direct force transmission does not give you better rolling comfort, it only makes the ride harsher.

"A noticeable difference is the decreased level of roll under turn-in, one of the M2's noticeable flaws. " Didn't he previously mention that this ball joint can be found both on M2 and M2C?

And the fact is all the bushings and joints are the same from M2 to M2C, no change is made


According to the chief engineer, the steering software was finetuned to allow for a more precise turn-in using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll.

"using less lock on the steering wheel and therefore producing less roll"
On M2/M2C, steering software tuning only changes the desired assist, since M2 does not have variable-ratio steering, so it is not possible to allow less lock just by re-calibrate the software.

From what I understand, what he's trying to say here is that M2C steering has a more obvious steering torque build-up, so that under the same vehicle speed and steering angle, the effort is more, which can reduce the chance to over turning the steering at corner entry

So, what the hell is going on here.

What is going on here is you just bumped a year old thread!

[GerryM5]

Tires

[m2c_6mt]

Back on topic, does anyone know if the OG and M2C use the same steering rack setup? I drove my friend's DCT '18 M2, and the steering felt so much better than my M2C. More direct, more centering force (like it had more caster). Any technical differences or just in my head? I just read the year old post above, which seems to indicate that the M2C should feel better but IMO (when it comes to steering feel) it doesn't...

[allinon72]

This thread is hilarious…everyone has such strong opinions one way or another but each one contradicts the other.