[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Marcumac

VRSF catted DP, 5" intercooler, CP, CTS Turbo intake and an M2 backbox. I was running E30 on a BM3 OTS map previously but I've been babying the car since the install...BM3 offers no support so I'm just running an OTS hybrid turbo map for the time being to try to keep the AFR happy.

For that reason I haven't gone WOT yet, but the power comes on a little earlier and builds similar to the stock turbo. I imagine I'll be able to share a little more in the coming weeks once the car is actually tuned to make the most of it.

No turbo inlet or DV?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

People should worry - and all you have is their word that it works.

I don't think this is a thing, and it would be hard to prove



MHD Load based tuning is better than a boost based tune like BM3, but they are tools that can lead to the same result in skilled hands. I think the concern is the copying of their specific tuning strategy (like their signature) that can be duplicated, which I get.

No one is forcing anyone to use any specific tuner, and I don't believe the gap between the tuners is that wide.

1) well if you can't trust the platform for encryption then what can you do. I guess you should avoid all online services then, because that's pretty much what it is equivalent to, there is always some trust that has to take place.


Either way bm3 has eliminated this paranoia, you can now go fully offline and use the same table editors and map definition techniques as MHD. This has brought back some tuners like twisted tuning.


2) I'm almost certain you can view every table in bm3 ots maps, and this means if a tuner sees their tables copy and pasted they can likely press charges. So I really doubt bm3 would do this, they've worked so hard on every aspect of bm3, so there's no way they're going to put that all at risk to steal an ots map made for a specific car run in specific conditions. There's a reason halim@hcp is on the bm3 team, and it's to make killer oys maps.

3) you have it completely confused on this part. You keep thinking bm3 = boost based and MHD = load based and that is fixed, but this thinking process is completely backwards and all wrong.


When you do custom tuning you don't have to make it boost based or load based. When you custom tune you can make bm3 boost based or load based it doesn't matter, because you have access to the same tables MHD does, because those tables are going to be what the damos file for the ecu has. Technically from bm3's map editor you have way more tables than mhd's public xdf, so you're already starting a bit further ahead. Anyways, you can even make MHD boost based - you got the same tables you just have to change your tuning style.


You don't seem to understand, tuning is pretty much the same regardless of platform you have, you are changing the same finite tables on the ecu. The only time it gets different is when you start using custom race roms which add custom logic to the ecu.


So in summary you have the same tables (not considering custom rom), what differentiates it is how you tune it (boost or load based), the tuning platform doesn't restrict this.




4) bm3 has a significantly better logging system. You have so many more channels and so much more customization vs. MHD. Imo mhd's data logging is garbage after using bm3.


5) the entire UI on bm3 is light years ahead of MHD, and that comes from the team of GUI developers they hired. Everything is customizable, down to the color of the guage and about of decimals you want. You don't have that level of control on MHD.


6) bm3 seems to support all roms versions of an ECU, while MHD only uses a few specific ROM versions. What does this mean? If your rom isn't supported by MHD you'll have to flash their ROM version, and this means you'll have a mismatched ROM version vs. your software level of the car. This will make spotting a tune even easier, if you care about such things.

[AmuroRay]

Learn something new every day!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Learn something new every day!

Same here!

Especially about oil, lots to learn there because it changes so fast.

[Marcumac]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Awesome are you able to test pump gas only at first at all please?
Why BM3 no support, even custom tuned? Don't get it.

Good hunting

Yes, I plan to sort out a 93 tune first before moving to a blend.

I reached out to Pro Tuning Freaks and they do not offer anything native outside of their OTS maps. Pure recommends Wedge for tuning, which uses MHD exclusively, so with that information in mind I'm making the switch.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

No turbo inlet or DV?

I opted for the upgraded inlet from Pure.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Marcumac

Yes, I plan to sort out a 93 tune first before moving to a blend.

I reached out to Pro Tuning Freaks and they do not offer anything native outside of their OTS maps. Pure recommends Wedge for tuning, which uses MHD exclusively, so with that information in mind I'm making the switch.




I opted for the upgraded inlet from Pure.

Ptf doesn't offer tuning anymore, but you can talk to Halim@hcp - he is on the bm3 team and makes the ots maps, and is very good at tuning these cars as well.

If you want an alternative to wedge (Steven is an excellent tuner don't get me wrong), you could try David shoup - he tunes bm3. I think those 2 guys are at the top of the game when it comes to bmw tuning.

[arekuf3x]

I have pure500 installed on n55 ewg 14’ 335i, mppk intake and exhaust. Arm intercooler, b58 hpfp gen 1, catted CTS downpipe, pure turbo inlet. I only did virtual dyno between when I had oem turbo running on e20 mhd stage 2+ which was showing 408whp vs 449whp mhd custom e30 tune by Jordan tuned, pure500 turbo, I know it may not be as accurate as real dyno but it shows how much better powerband is with pure500 turbo. Overall I’m very happy with it.

Ewg n55 turbo vs pure
500, @6200rpm oem turbo made 360whp vs 420whp pure500, I did run in 4th gear until 6500rpm, at 6500rpm oem turbo made 330whp vs 416whp pure500, definitely seems like it’s making 60-70whp in upper range.

[carchrism5]

Thanks arekuf3x finally some data. This was what I was hoping for, the gains to redline and the bump in peak was more than expected too. Are you planning on doing any more runs and who tuned it?

[AmuroRay]

Part of the gains are that the MHD tune does cut power down towards redline, so it’s not entirely turbo related.

I think I usually see about 360WHP or so at redline on a. BM3 E30+ tune.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Part of the gains are that the MHD tune does cut power down towards redline, so it’s not entirely turbo related.

I think I usually see about 360WHP or so at redline on a. BM3 E30+ tune.

Stg 2 E30 BM3 tunes reduce power up top so the stock HPFP doesn’t crash.

Add a Dorch and the Stg 2+ E30 tune to the stock turbo and peak is 440-445whp and redline is ~380whp.

Add a Dinan turbo and you’re at 445-450whp peak & 410whp redline.

Add a TTE460 to the same setup and you’re at 475-480whp peak and redline.

Will be interesting to see how the Pure 500 slots in between the Dinan & TTE once we get some actual dyno curves.

[arekuf3x]

Originally Posted by carchrism5

Thanks arekuf3x finally some data. This was what I was hoping for, the gains to redline and the bump in peak was more than expected too. Are you planning on doing any more runs and who tuned it?

Planning to do actual dyno runs, I had remove my high flow cat for smog, once it’s installed again. I will try get actual dyno run. It was tuned by Jordan tuned, who was great, we did about 10 revisions. Turbo can do more, my b58 hpfp began crashing above 21psi, with dorch stage 2 probably be close to tte460.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by arekuf3x

Planning to do actual dyno runs, I had remove my high flow cat for smog, once it’s installed again. I will try get actual dyno run. It was tuned by Jordan tuned, who was great, we did about 10 revisions. Turbo can do more, my b58 hpfp began crashing above 21psi, with dorch stage 2 probably be close to tte460.

That’s almost 500whp, which is pretty lofty. You think there is another 60whp in it?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

That’s almost 500whp, which is pretty lofty. You think there is another 60whp in it?

Possibly, because zm2's tte460 makes 480whp iirc, and the tte460 looks like it has clipped turbines or maybe just maybe a reworked turbine - but in either case it's no larger than stock because it fits into the stock manifold.

The pure 500 is similar because it has a reworked turbine, I'm not sure if it's larger than stock, but it's guaranteed to be reworked and optimized for flow and not just clipped. So it has the potential to reach 500 whp if all the conditions are right, but it's not guaranteed.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Possibly, because zm2's tte460 makes 480whp iirc, and the tte460 looks like it has clipped turbines or maybe just maybe a reworked turbine - but in either case it's no larger than stock because it fits into the stock manifold.

The pure 500 is similar because it has a reworked turbine, I'm not sure if it's larger than stock, but it's guaranteed to be reworked and optimized for flow and not just clipped. So it has the potential to reach 500 whp if all the conditions are right, but it's not guaranteed.

My TTE460 475-480whp dyno runs were lower than 21psi to not overwork the turbo and keep power flat bn 5.5k-redline.

A 23psi map we tried hit 494whp, but power dropped lower than the <21psi map starting at 5.7k and dropped to 450whp at redline, so I’ve skipped continuing to run that map.

Still interested to see where the Pure 500 stacks up as a low cost turbo upgrade.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

My TTE460 475-480whp dyno runs were lower than 21psi to not overwork the turbo and keep power flat bn 5.5k-redline.

A 23psi map we tried hit 494whp, but power dropped lower than the <21psi map starting at 5.7k and dropped to 450whp at redline, so I’ve skipped continuing to run that map.

Still interested to see where the Pure 500 stacks up as a low cost turbo upgrade.

Same here. I'm thinking it'll be the same as the tte460 if not slightly better due to its upgraded turbine. That's if the tte460 doesnt have an upgraded turbine itself and it's turbine is only a clipped stock turbine. But I don't suspect there to be a major difference whole the stock manifold is still present, because that's really restrictive.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

My TTE460 475-480whp dyno runs were lower than 21psi to not overwork the turbo and keep power flat bn 5.5k-redline.

A 23psi map we tried hit 494whp, but power dropped lower than the <21psi map starting at 5.7k and dropped to 450whp at redline, so I’ve skipped continuing to run that map.

Still interested to see where the Pure 500 stacks up as a low cost turbo upgrade.

?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

?

Thems da curves.

Stg 2+ E30 with E30.
Stg 2+ Multimap with PTF FlexFuel sensor and E50.
Stg 3 beta (23psi) with E50.

I’m working on a little different map with Halim at the moment. Dials back the boost in upper RPMs on the Stg 2+ MM and will increase ethanol to E60. The idea is similar power as Stg 2+ Multimap with E50, while keeping the turbo deep in its efficiency zone. That’s what the logs are showing, but I need to hit the dyno to confirm.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thems da curves.

Stg 2+ E30 with E30.
Stg 2+ Multimap with PTF FlexFuel sensor and E50.
Stg 3 beta (23psi) with E50.

I’m working on a little different map with Halim at the moment. Dials back the boost in upper RPMs on the Stg 2+ MM and will increase ethanol to E60. The idea is similar power as Stg 2+ Multimap with E50, while keeping the turbo deep in its efficiency zone. That’s what the logs are showing, but I need to hit the dyno to confirm.

Holy shit those power figures are nuts for a stage 1 turbo. It's hard to even digest these numbers, since years ago before flash tuning we were struggling to get into the 450 whp range.

Are these maps going to be published eventually?

But damn that's a lot of power, it's going to be a struggle keeping it cool on track.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Holy shit those power figures are nuts for a stage 1 turbo. It's hard to even digest these numbers, since years ago before flash tuning we were struggling to get into the 450 whp range.

Are these maps going to be published eventually?

But damn that's a lot of power, it's going to be a struggle keeping it cool on track.

The two Stg 2+ maps turned into OTS maps. The Stg 3 beta was to see how far we could push a Stg 1 turbo, and we found a limit.

However, the Stg 2+ Multimap ended up being a little too much for the stock turbo guys, so v1.2 was released recently.That meant a little less power for my setup, so I’m working with Halim on getting some power back but with less boost and more ethanol timing to keep the turbo super happy.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

The two Stg 2+ maps turned into OTS maps. The Stg 3 beta was to see how far we could push a Stg 1 turbo, and we found a limit.

However, the Stg 2+ Multimap ended up being a little too much for the stock turbo guys, so v1.2 was released recently.That meant a little less power for my setup, so I’m working with Halim on getting some power back but with less boost and more ethanol timing to keep the turbo super happy.

Nice!

It would be cool if bm3 would have upgraded turbo maps specifically, like stage 1 and stage 2 turbos.

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by F87source

Nice!

It would be cool if bm3 would have upgraded turbo maps specifically, like stage 1 and stage 2 turbos.

Stage 3 was supposed to be the upgraded turbo map, But it was abandoned

[F87source]

Originally Posted by NEWTRON

Stage 3 was supposed to be the upgraded turbo map, But it was abandoned

I see, hopefully they bring it back, it would be nice to have an OTS map for that.