[edycol]

So Ethanol in picture? Run 5W50! While HTHS is very important, your real problem is dilution. In the summer you can run 15W50 easily. Try Mobil1 15W50 available in Wal Mart. It has also Zinc at 1,300ppm and it is formulated for track use.
Other choices:
Motul Sport 5W50
Redline 5W50
Motul 5W50 300V
Motul 15W50 300V
Total 10W50.
Mobil1 5W50.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ZM2

True, true.

Since I’ll hit 270F oil temp many times on a track weekend, I filtered my oil search to only those with HTHS >4, but like you said that’s not the end all/be all for track worthiness for my conditions.

So, oil temperature above 270, HTHS above 4 is good choice. But, if your vehicle is track animal I would go Motul 300V. IMO that is best bet for vehicles that are living on the track.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by edycol

So, oil temperature above 270, HTHS above 4 is good choice. But, if your vehicle is track animal I would go Motul 300V. IMO that is best bet for vehicles that are living on the track.

Well….

I ran 300V 10w-40 and it worked good. 300v 5w-40 was too thin (the 300v oils are on the thin side) and I’d have to add quarts, just like the 0W oils. There was some concern that the 300v 10w-40 didn’t have good enough additives to use as a year round street & track oil, so I opt’ed for Redline Euro 5W-40 instead.

So basically I’m not sure which oil to run year round for a tuned E50 car that sees super hot track days, semi-cold winter starts (25F), with good enough additives.

More discussion: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1749349
Redline 5W-40 Euro VOA: http://wedontlikeu.com/car/VOA/RedLi...uro%205w40.jpg
Redline 5W-40 VOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-think.235652/
300V 10W-40 UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...0l-coy.307140/
I couldn't find a VOA for the 300V 10-40W, and I don't have a UOA for the Redline Euro from my car, yet.

300V 5W-40 UOA from my car below. I changed back to the stock paper air filter from the aFe dry drop-in air filter b/c of the silicon comments. Also, this oil only had 2500 street miles and a track day, and I had to add a quart, so practically virgin--heh. Again, 300V 5W-40 is too thin with my E50 tune, so trying to choose b/n 300V 10W-40 or one of the Redline's.

[M Fifty]

So, the real issue is not the oil, but that you're running the car on a mix of moonshine and sulphur instead of gasoline...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

So, the real issue is not the oil, but that you're running the car on a mix of moonshine and sulphur instead of gasoline...

Hahah. Hey, I'm not the only one here doing so, just seem to be the first to bring up finding a good oil to use when running a high Emix & tune and pushing the car, so maybe this will save some guys a similar headache.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hahah. Hey, I'm not the only one here doing so, just seem to be the first to bring up finding a good oil to use when running a high Emix & tune and pushing the car, so maybe this will save some guys a similar headache.

I would just continue to run the redline oil then if it is working well for you. It's got a low enough pour point where winter starts shouldn't be too much of an issue for you at 25F if you let it warm up properly.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

I would just continue to run the redline oil then if it is working well for you. It's got a low enough pour point where winter starts shouldn't be too much of an issue for you at 25F if you let it warm up properly.

The viscosities and HTHS of the two 5W-40 Redline’s and the 300V 10W-40 seem to fit for my use case (not too thin, not too thick), but when comparing VOA/UOA’s bn the oils, any idea what values we want to target for the various additives?

[edycol]

So, if oil requires dual use; lot of street driving, you need dual purpose oil like Motul Sport 5W50.
As for 300V being thin, that is the point of oil like that. Thicker oil means more parasitic loss. That is supplemented with strong base stock and additives. Just bcs. 300V has HTHS 4.1 in 5W40 application doesn't mean it is bad or worse than Redline. Its KV100 is 13.5 which means very good Ester base stock. Redline does have higher HTHS, but also has higher KV100 at 15.6. Redline too is not long OCI oil, not bcs. lacks detergents or dispersants but bcs. high oxidation which is typical of oils with high ester base stock.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Well….

I ran 300V 10w-40 and it worked good. 300v 5w-40 was too thin (the 300v oils are on the thin side) and I'd have to add quarts, just like the 0W oils. There was some concern that the 300v 10w-40 didn't have good enough additives to use as a year round street & track oil, so I opt'ed for Redline Euro 5W-40 instead.

So basically I'm not sure which oil to run year round for a tuned E50 car that sees super hot track days, semi-cold winter starts (25F), with good enough additives.

More discussion: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1749349
Redline 5W-40 Euro VOA: http://wedontlikeu.com/car/VOA/RedLi...uro%205w40.jpg
Redline 5W-40 VOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-think.235652/
300V 10W-40 UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...0l-coy.307140/
I couldn't find a VOA for the 300V 10-40W, and I don't have a UOA for the Redline Euro from my car, yet.

300V 5W-40 UOA from my car below. I changed back to the stock paper air filter from the aFe dry drop-in air filter b/c of the silicon comments. Also, this oil only had 2500 street miles and a track day, and I had to add a quart, so practically virgin--heh. Again, 300V 5W-40 is too thin with my E50 tune, so trying to choose b/n 300V 10W-40 or one of the Redline's.

You are missing two most important variables here: TBN and TAN.
UOA is not designed to give you picture how your engine looks like. It can point to certain issues, but it is designed to give you picture into state of oil. Without TBN and especially TAN when it comes to oils designed for track, that is impossible.
What I can tell from this is that bcs. you are running moonshine, as someone said here, you really need to bump it to W50 oil.
In summer you can run 15W50 without issues. In winter switch to 5W50.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by edycol

You are missing two most important variables here: TBN and TAN.
UOA is not designed to give you picture how your engine looks like. It can point to certain issues, but it is designed to give you picture into state of oil. Without TBN and especially TAN when it comes to oils designed for track, that is impossible.
What I can tell from this is that bcs. you are running moonshine, as someone said here, you really need to bump it to W50 oil.
In summer you can run 15W50 without issues. In winter switch to 5W50.

I can get those values on future UOA’s. Sounds like any of the oils should work, but I’ll try to get more usage data.

I do remember the engine seeming a little freer revving with the Motul and took a little longer to warm up which helped with oil temps at the track, so IDK, maybe I’ll go back to 300V 10w-40 (which is actually thinner than the redline 5w-40’s).

I’m not quite on board with going with a 50w oil unless I’m consuming oil or UOA shows it’s not holding up after hot track use.

[KevinC]

If you order an oil change kit for the M2/M2c right now from ECS Tuning, this is the oil they are shipping.. old TwinPower 0W-30, which their chart says is the "proper" oil for just about every VW built since the Eisenhower administration...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/83212365946/

Anyone have any qualms about running this stuff in the S55?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by KevinC

If you order an oil change kit for the M2/M2c right now from ECS Tuning, this is the oil they are shipping.. old TwinPower 0W-30, which their chart says is the "proper" oil for just about every VW built since the Eisenhower administration...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/83212365946/

Anyone have any qualms about running this stuff in the S55?

You linked the ll01 5w30 oil that was a GTL base so the shell stuff. This is really damn good oil like it's some really good stuff (alot better than the ll01fe 0w30 tpt oil) and yeah it's perfect to run.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I can get those values on future UOA's. Sounds like any of the oils should work, but I'll try to get more usage data.

I do remember the engine seeming a little freer revving with the Motul and took a little longer to warm up which helped with oil temps at the track, so IDK, maybe I'll go back to 300V 10w-40 (which is actually thinner than the redline 5w-40's).

I'm not quite on board with going with a 50w oil unless I'm consuming oil or UOA shows it's not holding up after hot track use.

I will review your UOA's ince I am back from family road trip.
But, Motul will rev freely as it is thinner.
Drop in viscosity after 2,500 miles indicates dilution. Redline is heavier (it is always on heavier side of grade spectrum) and accordingly, it will end up thicker after same amount of miles. Don't be hesitant about W50. Redline 5W40 has HTHS of Mobil1 15W50. But, M1 will give you bit more cushion shearing wise.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by edycol

I will review your UOA's ince I am back from family road trip.
But, Motul will rev freely as it is thinner.
Drop in viscosity after 2,500 miles indicates dilution. Redline is heavier (it is always on heavier side of grade spectrum) and accordingly, it will end up thicker after same amount of miles. Don't be hesitant about W50. Redline 5W40 has HTHS of Mobil1 15W50. But, M1 will give you bit more cushion shearing wise.

Hey edycol I've been going thru the comments in all the other VOA threads, and basically each oil has pros/cons depending on specific use, and I'm still liking the VOA specs on the Redline Euro 5W-40 for my case.

Zinc is a little low but HTHS is 4.3 to counter that, and the viscosities look good for summer track use and not too thick for mild winters (25F), plus I'm running half E85 which will dilute the oil slightly.

Altho, TBN is pretty low: http://wedontlikeu.com/car/VOA/RedLi...uro%205w40.jpg. I guess that just means the oil will need to be changed more frequently. When I do my UOA for this oil, what is the lowest TBN that you like to see? Does TBN decrease just from engine/oil use, or will TBN also decrease if a car is not being driven much during winter?

Basically, I'll either run Redline Euro 5W-40 or 300V 10W-40 year round (street and track) since I don't drive much in the winter, don't put too many miles on the car so OCI isn't a concern (5-7K miles/yr with 2 oil changes), and most of the miles I do are tough on the engine.

Thanks!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hey edycol I've been going thru the comments in all the other VOA threads, and basically each oil has pros/cons depending on specific use, and I'm still liking the VOA specs on the Redline Euro 5W-40 for my case.

Zinc is a little low but HTHS is 4.3 to counter that, and the viscosities look good for summer track use and not too thick for mild winters (25F), plus I'm running half E85 which will dilute the oil slightly.

Altho, TBN is pretty low: http://wedontlikeu.com/car/VOA/RedLi...uro%205w40.jpg. I guess that just means the oil will need to be changed more frequently. When I do my UOA for this oil, what is the lowest TBN that you like to see? Does TBN decrease just from engine/oil use, or will TBN also decrease if a car is not being driven much during winter?

Basically, I'll either run Redline Euro 5W-40 or 300V 10W-40 year round (street and track) since I don't drive much in the winter, don't put too many miles on the car so OCI isn't a concern (5-7K miles/yr with 2 oil changes), and most of the miles I do are tough on the engine.

Thanks!

The reason for lower Zinc and TBN is that that particular RL is Low-SAPS. It is designed for engines with DPF or GPF. If you don't have GPF get Redline Performance 5W40.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by edycol

The reason for lower Zinc and TBN is that that particular RL is Low-SAPS. It is designed for engines with DPF or GPF. If you don't have GPF get Redline Performance 5W40.

The regular Redline is a bit thicker than what I want to run year round, so I’ll probably just go back to the 300V 10W-40 since it’s a little thinner than the 5W-40 RL’s, has more additives than the RL Euro, and worked good for me in the past.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ZM2

The regular Redline is a bit thicker than what I want to run year round, so I’ll probably just go back to the 300V 10W-40 since it’s a little thinner than the 5W-40 RL’s, has more additives than the RL Euro, and worked good for me in the past.

Yes, 300V is generally thinner than RL in same grade.

[Doublej]

Hey Guys,

Couple questions.

1. What do you recommend for a mainly track focused S55 with a bit of weekend driving. I do drive to/from the track which this year is ~3hrs away.
2. Stored over the winter, what do you recommend I change to for storage and early-spring driving before going back to track-focused oil?

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up and only ~400KM since my break-in service. I'll probably leave the BMW oil in for this year. Weather is cool now also. For the start of next season I'll swap to a more track focused oil.

JJ

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up. I've only had ~400km since my break-in service so I'll probably leave the bmw oil in there

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Doublej

Hey Guys,

Couple questions.

1. What do you recommend for a mainly track focused S55 with a bit of weekend driving. I do drive to/from the track which this year is ~3hrs away.
2. Stored over the winter, what do you recommend I change to for storage and early-spring driving before going back to track-focused oil?

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up and only ~400KM since my break-in service. I'll probably leave the BMW oil in for this year. Weather is cool now also. For the start of next season I'll swap to a more track focused oil.

JJ

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up. I've only had ~400km since my break-in service so I'll probably leave the bmw oil in there

You could probably use the Motul X-Cess Gen2 5w-40 for both.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Doublej

Hey Guys,

Couple questions.

1. What do you recommend for a mainly track focused S55 with a bit of weekend driving. I do drive to/from the track which this year is ~3hrs away.
2. Stored over the winter, what do you recommend I change to for storage and early-spring driving before going back to track-focused oil?

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up and only ~400KM since my break-in service. I'll probably leave the BMW oil in for this year. Weather is cool now also. For the start of next season I'll swap to a more track focused oil.

JJ

I have my first 2-3 track days coming up. I've only had ~400km since my break-in service so I'll probably leave the bmw oil in there

Motul Sport 5W40 for dual street/track.

Motul Sport 5W40 Synthetic Engine Oil 5 L https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXUHRV0...EWAY6ADJPNDXG4

If you are in period of constant track days, back to back, Motul 5W40 300V.

For winter, and time when not on track or just day here and there Castrol 0W40.

All this if warranty not important.
If it is:
Motul 5W40 X-Cess GEN2.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40.

[Doublej]

Originally Posted by chris719

You could probably use the Motul X-Cess Gen2 5w-40 for both.

Originally Posted by edycol

Motul Sport 5W40 for dual street/track.

Motul Sport 5W40 Synthetic Engine Oil 5 L https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXUHRV0...EWAY6ADJPNDXG4

If you are in period of constant track days, back to back, Motul 5W40 300V.

For winter, and time when not on track or just day here and there Castrol 0W40.

All this if warranty not important.
If it is:
Motul 5W40 X-Cess GEN2.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll check out Motul 5W40 X-Cess GEN2.

JJ

[EDWYER]

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 on order.