[sth519]

Originally Posted by dammitcubs

Is it fair to say that if you are okay with weight on the M235i, you should be okay with the M2?

Nobody here has driven the M2 yet but my guess would be that the weight difference (the M2 is slightly heavier) is the last thing you'll notice between the two cars.

[ASAP]

I really want to like this car because I think the price of the car is very fair and I think the looks of the car are outstanding but...

There are a few things that truly throw me off-

1) Weight - Its almost as heavy as the far larger M3.
2) No usage of CF bits on exterior
3) Interior isn't really any better than M235i... I mean they couldnt have even used slightly higher quality leather or at least the gloss CF trim like an M3 does over a regular 3.
4) And the biggest one of all - The N55 motor... no matter how you slice this, its still an N55... the tuning capability isn't close to any of the other BMW turbo 6 motors on the stock turbo. This car will be maxed under 400 WHP on the stock turbo, maybe a tad over on e85... a stock S55 in the m3 makes 420 WHP... lol

I dont' really care about the mirrors or the M buttons or even the tranny shift speed or the adap susp... but the above items that I named simply needed to be better and they aren't.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I really want to like this car because I think the price of the car is very fair and I think the looks of the car are outstanding but...

There are a few things that truly throw me off-


4) And the biggest one of all - The N55 motor... no matter how you slice this, its still an N55... the tuning capability isn't close to any of the other BMW turbo 6 motors on the stock turbo. This car will be maxed under 400 WHP on the stock turbo, maybe a tad over on e85... a stock S55 in the m3 makes 420 WHP... lol

Not sure why they didn't put in the new engine in the 340 (B whatever) and tune that as it seems to put out quite a bit more power than the N55 stock.

[Squddie]

Justified or not, the weight of the M2, and the entire 2-series, is a major disappointment. And yes I think the major contributor is cost savings from not using advanced materials.

The situation is a bit better for the convertible since the 4-series drags the hardtop around. But alas a M2 isn't even announced.

Then there is the issue that the M4 can be ordered in individual colors and with individual leather and has a better Harman Kardon sound system. Lots of nice bits from the 4-series never made it to the 2-series. Which IMHO isn't OK if the weight stays the same.

[crqflier]

I wonder if the quoted weights are for "base" cars across each model (m2, m3, m4, m235i). If so, now that we know the M2 base is fairly loaded, seems like it's an apples to oranges comparison. I'd guess identical equipment would produce a great weight difference. With that said, I suppose you can compare stripped m3 vs basically loaded m2 if you want.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I really want to like this car because I think the price of the car is very fair and I think the looks of the car are outstanding but...

There are a few things that truly throw me off-

1) Weight - Its almost as heavy as the far larger M3.
2) No usage of CF bits on exterior
3) Interior isn't really any better than M235i... I mean they couldnt have even used slightly higher quality leather or at least the gloss CF trim like an M3 does over a regular 3.
4) And the biggest one of all - The N55 motor... no matter how you slice this, its still an N55... the tuning capability isn't close to any of the other BMW turbo 6 motors on the stock turbo. This car will be maxed under 400 WHP on the stock turbo, maybe a tad over on e85... a stock S55 in the m3 makes 420 WHP... lol

I dont' really care about the mirrors or the M buttons or even the tranny shift speed or the adap susp... but the above items that I named simply needed to be better and they aren't.

1) - Agree
2) - good thing no one told you to expect this
3) - see above- ALSO see - 1M vs 135
4) - if the turbo isn't different- See above if the turbo is different.. BMW just sank your whiny tuning battleship

I guess you can't live with a " puny" 400 whp..

Since most of your complaints were already anticpated/expected.. and now are confirmed.. . looks like it's officially time to F$*k off and buy an M3/M4

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Not sure why they didn't put in the new engine in the 340 (B whatever) and tune that as it seems to put out quite a bit more power than the N55 stock.

how about.. Reliability from a known powerplant. ? ....

[pup73]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I really want to like this car because I think the price of the car is very fair and I think the looks of the car are outstanding but...

There are a few things that truly throw me off-

1) Weight - Its almost as heavy as the far larger M3.
2) No usage of CF bits on exterior
3) Interior isn't really any better than M235i... I mean they couldnt have even used slightly higher quality leather or at least the gloss CF trim like an M3 does over a regular 3.
4) And the biggest one of all - The N55 motor... no matter how you slice this, its still an N55... the tuning capability isn't close to any of the other BMW turbo 6 motors on the stock turbo. This car will be maxed under 400 WHP on the stock turbo, maybe a tad over on e85... a stock S55 in the m3 makes 420 WHP... lol

I dont' really care about the mirrors or the M buttons or even the tranny shift speed or the adap susp... but the above items that I named simply needed to be better and they aren't.

So basically, you wanted BMW to release a faster, lighter, more powerful car than the M3/4, but at the M2 price point....

ok..

-c

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

1) - Agree
2) - good thing no one told you to expect this
3) - see above- ALSO see - 1M vs 135
4) - if the turbo isn't different- See above if the turbo is different.. BMW just sank your whiny tuning battleship

I guess you can't live with a " puny" 400 whp..

Since most of your complaints were already anticpated/expected.. and now are confirmed.. . looks like it's officially time to F$*k off and buy an M3/M4

The turbo is identical... when an OEM manufacturer swaps a turbo setup it is then designated with a different motor name.

Also, those are very strong words from a BMW CCA Chapter President...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by pup73

So basically, you wanted BMW to release a faster, lighter, more powerful car than the M3/4, but at the M2 price point....

ok..

-c

Uh no, I was asking for a car that is 50lbs lighter than the current one with a different motor or one that could make at least another 20-30 hp stock. The difference back in the 1M days was the stock turbo N54 could make far more power tuned than an M3... clearly the same distal proximity is not in the same universe this time around. Oh and well the fact that it was a car that only 740 people could have.

Everything else would have been an added bonus... albeit the price is good for this car but imho not good enough to negate the 11k difference between an m3 that comes with so much more.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The turbo is identical... when an OEM manufacturer swaps a turbo setup it is then designated with a different motor name.

Also, those are very strong words from a BMW CCA Chapter President...

When a turbo is swapped, the motor is given a new name..... You mean a name like N55B30TO?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Uh no, I was asking for a car that is 50lbs lighter than the current one with a different motor or one that could make at least another 20-30 hp stock. The difference back in the 1M days was the stock turbo N54 could make far more power tuned than an M3... clearly the same distal proximity is not in the same universe this time around. Oh and well the fact that it was a car that only 740 people could have.

Everything else would have been an added bonus... albeit the price is good for this car but imho not good enough to negate the 11k difference between an m3 that comes with so much more.

Exactly why I said you need to get an M4.

Quit complaining about the M2 and go get an M4 or go and find a 1M used and buy now !

I have no idea why you are fascinated with the fact that the 1M with a turbo could be TUNED to a level higher than the naturally aspirated E9X M3.

Of course it happened, but now You act like that was by design and supposed to happen with the current models ?

Now that both the M2 and M4 are turbo motors why the hell would anyone think that a motor in the M2 that could/should be tuned to be more than the stock M4? Why is that factor of any importance ??

Here is what BMW AG Is saying to you ...

" If you want M4 power then get an M4 instead of a hoping for a M2 with a 1k tune."

It sounds like you already feel that in your assessment of value, the M4 is the better vehicle. I GA-Ron- Tee you that BMW AG is smiling right now because they would RATHER that you f*#k off and buy an M4.

They will have that M4 in stock for you.
They will let you order it individual.
They will have an M3 ready to.
There will be discounts available on the M4
There will be a better lease rate on the M4

Why? Because ( on average ) BMW will make more profit on every M4 sold than they will for each M2 sold.

In manufacturing, The delivered cost of an item continues to drop as more of that item is produced. When you look at 3/4 series production which is clearly a factor of ten higher than 2 series production, one easily begins to see where the money is made.

[W///]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Uh no, I was asking for a car that is 50lbs lighter than the current one with a different motor or one that could make at least another 20-30 hp stock. The difference back in the 1M days was the stock turbo N54 could make far more power tuned than an M3... clearly the same distal proximity is not in the same universe this time around. Oh and well the fact that it was a car that only 740 people could have.

Everything else would have been an added bonus... albeit the price is good for this car but imho not good enough to negate the 11k difference between an m3 that comes with so much more.

What's the point of comparing a 1M and it's tuneability vs a high strung normally aspirated V8?

Personally, if I did get an M2, or M3, I really really have 0 interested in upping in either of them. They're borderline useless for everyday driving as is.

And I have to ask. Can you even feel 50 lbs? I certainly can't.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

When a turbo is swapped, the motor is given a new name..... You mean a name like N55B30TO?

The 1M's turbo was also far different than the n54 135i's, it also got that designation

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by W///

What's the point of comparing a 1M and it's tuneability vs a high strung normally aspirated V8?

Personally, if I did get an M2, or M3, I really really have 0 interested in upping in either of them. They're borderline useless for everyday driving as is.

And I have to ask. Can you even feel 50 lbs? I certainly can't.

While I completely understand this, the mistake was made last time around... I think people as a whole had slightly higher expectations for this car, but we havent seen it perform yet, so I cant speak.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I really want to like this car because I think the price of the car is very fair and I think the looks of the car are outstanding but...

There are a few things that truly throw me off-

1) Weight - Its almost as heavy as the far larger M3.
2) No usage of CF bits on exterior
3) Interior isn't really any better than M235i... I mean they couldnt have even used slightly higher quality leather or at least the gloss CF trim like an M3 does over a regular 3.
4) And the biggest one of all - The N55 motor... no matter how you slice this, its still an N55... the tuning capability isn't close to any of the other BMW turbo 6 motors on the stock turbo. This car will be maxed under 400 WHP on the stock turbo, maybe a tad over on e85... a stock S55 in the m3 makes 420 WHP... lol

I dont' really care about the mirrors or the M buttons or even the tranny shift speed or the adap susp... but the above items that I named simply needed to be better and they aren't.

I've already been wondering how hard it will be to swap an S55 into an M2...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I've already been wondering how hard it will be to swap an S55 into an M2...

probably much easier than swapping a V8 into a 1M.. (hehehe... yes... please hack up an M2.... )

it's settled.. @ASAP needs to buy an M2 and then drop an S55 into it.. I approve this message!

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by W///

And I have to ask. Can you even feel 50 lbs? I certainly can't.

If she's laying next to (or on) you in bed, I bet you sure as hell can tell the difference between 120lbs and 170lbs

You can feel it!

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by W///

What's the point of comparing a 1M and it's tuneability vs a high strung normally aspirated V8?

Personally, if I did get an M2, or M3, I really really have 0 interested in upping in either of them. They're borderline useless for everyday driving as is.

And I have to ask. Can you even feel 50 lbs? I certainly can't.

I agree that anything over 300 whp can't really be opened up on the street, but hopefully people who are buying an M car will also hit the track where 400 whp can definitely be utilized. If not, then why even buy an M car? For the image? People who do not care about power and track performance should just buy the xy35i. Also, modding my cars has always been enjoyable and I don't plan on stopping with the M2

[W///]

Originally Posted by synergist

I agree that anything over 300 whp can't really be opened up on the street, but hopefully people who are buying an M car will also hit the track where 400 whp can definitely be utilized. If not, then why even buy an M car? For the image? People who do not care about power and track performance should just buy the xy35i. Also, modding my cars has always been enjoyable and I don't plan on stopping with the M2

Oh don't get me wrong, I like a fast car as much as the next person. I also love modding them, that's definitely a passion of mine.

But on the track, I had my stage 2 tuned E92 M3 which is not THAT crazy considering you got Z06s and Vipers with much more power than that these days. Not once did I think, man I need more power. As a matter of fact, I think my E36 M3 with its lowly 240 hp might have been even more fun at the track

Let's put it this way, I'm nowhere near of a good enough driver to take 100% advantage of these new turbo cars anyway. Plus my cars spend 99% of the time on the street. But I completely see your point of course

[hans007]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Not sure why they didn't put in the new engine in the 340 (B whatever) and tune that as it seems to put out quite a bit more power than the N55 stock.

because its a new engine and M needs time to figure it out.

the S54 in the e46 m3 and various other cars was based off the older m50 not the m52 that was in the normal E46 cars. M tunes and engine in the end, and they want something they already know the limits of

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Oh don't get me wrong, I like a fast car as much as the next person. I also love modding them, that's definitely a passion of mine.

But on the track, I had my stage 2 tuned E92 M3 which is not THAT crazy considering you got Z06s and Vipers with much more power than that these days. Not once did I think, man I need more power. As a matter of fact, I think my E36 M3 with its lowly 240 hp might have been even more fun at the track

Let's put it this way, I'm nowhere near of a good enough driver to take 100% advantage of these new turbo cars anyway. Plus my cars spend 99% of the time on the street. But I completely see your point of course

Agree here. I autocross and track my car very often and "moar powah" is not needed here either.


Agree with you on getting the most out of a 240 hp E36.