[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'm trying reeeeealllly hard not to roll my eyes, or to take a deep breath before a lonnnng sigh ... oh, damn. Too late.

(By the way: Last time I checked, 150 + 40 = 190, which rounds up to 200. That qualifies as 'hundreds'. Nice try.)

U can roll anything u want, I am just giving u some facts

911 turbo 3500
Acura NSX 3800
S550 4800
GTR 3900
RS5 4000
Audi R8 3600
E46 M3 3400
E92 M3 3700
All modern Ferraris weight around 3500
RC-F close to 4000
Corvette 3300-3500
C63 AMG coupe 3800
GT350 3800
.....oh....wait for it....M235 3500

Obviously weight is not everything, it's how everything works together in one package.....and a proper LSD will outweigh that extra 150 lbs by a mile (been proven before too)

PS. Honda Civic weights 2700-2900 lbs. I am wondering if you think it's better then your car? It should be according to your logic. 600 pounds difference there.

Edit: You also all forgot that all those weight numbers are for base models, and loaded 328 with m235 performance bits and pieces will weight more then what's on the websites. The real difference could be as little as 100 pounds when you add EDC, Adaptive lights, 18-wheels, and bigger brakes
And "not as fun or as well balanced a car for everyday use"....you can feed this bullshit to others, up until last week I had S2000 which I drove for 5 years and back to back with M235i. The most fun part about S2000 wasn't handling which is worlds apart from 228i, but it's high performance high rev engine and 6-speed transmission

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

U can roll anything u want, I am just giving u some facts

911 turbo 3500
Acura NSX 3800
S550 4800
GTR 3900
RS5 4000
Audi R8 3600
E46 M3 3400
E92 M3 3700
All modern Ferraris weight around 3500
RC-F close to 4000
Corvette 3300-3500
C63 AMG coupe 3800
GT350 3800
.....oh....wait for it....M235 3500

Obviously weight is not everything, it's how everything works together in one package.....and a proper LSD will outweigh that extra 150 lbs by a mile (been proven before too)

PS. Honda Civic weights 2700-2900 lbs. I am wondering if you think it's better then your car? It should be according to your logic. 600 pounds difference there.

Edit: You also all forgot that all those weight numbers are for base models, and loaded 328 with m235 performance bits and pieces will weight more then what's on the websites. The real difference could be as little as 100 pounds when you add EDC, Adaptive lights, 18-wheels, and bigger brakes
And "not as fun or as well balanced a car for everyday use"....you can feed this bullshit to others, up until last week I had S2000 which I drove for 5 years and back to back with M235i. The most fun part about S2000 wasn't handling which is worlds apart from 228i, but it's high performance high rev engine and 6-speed transmission

With all due respect: every single example you give is an orange compared to an apple. The point of my post was to make a point about weight with the same or similar model car.

If you want the last word, have it. Hell: even throw vulgarity in there for emphasis. Plainly you're one of the butt-hurt ones.

'Weight' for it ...

:: rolls eyes ::

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

With all due respect: every single example you give is an orange compared to an apple. The point of my post was to make a point about weight with the same or similar model car.

If you want the last word, have it. Hell: even throw vulgarity in there for emphasis. Plainly you're one of the butt-hurt ones.

'Weight' for it ...

:: rolls eyes ::

The point of my post is simple, weight is not everything. Especially when that weight could be 100-150 pound max. And that suspension parts on 228 vs 235 are different to compensate for the weight. If I was hurt, I would keep my S2000 (2850lbs) or trade-in my M235i and get 228i with cash on top.

Its just silly to say that 228 is more fun and more balanced in daily use. Autox maybe slightly if both have track packages and open diff. But even for autox i would pick 235 with lsd if that was an option. Its just as silly as me going to M2 forums are crapping all over that car because I have M235i.....I dont do that, and I know I would rather have M2 because its a better car and more fun then both 228 and 235

In normal daily use and some spirited driving I missed N54 when I bought S2000, and I know for a fact that I will miss S2000 engine and tranny now that I bought M235i.....thank god its manual with lsd

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

PS. Honda Civic weights 2700-2900 lbs. I am wondering if you think it's better then your car? It should be according to your logic. 600 pounds difference there.
...
And "not as fun or as well balanced a car for everyday use"....you can feed this bullshit to others, up until last week I had S2000 which I drove for 5 years and back to back with M235i. The most fun part about S2000 wasn't handling which is worlds apart from 228i, but it's high performance high rev engine and 6-speed transmission

I've always amazed how well the civics do at autocross... for that purpose of getting a low time they're are few cars better. Wish i could get my car to 2900lbs... YES you can feel the difference. I've experienced a 150-200lbs change many times with autocross ride alongs it is substantial in that environment... and it matters if that's what you do with the car.

What is your beef with someone's view of fun? I really don't get it.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

I've always amazed how well the civics do at autocross... for that purpose of getting a low time they're are few cars better. Wish i could get my car to 2900lbs... YES you can feel the difference. I've experienced a 150-200lbs change many times with autocross ride alongs it is substantial in that environment... and it matters if that's what you do with the car.

What is your beef with someone's subjective view of fun? I really don't get it.

no beef, its just bs. its probably more like 100-150 lbs too since that 200 lbs difference is for base models, m235i already comes loaded.

and i am not arguing that 150 pound cant be felt on autox, they can be. thats why i do understand why some get the lightest version possible. but most get it for different reasons and then all bs comes out, how its more fun daily driving it.

S2000 was obviously fun in handling too when you take the ramps at crazy speeds close to triple digits.....but thats not really daily driving. In my head I am not even comparing 228 to 235, its s2k vs 235i for me, and thats roughly 700 lbs difference (228 vs S2k do have same HP number though)

I guess could depend on location too, here in MA all roads are straight and its fun to open up that F22C in S2000 and N55 in BMW, could be different in mountains

[qnet]

Kind of off the subject, but I've always heard good things about the S2000. I remember when it came out. It had the same HP as my E36 M3 (240).

[jeremicium]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Care to elaborate? I've always wanted to drive and compare the 2 but haven't been able to. Everyone I've asked/reviews read on this forum said they actually feel very similar for being two different tranys. I would assume the ZF would be nicer though.

In general I am a manual transmission fanatic. My M4, S2000, and 4runner all have MT. Wife has an X1 with the 4 cylinder N20 and the ZF 8 speed. The engine paired with that tranny feels pretty quick. The 228i feels even quicker with the ZF. But with the manual transmission the 228i felt off to me. Felt like the gears were spread too wide. It's maybe just what i'm used to, you might feel different if you have never driven a car with the N20 and ZF.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by qnet

Kind of off the subject, but I've always heard good things about the S2000. I remember when it came out. It had the same HP as my E36 M3 (240).

It's one of the best cars ever made. And 6-speed manual is the best tranny in any car even today. Engine is addictive, makes the right noises etc. Car is just work of art and feels like its light years ahead of BMW in everything but power and luxury.

Funny that it was the 1st car to introduce electric steering back in 2000 and it's perfect, better then in m235i

I switched because after 5 years even S2000 can get boring, it took me 1 year to get bored of e92 335i. Power, luxury, and new car smell are nice to have....Really wanted ISF not BMW though, I don't trust it's poor reliability record but keeping my fingers crossed now

[jeremicium]

I can't see ever getting rid of my S. Though i've only had it for three years. 2001 with 37k miles...put about 3k miles a year max, and about 6 track days a year.

I'd have to say that i think the 6 speed in the Cayman S is about as good as the S, and the pedal placement for heel toe is even better. Cayman S is without a doubt my next car. Better than the S, better than my M.

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

It's one of the best cars ever made. And 6-speed manual is the best tranny in any car even today. Engine is addictive, makes the right noises etc. Car is just work of art and feels like its light years ahead of BMW in everything but power and luxury.

Funny that it was the 1st car to introduce electric steering back in 2000 and it's perfect, better then in m235i

I switched because after 5 years even S2000 can get boring, it took me 1 year to get bored of e92 335i. Power, luxury, and new car smell are nice to have....Really wanted ISF not BMW though, I don't trust it's poor reliability record but keeping my fingers crossed now

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

I can't see ever getting rid of my S. Though i've only had it for three years. 2001 with 37k miles...put about 3k miles a year max, and about 6 track days a year.

I'd have to say that i think the 6 speed in the Cayman S is about as good as the S, and the pedal placement for heel toe is even better. Cayman S is without a doubt my next car. Better than the S, better than my M.

My S was daily, and I can't afford new Cayman S. I did look at used ones....there was a cheap 2008 Cayman S Design Edition 1 with like 15-20k miles, but I figured M235 is more practical and might be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

I wasn't a big fan of Porsche manual, maybe new 7-speed is better, haven't driven that yet. Although the 6-speed I drove a long time ago too, I don't even remember how it felt. I do like manual in M235i....just needs to be a little shorter

BMW was a spontaneous purchase, I got tired of looking for cars that I wanted. Maybe it's a wrong pick.....don't know, after all I did look at Cayman and some of those were same price or cheaper then my 235

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

What would a 228i so equipped cost? Still $10k less than an M2?

No idea over there, but here an M2 is A$112k msrp (U$83k), 228i with everything on it should be around A$75k (U$55k) so around $30k, enough to swap an S65 if you wanted to.

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by 228JB4

M2 was coming sometime, which I definitely plan to trade up for next year.

If by next year you mean 2018 then sure. Car is pretty much sold out for 2017 at this point.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

If by next year you mean 2018 then sure. Car is pretty much sold out for 2017 at this point.

I'm on a list.....11 month wait I'm told.

[doccyber]

I read the article and all I have to say is that to each his/her own. The 228i, M 235i or the M2 are all better than most cars out there....choosing among them is like splitting hairs.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by doccyber

I read the article and all I have to say is that to each his/her own. The 228i, M 235i or the M2 are all better than most cars out there....choosing among them is like splitting hairs.

I agree. If I had to do it over again, I may have looked at a 228i, but the M2 is the car I really wanted. I'm very happy with my M235i, but in a few years or sooner, if they're still making them I'm getting an M2.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by doccyber

The 228i, M 235i or the M2 are all better than most cars out there....

That is impossible, they cannot be better than most cars.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

That is impossible, they cannot be better than most cars.

Exactly! You nailed it!

They are objectively certainly different from most cars and their subjective "better-ness" is up to each person to decide.

BTW, condolences on all the unfortunate situations which have befallen the people in Orlando in recent times.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

BTW, condolences on all the unfortunate situations which have befallen the people in Orlando in recent times.

Much appreciated, there have certainly been better weeks.

[Dylan86]

Not many 6cyl-turbo options out there that are reasonable for DD and the wallet. The 235i fit my bill, with RWD, 6MT, i6 Turbo, Direct Injection, German car features galore

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Not many 6cyl-turbo options out there that are reasonable for DD and the wallet. The 235i fit my bill, with RWD, 6MT, i6 Turbo, Direct Injection, German car features galore

Direct injection was a negative for me. I wanted a car without or hybrid

[2msport]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

In general I am a manual transmission fanatic. My M4, S2000, and 4runner all have MT. Wife has an X1 with the 4 cylinder N20 and the ZF 8 speed. The engine paired with that tranny feels pretty quick. The 228i feels even quicker with the ZF. But with the manual transmission the 228i felt off to me. Felt like the gears were spread too wide. It's maybe just what i'm used to, you might feel different if you have never driven a car with the N20 and ZF.

Forsure. I have driven the N20 ZF auto. I am also a MT 4lifer but when I drove BMWs auto I was blown away. Telling all my car buddies I never thought I'd say it but I would drive that auto as a DD.

I think I miss understood you in that you were saying the auto is better suited for the 228. Certainly a preference thing. The auto is definitely faster/closer spacing (and easier to drive lol) but I've never had any doubts with my MT. What I was really getting at was, how do the 235 MT and 228 MT differ in feel.

On a side note, it's interesting you feel the gears are too wide. My buddy who drives a Mustang liked how "closely spaced they are". I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think it comes down to what you've driven before. And since you have a m4 and s2000 I'm not surprised you'd come to that conclusion. Always good to get a different perspective.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 2msport

On a side note, it's interesting you feel the gears are too wide. My buddy who drives a Mustang liked how "closely spaced they are". I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think it comes down to what you've driven before. And since you have a m4 and s2000 I'm not surprised you'd come to that conclusion. Always good to get a different perspective.

Actually, I would have wished the spacing was wider from 5th to 6th. I would prefer a lower engine speed for long-distance cruising. The ratios show 6th is an overdrive gear, but still seems to be spinning more than needed for a constant 70-75 mph.