[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

This is best summary I've read since; unbiased and detail. I think a lot of people thought that because the dealer mark-ups was high, due to the limited demand at the time, that vehicle's perceived value was somehow greater, making some to believe that the M2 was the Second Coming or something. They obvious never checked eBay prices on the same day a new iPhone is release, to understand how Supply and Demand works in modern day society.

The M2 is 56K, a comparable 240 is 53K; from a company that cost cut at every chance they can get; from slashing the 4 year free maintenance, to not including a $5 "oh sh!t" handles, then eliminating the blue stitching on the knee pads to save like $2 per vehicle, I don't know how much you guys thought BMW was going to give you for that extra $3,000.

M2 is just a 240i turned up a notch and it's going to depreciate as such. Anyone who has their head in the clouds and thinks that owning an M2 is a winning lotto ticket, will eventually come back down to earth when it's time to off load it.

I love the M2 in its currently form (that's why I'm here) and if I had one, it would be a keeper and I wouldn't care about the deprecation rate but I don't see it becoming anything more than another passing M car, just like the ones that came before it...

Cool story bro

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by kevlee23

I'll sell you mine lol white loaded manual, catless intake front mount lowered made a great daily but want to get ready for M2 competition

Thanks, but want Mineral Grey with DCT. GLWS.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

M2 is just a 240i turned up a notch and it's going to depreciate as such. Anyone who has their head in the clouds and thinks that owning an M2 is a winning lotto ticket, will eventually come back down to earth when it's time to off load it.

I love the M2 in its currently form (that's why I'm here) and if I had one, it would be a keeper and I wouldn't care about the deprecation rate but I don't see it becoming anything more than another passing M car, just like the ones that came before it...

I think you need to drive an M2 hard back to back with an M240i... it is not just turned up a notch. I would say it is closer to the M4 than the M240i. The engine and interior are closer to the M240i, but everything else is much closer to the M4. Once the M2 Comp comes out, it will be very close to the M4 and only different in character (and I think it will have the nicer aspects of the character).

But I agree the initial heady days of sort supply are over and it is just another M car... a really nice one (better than some recent iterations) that has gotten many things right. Of course, being "just another M car" is actually a pretty nice place to be!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

The M2 is 56K, a comparable 240 is 53K; from a company that cost cut at every chance they can get; from slashing the 4 year free maintenance, to not including a $5 "oh sh!t" handles, then eliminating the blue stitching on the knee pads to save like $2 per vehicle, I don't know how much you guys thought BMW was going to give you for that extra $3,000.

M2 is just a 240i turned up a notch and it's going to depreciate as such. Anyone who has their head in the clouds and thinks that owning an M2 is a winning lotto ticket, will eventually come back down to earth when it's time to off load it.

Sigh...

The 235/240 is a 2er with the PPK. The M2 is an M3/4 from the belt line down...it's 95% or more the same as its bigger brothers from the performance standpoint...so you get A LOT for your 3K. Wider tires, better brakes, much better suspension and steering, better exhaust note, a fat ass, more aggressive intakes and diffuser, contrast stitching and Alcantara, did I mention the fat ass? Also including a DCT (if you go that route) instead of a ZF transmission, or the 6 MT that was improved from the 1M (no such luck in the 235).

Where it "suffers" is in a few deliberate omissions - the mirrors, the roof, the interior leather, no HUD...but it is undeniably the best buy in the entire BMW lineup right now. I would even argue that, considering how much you DO get with the M2, that the 235/240 is not very good value.

There's no similarity between a 235/240 and an M2, other than the "2" in the name. That's where the similarities end.

PS - the 235 was the least favorite BMW I have ever owned...I will be getting an M2C, so that should tell you something too.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Sigh...

The 235/240 is a 2er with the PPK. The M2 is an M3/4 from the belt line down...it's 95% or more the same as its bigger brothers from the performance standpoint...so you get A LOT for your 3K. Wider tires, better brakes, much better suspension and steering, better exhaust note, a fat ass, more aggressive intakes and diffuser, contrast stitching and Alcantara, did I mention the fat ass? Also including a DCT (if you go that route) instead of a ZF transmission, or the 6 MT that was improved from the 1M (no such luck in the 235).

Where it "suffers" is in a few deliberate omissions - the mirrors, the roof, the interior leather, no HUD...but it is undeniably the best buy in the entire BMW lineup right now. I would even argue that, considering how much you DO get with the M2, that the 235/240 is not very good value.

There's no similarity between a 235/240 and an M2, other than the "2" in the name. That's where the similarities end.

PS - the 235 was the least favorite BMW I have ever owned...I will be getting an M2C, so that should tell you something too.

^Agreed!

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

There's no similarity between a 235/240 and an M2, other than the "2" in the name. That's where the similarities end.

You forgot to mention the engine. The m2 engine is the same engine as the 235’s but with a dme tune and some forged/reinforced bits for longerivity under higher boost. With that being said, the b58 in the 240 is a much better engine with a better turbo and better cooling and a closed deck. Dont get me wrong.. i prefer the m2 for it’s suspension, handling, brakes, exhaust, and wider track but the engine is a regular car engine and the b58 is a much better regular car engine at that. The s55 on the other hand is a real bespoke m engine and i think for this reason alone the s55 m2 should be considered the full m car, the n55 m2 considered the partial m or m light, and the 240 the ‘is’. With the new m2 comp coming with the real m engine, the demand for the n55 is going to drop. It already has. People are getting 3-4k off msrp. It might be that the demand for small performance coupes might be dropping in general though. I dont know how it is everywhere eles but where i am, there are 2 dealers that can get me a july build for the comp at msrp.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

You forgot to mention the engine. The m2 engine is the same engine as the 235’s but with a dme tune and some forged/reinforced bits for longerivity under higher boost. With that being said, the b58 in the 240 is a much better engine with a better turbo and better cooling and a closed deck. Dont get me wrong.. i prefer the m2 for it’s suspension, handling, brakes, exhaust, and wider track but the engine is a regular car engine and the b58 is a much better regular car engine at that. The s55 on the other hand is a real bespoke m engine and i think for this reason alone the s55 m2 should be considered the full m car, the n55 m2 considered the partial m or m light, and the 240 the ‘is’. With the new m2 comp coming with the real m engine, the demand for the n55 is going to drop. It already has. People are getting 3-4k off msrp. It might be that the demand for small performance coupes might be dropping in general though. I dont know how it is everywhere eles but where i am, there are 2 dealers that can get me a july build for the comp at msrp.

Fair enough - but your point helps me make mine even more clear. the M2 is much more than just an engine (as the 1M was before it), and the sum of the parts is worth SO much more than the $3000 MSRP difference would indicate, normal engine be damned. That's all I am trying to say - the M2 is nothing like a trumped up 235/240.

And you can get an even bigger discount on the regular 2er cars. @ invoice or below? Not the case on the M2, even with the S55 coming.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Sigh...

The 235/240 is a 2er with the PPK. The M2 is an M3/4 from the belt line down...it's 95% or more the same as its bigger brothers from the performance standpoint...so you get A LOT for your 3K. Wider tires, better brakes, much better suspension and steering, better exhaust note, a fat ass, more aggressive intakes and diffuser, contrast stitching and Alcantara, did I mention the fat ass? Also including a DCT (if you go that route) instead of a ZF transmission, or the 6 MT that was improved from the 1M (no such luck in the 235).

Where it "suffers" is in a few deliberate omissions - the mirrors, the roof, the interior leather, no HUD...but it is undeniably the best buy in the entire BMW lineup right now. I would even argue that, considering how much you DO get with the M2, that the 235/240 is not very good value.

There's no similarity between a 235/240 and an M2, other than the "2" in the name. That's where the similarities end.

PS - the 235 was the least favorite BMW I have ever owned...I will be getting an M2C, so that should tell you something too.

Truth

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Cool story bro

You get a lot of that 3k, but of course m240s don't usually go for sticker, so there's that.

[Poochie]

I am aware of everything the M2 has over the 235/240, I'm an enthusiast just like you guys and on April 2016, I was refreshing Bimmerpost app everyday trying to get a morsel of detail on the then new M2, sort of what's going on with the M2 Comp.

However, in it's heyday, I remember how popular, expensive and big the E92 M3 was. It was the M car for "real" M folks. But as soon as the F80 was announced, no one really cared for it and price started dropping. It's the natural order of things, just like that new iPhone analogy.

Thanks for everyone's feedback, I honestly wasn't trying to put down the M2, it was just an opinion. Some of you guys have some mouthwatering, purrty cars, regardless of what the future holds.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

I am aware of everything the M2 has over the 235/240, I'm an enthusiast just like you guys and on April 2016, I was refreshing Bimmerpost app everyday trying to get a morsel of detail on the then new M2, sort of what's going on with the M2 Comp.

However, it's heyday, I remember how popular, expensive and big the E92 M3 was. It was M car for "real" M folks. But as soon as the F80 was announced, no one really cared for it and price started dropping. It's the natural order of things, just like that new iPhone analogy.

Thanks for everyone's feedback, I honestly wasn't trying to put down the M2, it was just an opinion. Some of you guys have some mouthwatering, purrty cars, regardless of what the future holds.

Well people are starting to look back at that V8 now with lust in their eyes. Unsure what the N55 M2's fate will be. I suspect it will be a bargain M when both it and the M2 Comp are old news and old cars as people will want the "real" M car instead creating low demand for the N55 M2. People wanting big power and a budget will rather get a used m235 or m240 and tune it. People wanting to spend more will have their eye on the "real" M engine.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by akkando

Well people are starting to look back at that V8 now with lust in their eyes. Unsure what the N55 M2's fate will be. I suspect it will be a bargain M when both it and the M2 Comp are old news and old cars as people will want the "real" M car instead creating low demand for the N55 M2. People wanting big power and a budget will rather get a used m235 or m240 and tune it. People wanting to spend more will have their eye on the "real" M engine.

It's a good point for sure - but I think "newer" cars that are from a previous generation seem to suffer more by looking dated more quickly - you expect a 1990s car to have a dated interior...but the E9X and E82 feel pretty old from inside the car by today's standards, especially from a tech perspective.

So if you do go for an older M car, maybe an earlier generation helps in that regard.

Of course, the S54 and S65 might be worth the price of admission, tech be damned.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

I am aware of everything the M2 has over the 235/240, I'm an enthusiast just like you guys and on April 2016, I was refreshing Bimmerpost app everyday trying to get a morsel of detail on the then new M2, sort of what's going on with the M2 Comp.

However, it's heyday, I remember how popular, expensive and big the E92 M3 was. It was the M car for "real" M folks. But as soon as the F80 was announced, no one really cared for it and price started dropping. It's the natural order of things, just like that new iPhone analogy.

Thanks for everyone's feedback, I honestly wasn't trying to put down the M2, it was just an opinion. Some of you guys have some mouthwatering, purrty cars, regardless of what the future holds.

This has been going on way before the E92/F80 transition. It happens anytime a new M car is released.

The old one doesn't necessarily tank in value either. A pristine E92 2013 M3 with low miles could sell for more than a 2015 F82 with the same miles. As a self-proclaimed enthusiast myself, I know which one I would take!

It's for this reason the (original) M2 may still be a desirable car long after the next (and the next, and next) iteration comes out. It doesn't hurt that the S55 sounds like garbage either.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It's a good point for sure - but I think "newer" cars that are from a previous generation seem to suffer more by looking dated more quickly - you expect a 1990s car to have a dated interior...but the E9X and E82 feel pretty old from inside the car by today's standards, especially from a tech perspective.

So if you do go for an older M car, maybe an earlier generation helps in that regard.

Of course, the S54 and S65 might be worth the price of admission, tech be damned.

People who bought the MY16 M2 might have gotten a bargain considering the price difference between it and whatever the M2 Comp will be sold at, even if the N55 M2 isn't a highly desired car years from now. That will probably make the MY18 a used bargain 5+ years from now when someone wants a fun reliable car on the cheap.

Then there is the exhaust to consider.

Another thing for long term owners is reliability between the N55, B58, and the S55. Reliability isn't sexy but for long term owners it's a big deal. The N55 seems rock solid besides a couple valve carbon cleanups over the long life of the car. The B58 is an unknown. Not sure about the S55 though with my limited research it seems like it's been pretty decent. A MY20 or MY21 M2 might have all the S55 bugs worked if there are any....

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by akkando

The N55 seems rock solid besides a couple valve carbon cleanups over the long life of the car. The B58 is an unknown. Not sure about the S55 though with my limited research it seems like it's been pretty decent. A MY20 or MY21 M2 might have all the S55 bugs worked if there are any....

How certain can we be of this? And under what application? I'm just curious because i'm in a position where I'm deciding if i should put in an order for a July build of the comp or get the n55 version for less now. I wouldn't have even thought about it twice but my heart sank a little after i realized the new grills were going to look so different. I looked a lot into the internet and i found several instances where the n55 is actually failing on the track. The b58 is unknown because not many are tracking it.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

How certain can we be of this? And under what application? I'm just curious because i'm in a position where I'm deciding if i should put in an order for a July build of the comp or get the n55 version for less now. I wouldn't have even thought about it twice but my heart sank a little after i realized the new grills were going to look so different. I looked a lot into the internet and i found several instances where the n55 is actually failing on the track. The b58 is unknown because not many are tracking it.

Certain of what?

Anyway the track times of the M2, M3, and M4 can be seen here on several tracks. The M2 doesn't look like it's always coming in last, though obviously some of these cars are stock, and others are not.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1144972

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

How certain can we be of this? And under what application? I'm just curious because i'm in a position where I'm deciding if i should put in an order for a July build of the comp or get the n55 version for less now. I wouldn't have even thought about it twice but my heart sank a little after i realized the new grills were going to look so different. I looked a lot into the internet and i found several instances where the n55 is actually failing on the track. The b58 is unknown because not many are tracking it.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/pdf/bmw-te...l-training.pdf

Everything you need to know is here..

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by akkando

Certain of what?


https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1144972

certain that the n55 seems to be "rock solid" as i am finding cases of heat soak and even complete engine failures on the track.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

certain that the n55 seems to be "rock solid" as i am finding cases of heat soak and even complete engine failures on the track.

I guess I meant solid from a long ownership sporty car perspective, not sure about as a long ownership track car. Have we seen any M2s blow up on the track? Heat soak yes. People are installing new intercoolers for that.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

You forgot to mention the engine. The m2 engine is the same engine as the 235’s but with a dme tune and some forged/reinforced bits for longerivity under higher boost. With that being said, the b58 in the 240 is a much better engine with a better turbo and better cooling and a closed deck.

I think you mean bigger turbo... not better... bigger comes with its own challenges in getting a smooth power curve. Also, I get a kick out of when people list 'better cooling AND a closed deck' together. It should read 'better cooling, which is needed because of the closed deck'.

Jury is still out on the assessment the b58 is a 'much better engine.' It is an excellent engine... but has little history at high outputs and on the track. Plus the maintenance challenges caused by some of those design decisions still need to be played out. Let's not nominate it for Canton just yet.

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by akkando

I guess I meant solid from a long ownership sporty car perspective, not sure about as a long ownership track car. Have we seen any M2s blow up on the track? Heat soak yes. People are installing new intercoolers for that.

not sure if this was an m2 or m235i

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...351717&page=4\

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

not sure if this was an m2 or m235i

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...351717&page=4\

The current M2 shares the same turbo as a 335i and a electric blow off valve from an 228i. So if tracking is your thing, I would address those parts first. Dinan has an upgraded turbo available now. It has extra cooling for the oil, so as far heat soak, I believe you'll be fine.