[aajami]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

No, it didn't.

So it didn't!

[Mr_Teutonic]

Can someone explain the difference between my 135is DCT and the M-DCT in the M3/M4 ? (and probably the M2) Besides it handling more power...Just curious if anyone knows the technical differences.

[BMWCAT]

Originally Posted by SamS

Fixed.

M3 is for us poor souls that haul around others/kids regularly. Or really don't like the long coupe doors

Right here!! damage done few months ago, I'm very happy with my M3... Its an Amazing car, tight body control with the power from the engine is just cherry on top! Thanks to all the CF weight saving bits. This ain't E92/E87 Era

[iNeedALsd]

i don't understand why people are so defensive of the n55.

an m car should have an engine that can hold up to repeated track abuse. the n55 has major cooling issues and it does not hold up to hard driving. I have experienced this many times.

I don't know what bmw is doing to upgrade the n55 for the m2, but based on past experience, i definitely wouldnt want one in a track car.

[oldmanstyle]

Originally Posted by deleted__h2016bf345c63a4

Honestly, I don't understand how people hate the n54 and love the s55, I would love to know why.

If I'm going to shell out the money for a brand new 2016 M car I'd rather the heart of it not be a non-M motor that was introduced in 2009.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by deleted__h2016bf345c63a4

This s55 dream talk is bothering me. Honestly, I don't understand how people hate the n54 and love the s55, I would love to know why. Do people really think upgrading engine components are the devil? Or even expensive? Or unsafe?(High quality h2o) and by engine components I mean a sub $500 tune for m4 stock figures, a $900 turbo for 430ish whp.

If you think a detuned s55 is going to solve your problems and is a deal breaker, I think the M2 might not be for you. I wish I could be viewing more chassis component threads vs carbon roofs, hood bulge and options threads.

Don't get me wrong, the s55 is great and has insane potential, which has been proven. But the n55 has the same relative potential, unless we are talking about over 600whp. If the n55 is a deal breaker then I'll assume a $2400 turbo that could give you close to 600whp, isn't in your sights. (When they offer back-end flash options)

It has everything to do with the character of the motor. How does it rev? How responsive is it at various RPM ranges? How does it hold power in the upper RPM range?

If these things don't matter to you, fine, but you can't blame someone else for caring.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by PodDoc

Interesting to see that it will have the same 19" wheels as the M3/4. They will probably have 18" wheels as std for the us market.

1M and the e90zcp had the same 19s and rear suspension and rear diff.

M2 will likely have the f80 19s and also the rear suspension including subframe and diff

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by iNeedALsd

i don't understand why people are so defensive of the n55.

an m car should have an engine that can hold up to repeated track abuse. the n55 has major cooling issues and it does not hold up to hard driving. I have experienced this many times.

I don't know what bmw is doing to upgrade the n55 for the m2, but based on past experience, i definitely wouldnt want one in a track car.

BMW M doesn't put out parts that don't work.
They usually redesign and improve critical components.



The N54 had fuel pump issues.

N54 fuel pumps in the 1M were fine.


The e82 135 had limp mode issues.
The 1M did not.


Whatever issues N55 has they likely will be resolved on the N55T if it's in an M car.


Based on past experiences, if it's a motor in an M car, you will probably want it.

Tell me which M motors are bad ?

[iNeedALsd]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW M doesn't put out parts that don't work.
They usually redesign and improve critical components.



The N54 had fuel pump issues.

N54 fuel pumps in the 1M were fine.


The e82 135 had limp mode issues.
The 1M did not.


Whatever issues N55 has they likely will be resolved on the N55T if it's in an M car.


Based on past experiences, if it's a motor in an M car, you will probably want it.

Tell me which M motors are bad ?

This is true, I was going to say in my post that I haven't heard of any of the same issues on the 1m. I just have a sour taste from my expensive journey to get rid of the dreaded limp mode.

Like i said i dont know what they have planned as far as upgrades but I must concede that you're right. All of the m cars have been pretty great so far. I'm sure bmw knows how to make the engine reliable and special at the limit.

[F85FTW]

Originally Posted by iNeedALsd

i don't understand why people are so defensive of the n55.

an m car should have an engine that can hold up to repeated track abuse. the n55 has major cooling issues and it does not hold up to hard driving. I have experienced this many times.

I don't know what bmw is doing to upgrade the n55 for the m2, but based on past experience, i definitely wouldnt want one in a track car.

Ever think that the over heating was due to poor radiator/oil coolers and ducting of air due to it being designed on a lower class daily driver model. Im sure M put this car through hell and back and saw what was needed to keep it going on the track. If its overheating they probably gave it a bigger radiator with stronger water pump, an over sized oil cooler with possibly an auxiliary cooler that kicks on at a certain temp range to run in parallel with the main cooler, and design the ducting of air into these coolers and the engine to get the most clean high pressure air.

[fsfikke]

Originally Posted by fuddman

I think your title is misleading people.
Specifically, this part: "Production starts for February 2016"
By placing that wording in the title of the thread, you're floating the notion you have some inside information and you know for a fact that M2 production starts in February. When all you may know is the specific car you ordered (in Europe) will be produced in February.
Your title needs to be more factually correct or at least labeled as a guess.

Now now..
It's at least a good bit of information, and it all depends on what you define as starting production. They have been producing a couple of M2's each month starting from Feb this year.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I also have heard a rumor that SOP will be in the early Spring(April) not Nov 2015. But so far I only ONE source that I know has said this. I have not been able to confirm the push back of SOP by any of my "other" sources. I suspect the SOP M2 production will be after the New Year. IF it was really to start in Nov of this year... we would be seeing more & more cars with close to no camo. That's not the case.

The numbers will start to ramp up in November, from Jan '16 there will be a couple of hundred M2's rolling off the line each month.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by fsfikke

Now now..
It's at least a good bit of information, and it all depends on what you define as starting production. They have been producing a couple of M2's each month starting from Feb this year.

The numbers will start to ramp up in November, from Jan '16 there will be a couple of hundred M2's rolling off the line each month.

I think m4 gts will get some time and then the m2 .... Rollout will happen but still yet a little while.


I went to Leipzig in November of 2010 prior to the 1M rollout. That day we toured the factory and drove the 3 mules they had present, we maybe saw a total of 12 cars anywhere in the factory and on the line and at that time there was a max delivery rate of 730 odd cars per day.

Dackel has informed me the plant has expanded... A couple of hundred rolling off the floor a month is only 2400 cars a year for the world !

They would need to make more than 500 a month to equal the number of 1Ms produced which was 6000... The 1M production probably was over longer than 12 months of course




A wise man one said....



"You will love it..... But you will have to wait for it! "

[fsfikke]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I think m4 gts will get some time and then the m2 .... Rollout will happen but still yet a little while.


I went to Leipzig in November of 2010 prior to the 1M rollout. That day we toured the factory and drove the 3 mules they had present, we maybe saw a total of 12 cars anywhere in the factory and on the line and at that time there was a max delivery rate of 730 odd cars per day.

Dackel has informed me the plant has expanded... A couple of hundred rolling off the floor a month is only 2400 cars a year for the world !

Don't take the couple too literally, it'll be about double that amount.

Don't know the specific numbers for the GTS though.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Tell me which M motors are bad ?

The S65.

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by Mr_Teutonic

Can someone explain the difference between my 135is DCT and the M-DCT in the M3/M4 ? (and probably the M2) Besides it handling more power...Just curious if anyone knows the technical differences.

In our DCTs we have basically 3 modes for the transmission - Normal (Drive), Sport, and Manual.

M-DCT allow much more control over the shifting characteristics with its drivelogic. You have D1 through D5, S6, and manual.

Additionally, the M-DCTs that I have driven don't creep forward with your foot off the brake. M-DCT will not upshift in manual mode without user-input. There are some other differences I believe, but I cant remember them right now.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by deleted__h2016bf345c63a4

This s55 dream talk is bothering me. Honestly, I don't understand how people hate the n54 and love the s55, I would love to know why. Do people really think upgrading engine components are the devil? Or even expensive? Or unsafe?(High quality h2o) and by engine components I mean a sub $500 tune for m4 stock figures, a $900 turbo for 430ish whp.

If you think a detuned s55 is going to solve your problems and is a deal breaker, I think the M2 might not be for you. I wish I could be viewing more chassis component threads vs carbon roofs, hood bulge and options threads.

Don't get me wrong, the s55 is great and has insane potential, which has been proven. But the n55 has the same relative potential, unless we are talking about over 600whp. If the n55 is a deal breaker then I'll assume a $2400 turbo that could give you close to 600whp, isn't in your sights. (When they offer back-end flash options)

The N55 doesn't have the same potential. This is why BMW developed a new, more advanced engine. Compare the dyno's of both engines. The S55 is more linear and makes more power up top. This is my point and understand if people don't agree. But, I personally want to get the newest technology if I'm buying a new M car. I owned (2) 135i's so that's why the M2 was intriguing for me. My lease is up in May so I'll have some decisions to make. Still not bad to have a choice between keeping my E92 or getting a M2 or M4!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

The S65.

I meant Bad as in awful... not Bad as in badass...

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

In our DCTs we have basically 3 modes for the transmission - Normal (Drive), Sport, and Manual.

M-DCT allow much more control over the shifting characteristics with its drivelogic. You have D1 through D5, S6, and manual.

Additionally, the M-DCTs that I have driven don't creep forward with your foot off the brake. M-DCT will not upshift in manual mode without user-input. There are some other differences I believe, but I cant remember them right now.

Great list. I would point out exactly the same.

Drivelogic is the real differentiator. Without Drivelogic, I don't think I could own a DCT car.

[SomberArtist]

Welp, I guess I'm officially out now.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by deleted__h2016bf345c63a4

It matters to me too. I agree with many complaints. It's very responsive at various RPM ranges. Top end? The turbo is A problem. We need something that can actually pull to 7500. The s55 isn't particularly happy at that level. It still falls off. Cooling? The s55 has cooling issues. The n55's air to air is just undersized. I'm telling you the n55 would be as "special" or more special than the s55 with a couple things. Water to Air, a larger compressor and some serious oil cooling. That's it. If anything it would be happier up top compared to the s55. Well and a lighter flywheel assembly.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I don't care what designation they put on the motor. The letters and numbers don't matter to me. IMO, the S55 is a very powerful motor, but in terms of character, I'm not particularly impressed. So I agree with you, in part. It's not like the S55 is some kind of high bar by which we should measure the world.

Plenty of people are going to get angry at me for that, but it's my opinion. There is space in my mind for conflicting views. I appreciate the S55 for what it is, but I'm not willing to compromise further. If there's any wishful thinking going on, it's that the N55 is able to rise to the level expected of a proper sports car motor with a few bolt on changes.

I'd add that many of the things you listed don't enhance the character of the motor. They're basic requirements for a sports car engine. It's like saying, "I'd like a chair with four legs, but three will still do the job." Technically, a correct statement, but what the hell?! Is that the bar we're setting for BMW?

Originally Posted by deleted__h2016bf345c63a4

If anything it would be happier up top compared to the s55.

I had to extract this one. If you actually believe this, I'm not sure what to tell you. The N55B30T0 is going to be something just north of an N55 with a PPK. Care to venture a guess where PPK delivers the most power? Right in the mid-range. Know what that means? A cliff of a torque curve that makes the S55's torque curve look like pancake.

IMO, the only possibility of the N55B30T0 delivering a passable experience (from my perspective) will require the addition of a second turbo, and I have serious doubts about that happening. It wouldn't be completely unprecedented. I did some more research the other day, and there is some evidence that BMW is willing to change turbocharger configuration in order to increase performance. The N57D30T0 received twin-turbos where the N57D30T0 used a single turbo. It is notable that this is a diesel engine, however. I couldn't find a petrol version where the turbo configuration changed.

[JMSpace144]

I find these options lackluster and disappointing....just a repackage of the same crap.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I meant Bad as in awful... not Bad as in badass...

I know, I was referring to all of the owner's who experienced rod bearing failures on their S65's.