[bim2er]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Agree.. no question that the M2 will be faster around a track than the 1M. That's a given based on improvements in suspension geometry, and tire tech... However.. Faster definitely does not equal better... unless of course one is competing for lap times or trophies. An E36 is WAY faster than an E30 M3. I owned an E30 M3 for 17 years and watched the E36 and E46 come out..... and while both were faster, and offered greater performance limits.. the E30 M3 was and is *absolutely* a more involving drive and more fun whether on a country road or track. Each time I drove an E36 I felt like it understeered and pushed... The E46 more of the same.. but with more power to get the rear around a bit better. The E36 and E46 of course excel at being " GT" type cars in that they have plenty of torque and power for daily driving.....

I am sure the M2 will be a great all around daily driver and probably smoother in every driving. I expect it to produce quicker lap times...
What I am curious about is will it produce more smiles ?

I am optimistic. Augusto Farfus sure was smiling and very complimentary at Salzburgring, but, then again, he has motivation from his employer.

[SYT_Shadow]

The M2 looks beautiful, but I am also disappointed in its weight.

The European weight numbers are exactly the same between the M2 and the M4. This is particularly sad because the M4 is the size of a bus.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

An Astro van weighs less than a Model S, so I guess you would take the van out for a spin over the Tesla. Good choice!

What about m5 or m6 or ctsv or e63 or hell even the new 7 series lol.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

For the price & comfort level I think the weight is reasonable. It's not competition track car, maybe an occasional HPDE with daily driving duties. At the end of the day skill will easily overcome a few hundred pounds of extra weight when you are on track.

I've been passed by heavier cars with less power many times.

Get moving then!!

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

What about m5 or m6 or ctsv or e63 or hell even the new 7 series lol.

What about them? My point was weight doesn't indicate how well the car will drive. So to say this new car is 200 lbs more than the last one doesn't mean the last one will drive better just on account of it being lighter. I would rather than a Model S around an exit ramp at speed than an Astro van that weighs a lot less. Whether you like the Model S is irrelevant, no one cares your opinion in regards to the cars in my example.

[Mavus]

This is a lux car as configured currently. I would bet the lighter 18" wheels, lighter seats (each leather powrd seat in e90 is 65lbs) and Li battery would delete 120lbs.

What adds significant weight is wiring for all sensors and gadgets in addition to materials throughout. I am hoping they release lighter car even at a premium.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

This is a lux car as configured currently. I would bet the lighter 18" wheels, lighter seats (each leather powrd seat in e90 is 65lbs) and Li battery would delete 120lbs.

What adds significant weight is wiring for all sensors and gadgets in addition to materials throughout. I am hoping they release lighter car even at a premium.

Carbon fiber core in the new 7 will hopefully propagate down to the next generation 2 series, until then the items you outlined could be leveraged for a new CSL model

[W///]

Originally Posted by Bemo

Carbon fiber core in the new 7 will hopefully propagate down to the next generation 2 series, until then the items you outlined could be leveraged for a new CSL model

No doubt, but by then, there's a good chance that the manual transmissions will be extinct and the M2 will be Xdrive only.

And that, would be the end of the road for me.

You order an F80 yet?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

What about them? My point was weight doesn't indicate how well the car will drive. So to say this new car is 200 lbs more than the last one doesn't mean the last one will drive better just on account of it being lighter. I would rather than a Model S around an exit ramp at speed than an Astro van that weighs a lot less. Whether you like the Model S is irrelevant, no one cares your opinion in regards to the cars in my example.

Weight does matter. Your comment on the tesla being a great handling car doesn't even make sense. It handles like a pig.

There are cars in its class (or the cars they think they can compete against - which is also a joke) outhandle is my point.

I have no concerns on the handling on the m2 but to use tesla as a reference is just LOL.

[M3 Number 86]

What is the official weight?

Tldr

Is it about 3300? I think realistically you can knock out 100-200 pounds off easy no?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Weight does matter. Your comment on the tesla being a great handling car doesn't even make sense. It handles like a pig.

There are cars in its class (or the cars they think they can compete against - which is also a joke) outhandle is my point.

I have no concerns on the handling on the m2 but to use tesla as a reference is just LOL.

Sorry that you're incapable of understanding the point I was making. It's ok... God did not create us all equally.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by W///

No doubt, but by then, there's a good chance that the manual transmissions will be extinct and the M2 will be Xdrive only.

And that, would be the end of the road for me.

You order an F80 yet?

I thought we were going to get Fire Orange M3s together?

Frankly speaking, I'm not thrilled with the electric steering, huge chassis, fart can exhaust, or the bull nose with that atrocious hood line. About the only thing that could sway me is an aggressive color such as FO

The M2 is pork and there aren't reasonably priced E92 Lime Rock's to be had.

I'm staying put until next summer so we'll see.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The M2 looks beautiful, but I am also disappointed in its weight.

The European weight numbers are exactly the same between the M2 and the M4. This is particularly sad because the M4 is the size of a bus.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

What is the official weight?

Tldr

Is it about 3300? I think realistically you can knock out 100-200 pounds off easy no?

The weight changes... according to what country or municipality you live in

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bemo

I thought we were going to get Fire Orange M3s together?

Frankly speaking, I'm not thrilled with the electric steering, huge chassis, fart can exhaust, or the bull nose with that atrocious hood line. About the only thing that could sway me is an aggressive color such as FO

The M2 is pork and there aren't reasonably priced E92 Lime Rock's to be had.

I'm staying put until next summer so we'll see.

So.. you're saying that the M2 is the " other" white meat? Guess we need Halal vehicles now.. ?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Sorry that you're incapable of understanding the point I was making. It's ok... God did not create us all equally.

Your point is that weight is not indicative of a cars handling properties.

My point is that if you are using a tesla as your point it's not valid.

Maybe God didn't make us equal - I must be a superior driver/being

I'm not trying to argue with you or saying I am better than you. I'm just stating that your point doesn't make sense to me and probably others.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The weight changes... according to what country or municipality you live in

Ok where should I take delivery? LA OC or Texas? Definitely not Texas prob a bit more heavy set there. Shit prob need a euro version since the US is so porky overall

[Spook410]

I was initially disappointed at the weight. However, as those with a better grasp of automotive engineering than I have pointed out, this is a very expensive area to mitigate. So, putting naive visions aside, there were no surprises.

The weight won't keep it from being a fine daily driver. For long trips it will feel solid. Mountain roads will be a different kind of fun.. less finesse, more power. But fun nonetheless. I wasn't looking for a Miata and I didn't think it would be a more practical Cayman S. And I do want practical. And safe. It's not perfect but it's better than anything else on my list.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Your point is that weight is not indicative of a cars handling properties.

My point is that if you are using a tesla as your point it's not valid.

Maybe God didn't make us equal - I must be a superior driver/being

I'm not trying to argue with you or saying I am better than you. I'm just stating that your point doesn't make sense to me and probably others.

I'm not sure how I can explain it any simpler. And to be fair, I said the DISCUSSION regarding weight is irrelevant at this point. I'll try again to help you understand - look at the image below.

According to you, a stripper Astro van from 2005 outhandles a new M5 and a Model S. Throw some CF bits on that bad boy and you have yourself a hell of a ride. Look at that curb weight!

It's idiotic. Weight isn't going to tell you how a car feels on the road. A Bugatti Veyron weighs about the same as that stripper Astro van. I guess they both lap the 'Ring at about the same time and provide the same level of excitement doing it.

This discussion of curb weight is important why exactly? No one has driven the car to know whether the weight is a problem. Could it have been made lighter? Yes... the M4 was made to be lightweight and they still managed to make a GTS 180lbs lighter. But the M2 is supposed to be cheap and the M4 GTS anything but... so this discussion is pointless since we don't know whether weight is a detriment to this vehicle, and from a cost perspective lower weight isn't achievable, unfortunately.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

So.. you're saying that the M2 is the " other" white meat? Guess we need Halal vehicles now.. ?

How about some "veggie" Cayman-like weight for the M2?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by W///

As I mentioned in another thread, I think M3 Adjuster was on to something when he said the M2 should have been a 4 pot. While that would not have lowered the price because then you'd need a bespoke 4 pot, at least they wouldn't have had to limit it as much.
Car would have been probably 3250 lbs, and been a completely different animal than the M3/4.

As I commented in the past, it wouldn't surprise me if the M2 CSL turns out to be a track-purposed bare-boned 4-banger with CF/CFRP goodies and no back seats.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I'm not sure how I can explain it any simpler. And to be fair, I said the DISCUSSION regarding weight is irrelevant at this point. I'll try again to help you understand - look at the image below.

According to you, a stripper Astro van from 2005 outhandles a new M5 and a Model S. Throw some CF bits on that bad boy and you have yourself a hell of a ride. Look at that curb weight!

It's idiotic. Weight isn't going to tell you how a car feels on the road. A Bugatti Veyron weighs about the same as that stripper Astro van. I guess they both lap the 'Ring at about the same time and provide the same level of excitement doing it.

This discussion of curb weight is important why exactly? No one has driven the car to know whether the weight is a problem. Could it have been made lighter? Yes... the M4 was made to be lightweight and they still managed to make a GTS 180lbs lighter. But the M2 is supposed to be cheap and the M4 GTS anything but... so this discussion is pointless since we don't know whether weight is a detriment to this vehicle, and from a cost perspective lower weight isn't achievable, unfortunately.

Would you rather have a 3,800lb M5 or a 4,500lb M5? I understand that cars can hide weight well, but lighter cars have a much better chance of being "fun" to drive. This may sound nuts, but when I think of a Veyron I don't think of fun in the curves or terms like "tossable" I have never once in my life desired a Veyron actually. Which is fortunate for me.