12-24-2016, 12:36 PM | #23 |
enthusiasm > practicality
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It's the same flat 4 architecture as a WRX. This looks to be the only flaw with the 718 but damn, it's a big one.
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12-25-2016, 01:30 PM | #24 |
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Interesting, quite a different conclusion on this video.
I have only driven the Cayman S, previous gen with 6 cyl. It was good, but I think I'm having more fun with the M2 (it's been years ago, so I don't remember much of the Cayman S) I wonder, how much are these videos and reviews influenced by the brands paying the journalists... |
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12-25-2016, 07:58 PM | #25 | |
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12-26-2016, 02:17 PM | #26 | ||
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The cayman 718 S is significantly faster than the M2, given the much lower weight. With PDK, car and driver did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds vs 4.0 in the M2 with DCT. Similarly faster in the quarter mile. The cayman s tested must have had the base suspension. With the sports suspension there would be no comparison in handling with the m2. The cayman with sports PASM has a 1.04g cornering limit vs 0.99 in the M2. And even in the video the cayman was faster around the track. Steering feel in the cayman with sports suspension is exceptional. That said, sound is indeed an issue with the new four cylinder Porsche engines. Compared to the intoxicating wail of the previous 6-cylinder caymans it's night and day. The M2 in contrast sounds pretty good. Much better than the M4 which sounds like a lawnmower. Given it's solid performance, big price difference and 6 vs 4 cylinders I agree the M2 is a great deal.
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12-26-2016, 02:50 PM | #27 | |||
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Since the M2 doesn't have the available " M performance suspension " then that means comparing it with a Cayman that also has base suspension is indeed comparing apples to apples right ?? |
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12-26-2016, 03:18 PM | #28 |
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The Porsche options list is just insane. The Cayman 'compared' to the M2 here was optioned up significantly. The configuration was not posted by probably with PASM suspension with Torque Vectoring in addition to the ceramic brakes. Its like comparing the (non R) Mustang GT350 with a Corvette Z06. It's just optioned up a bit, ah?
So what really is being compared here? If BMW wanted to they could option up this model M2 also with Ceramic Brakes and a Sportier Suspension, in addition to the M-exhaust and maybe a few more ponies. And based on what I have read here, there are plenty of buyers who would have paid an extra $20 grand for those mods, Hell people are doing to aftermarket are'nt they? Then tell me which car, the M2 or the Cayman would be the winner? M2 body with the M3 engine, ceramic brakes and suspension? They would sell everyone they made! No questions asked. When you max out a Porsche with the available options, it gets to be a very, very, very nice car with lots of bells and whistles. Can you option up the Cayman with a rear seat that can hold an adult? Maybe they can adapt BMW's fake exhaust sound stereo to fix that pesky problem with the 4 cylinder sound. They are both great cars, but with very different utility. Mike
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12-26-2016, 05:15 PM | #29 |
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I believe the point of the review is not just laptimes but "fun factor" and even a race car driver preferred the M2 over the Cayman S. If you add the pricing difference, there is just no contest. Nowadays people are obsessed with numbers and only judge a car by them. But one forgets that real life is not just about them. That's why some will prefer a manual car even if it's slower than a comparable dual clutch or automatic one. Or people will but a vintage instead of a new car because they offer a more "pure" driving experience. In the end, sometimes driving pleasure is better than the ego satisfaction provided by numbers...
By the way, a magazine obsessed by numbers such as Sport Auto Germany gave the win to the M2 as well: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1333702
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Last edited by Paul-Bracq-BMW; 12-26-2016 at 05:30 PM.. |
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12-27-2016, 08:07 AM | #30 |
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Sure buddies, everyone buys whatever they can afford. Just speaking how the M2 is 20k cheaper than a similarly equipped Cayman sends the affordability message. If one can't afford Porsche then obviously drives an BMW.
Just bitching about the back seats means that you can not afford a 2 seater, simple as that. Fact is, the Cayman S is faster than M2 on every measurable way. Actually as fast, if not faster, than an M4. M2 is a great car, don't get me wrong.
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12-27-2016, 08:12 AM | #31 | |
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The BMW won, but the Porsche is faster... |
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12-27-2016, 08:14 AM | #32 | |
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12-27-2016, 08:15 AM | #33 | |
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You failed in your attempt.
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12-27-2016, 08:20 AM | #34 |
enthusiasm > practicality
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Such a narrow minded statement. I can afford a 718S like many M2 owners. I was a c*unt hair away from ordering an M3 ZCP but chose the cheaper M2 because of a myriad of reasons, first and foremost the fun-factor associated with it that has been discussed endlessly.
Per your thinking, one would obviously buy a Camaro SS because they can't afford a 440i.
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12-27-2016, 09:12 PM | #35 | |
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For those that say these cars can't be cross shopped, in Canada a base Cayman is $62g and an S is $75g. An M2 is $63g and with M performance exhaust and sunroof approaches $70g. Can these cars be cross shopped? You better believe it. It all comes down to how well equipped a car you want and matters of practicality in addition to which personality you prefer in a car. Is the Cayman a fantastic car that puts up slightly better numbers? Yup. Is that the only criteria? No way. The other criteria I mentioned are far more important to me than tenths in a 0-60 time. The M2 is an excellent performer, fun to drive, very well equipped, and practical as a daily driver for my lifestyle that requires a trunk and back seats. As for personality I prefer a front engine configuration to a mid engine, and prefer the higher stance of the M2 for daily ingress/egress. Love the Cayman, but I love the M2 more. Done deal for me. Has nothing to do with what I can "afford". |
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12-27-2016, 11:30 PM | #36 | |
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I somewhat recently had a GT4, which I sold since my wife and I moved to downtown Philly. It was becoming difficult to enjoy the car living in the city. I had to navigate my underground parking garage's ramp soooo slowly as one example. We are now in the process of moving to the suburbs and I am considering a new car again: M2, 718S, M3, M4, TTRS, Corvette GS as the possibilities. The M2 is the car I am most likely getting and also the lowest in cost of the bunch obviously. I just can't see myself spending the extra tens of thousands on the M3/M4 over the M2. The F80/82 are great cars (except the shit exhaust sound and the M4 being too large), but I'm pretty sure they won't provide the extra smiles to compensate for the higher price. The 718S sounds...meh. And does not (to me) look as good as the 981 it replaced. I was at the Porsche dealer recently and the new turbo 4 just sounds... hollow. Especially after hearing the sound of the GT4 for about half a year. The 718 is a handsome car, but it is now subject to this universal design language that many car companies are taking. The front just looks plain boring now. The bean counters have taken hold of Porsche and we have seen the last great Cayman/Boxster in the previous 981...performance be damned. I'm not paying $80K for any 4 cylinder turbo car. The 718 chassis is still the best in the business, but Porsche is really stretching it by using their brand name to charge that much for a 4 cylinder which is still less horsepower than an M2. The TTRS is possibly still in the running, but it is too far out for the American market. However, I am still interested in its wonderful 5 cyl, 400 hp engine just enough to keep a close eye...and having Quattro for east coast weather is appealing. My only issue is Audi's hesitance to differentiate the RS model from the S model. There are a few changes, but Audi really needs to take a cue from BMW and flare out those rear fenders...otherwise the TTRS essentially looks like a TTS with a rear spoiler. It is something different in my eyes, and I am intrigued. I just wish Audi was intrigued in bringing their cars to the US a little quicker. The Corvette Grand Sport will pretty much obliterate everything else on this list performance wise and is a serious contender for me, but I'm not 100% sold on its overly aggressive styling and am still more interested in German styling and quality. It would also be the worst daily driver of the bunch, which is an important consideration for me right now. Still... a killer deal on a GS would entice me just enough. So at the end of the day, the least expensive car is the most likely one for me, but not because I couldn't afford the higher priced models, but because I don't want to. This is a big reason why the M2 is such a hot car right now, it offers a lot of what enthusiasts want at a very reasonable price. Good engine, good looks, good handling, good sound, good size, good practicality, and the choice of a manual.. all for a good price. Above all...people say it is really fun to drive. Will the M2 feel like a GT4 on the road or track... of course not. But right now I'm not looking for something so hardcore, just a car that will keep me smiling on my daily commutes and weekends. |
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12-28-2016, 11:27 AM | #37 | |
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Wanted to test drive the M2 but dealer said no test drives for M2 which was much different from salesman at Porsche dealer. As I walked in he asked me if had test driven then new Caymans S and when I said not yet he said what are you waiting for? I will get the keys ? |
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12-28-2016, 11:29 AM | #38 | ||
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12-28-2016, 11:29 AM | #39 | ||
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12-28-2016, 07:10 PM | #40 | |
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Although I didn't get a manual GT4 for straight line, quarter mile speeds...same for the manual M2 I'm leaning towards. But I do have a lot of respect for what the F80/82 can do, and would take the ZCP over a C63S (for example) in a heartbeat. |
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01-03-2017, 02:15 AM | #41 | |
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This is not related only to having the money for a higher end car. For that matter, my current position would allow me to stretch for a Lambo or a Ferrari, would I be happy with one of them? Course not, I would feel like I am paying too much for something that I could get for a fraction of the price with a Cayman for instance, or M2, plus that I would need some daily drives as well. Should I be a millionaire, would I care about fractionally expensive Cayman or M2? Of course not, I would happily drive around in my Lambo/Ferrari/Veyron plus a bunch of higher-end daily drivers as well and couldn't care less about M2 and Caymans The conclusion is that I can't afford a Ferrari, although I have the means to stretch to it.
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01-16-2017, 03:45 AM | #42 |
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01-16-2017, 03:49 AM | #43 |
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The M3 and M4 are the same size. Don't let the 4 fool you. It just means 3-series coupe.
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