[camilowsky]

Originally Posted by pz619

Probably a better question for the 3 series forum. Different motor on the M2C so it won’t be applicable to your car.

Fine, I agree. Since I am new to this... dinan is showing stock whp as 311, carbah n as 344. But looking at before and after tune hp/tq gains are 50/63 for dinan and 42/44 for Carbahn. Can I safely assume that even though numbers are different on different dynos, can I safely compare hp/tq gains that way? Carbahn is stating much higher end crank numbers than Dinan, by 61hp... which for me it doesnt make sense.

[Inuyasha]

Funny how the Carbahn and Dinan tune share the same creator/developer. It’s the same person no?
Probably, just a slight tweak between the 2 tunes. I haven’t looked at the dyno graphs but i believe the Carbahn had less peak hp? Are the power curves similar?

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Inuyasha

Funny how the Carbahn and Dinan tune share the same creator/developer. It’s the same person no?
Probably, just a slight tweak between the 2 tunes. I haven’t looked at the dyno graphs but i believe the Carbahn had less peak hp? Are the power curves similar?

Not really. Steve Dinan sold Dinan 6 years ago, before the Dinan’s flash tunes for the S55 were a thing. He probably didn’t have any involvement in Dinan’s current line up. Carbahn makes 549 hp on 93 versus 538 hp on 93 for the Dinan. Dinan is saying to get that power, you need to have their heat exchanger otherwise it’ll make less power, but doesn’t really say how much less.

Biggest difference appears to be heat exchanger needed on the Dinan map and warranty being available on Carbahn. Dinan doesn’t appear to warranty their stage one map.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by pz619

Dinan doesn’t appear to warranty their stage one map.

They do.

https://www.dinancars.com/dinan-warranty/

[pawelczyk7]

Dinan warranty is applicable to the Dinan + and Dinan + HE but not the stage 1. i called and verified as i wanted the warranty version.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

They do.

https://www.dinancars.com/dinan-warranty/

They do not
It’s also on their website when you click on the stage 1 tune under the warranty section.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=10

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by pawelczyk7

Dinan warranty is applicable to the Dinan + and Dinan + HE but not the stage 1. i called and verified as i wanted the warranty version.

Originally Posted by pz619

They do not
It’s also on their website when you click on the stage 1 tune under the warranty section.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=10

They do. As pawelczyk7 noted the warranty applies to Dinan+ and Dinan+HE variants fo the tune. Just not the stage 1 variant. Effectively they are IDENTICAL tunes but the Dinan+ variants carry the traditional Dinan factory matching warranty but are limited to 91/93 octanes whereas stage 1 has mappings for race gas and E85 as well.

[pawelczyk7]

i have the Dinan + and think its great as car feels stock and smooth but just MORE when you get on it especially when you start to climb in the revs which is noticeable. What was missing when stock so this wakes up the car perfectly.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

They do. As pawelczyk7 noted the warranty applies to Dinan+ and Dinan+HE variants fo the tune. Just not the stage 1 variant. Effectively they are IDENTICAL tunes but the Dinan+ variants carry the traditional Dinan factory matching warranty but are limited to 91/93 octanes whereas stage 1 has mappings for race gas and E85 as well.

Why won't you warranty the higher octane maps too?

Also, have you gotten any new 1/4 mile times yet (or from customers)? Thanks I'm advance!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by camilowsky

Does anyone has recommendstions. Read a little bit of this thread, and I myself, want to get a tune. Torn apart between Dinan + and Carbahn that both have a warranty. I have an M340i. Which of these guarantee more hp/tq? Can’t really tell from their dyno graphs.

It's not just about which has the most power, it's also about the way they deliver the power. One could for example make more power and torque in the mid range, but then less power in the high rpm. Is that what you want?

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by ptper

Why won't you warranty the higher octane maps too?

Simply for liability reasons. We can't gaurantee someone will not run an E85 map with 91 octane and grenade their engine that we would then be liable for.

Originally Posted by ptper

Also, have you gotten any new 1/4 mile times yet (or from customers)? Thanks I'm advance!

Do not. Have not seen anything from any customers personally and our test M3 has been in a constant state of "modification" for awhile. As far as I am aware it has not made it to any track since pre-pandemic. Its one of our callibrators personal cars that he is transforming into what may as well be a full blown race car. Even if it did get to a track at this point though I'm pretty sure its so well outside the base Dinan tune (and hardware modifications) it wouldn't be representable.

[pawelczyk7]

i have been in tuned cars which just don't work with how they deliver the power as Akkando stated earlier. A proper tried and true Flash tune just works and hope all the folks who have their DME locked get the resolution soon as nothing better than a stock feel with just more when you need it.

[ptper]

FYI, received the following email update from CarBahn:

For the 2021 model year, BMW has modified its computer system to make it more difficult for aftermarket tuners to interact with the car. The team at CarBahn Autoworks has been working around the clock to interact with the 2021 models. We have recently acquired a new tool system that will make it easier for us to tune the 2021 models, but as of right now, we are unsure of when that will be. Once we have managed to interact with the vehicles, the software will come shortly after. The team is also looking into other solutions of tuning, such as performance ECU, to work on the 2021 platform.

[S2000_Europe]

Originally Posted by S2000_Europe

it is day and night.

I have not drive many miles since the tune, but as a reference, where I reached 100 mph stock know I am making 115 mph

it is another car, I do not see the need for more power, and I am coming from a Camaro ZL1....

Requoting myself...

I have made more pulls in the same place, It do not want to show where is in a map for obvious reasons but it is a straight of 100 meters long then a wide bend (3 lanes wide) uphill continued by a 300 meters straight uphill. The inclination is high (10%).

You need to be very progressive with the pedal or the car will fight for traction until 4th gear while in the bend. The next time I will go with 255/275, or wider if the wheels permitted it with Goodyear Supercar3

[Inuyasha]

sounds like fun

[schnell1982]

Originally Posted by Inuyasha

Funny how the Carbahn and Dinan tune share the same creator/developer. It’s the same person no?
Probably, just a slight tweak between the 2 tunes. I haven’t looked at the dyno graphs but i believe the Carbahn had less peak hp? Are the power curves similar?

Dinan and Carbahn are not the same company and do not share the same software engineers

[MyM2See]

is Carbrahn stage 1 tune warranty void if you have catless DPs? i sent them a message but never heard back

[Inuyasha]

Originally Posted by schnell1982

Dinan and Carbahn are not the same company and do not share the same software engineers

Got it. I need to do more research. I’m leaning towards Carbahn cause I think its a less aggressive tune with stock like power delivery characteristics.

[Inuyasha]

Originally Posted by pz619

Not really. Steve Dinan sold Dinan 6 years ago, before the Dinan’s flash tunes for the S55 were a thing. He probably didn’t have any involvement in Dinan’s current line up. Carbahn makes 549 hp on 93 versus 538 hp on 93 for the Dinan. Dinan is saying to get that power, you need to have their heat exchanger otherwise it’ll make less power, but doesn’t really say how much less.

Biggest difference appears to be heat exchanger needed on the Dinan map and warranty being available on Carbahn. Dinan doesn’t appear to warranty their stage one map.

This is interesting. More reason to go Carbahn stage 1, no hardware needed vs Dinan.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Inuyasha

Got it. I need to do more research. I’m leaning towards Carbahn cause I think its a less aggressive tune with stock like power delivery characteristics.

What about it less agressive? There really is no magic to stage 1, they are all almost identical. Stage 1 Carbhan nets you around 500 whp, just like the other tunes. There's a post earlier in this thread with dyno numbers.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by Inuyasha

This is interesting. More reason to go Carbahn stage 1, no hardware needed vs Dinan.

To be clear the hardware requirement/reccommendation for Dinan+HE (and the higher level stage 1 octanes) is there for the consumers own benefit. Could you make that power without the heat exchanger -- sure... for a single pull. After that though the factory safegaurds derate the power in order to protect the engine. Could turn those nannies off but then why would we warrant a tune that is effectively playing with fire? The heat exchanger is required so you can achieve advertised power consistently and safely and not just for a single glory run.

[ptper]

Quoting this here...and to say I'm really sorry this happened to you man. Unfortunately, CarBahn is not active on BP, so I don't think they will respond. At least Dinan is somewhat active though...so maybe that should be a factor in deciding between the two.

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

From personal experience, I would take what Carbahn says with a grain of salt. All marketing tactics. They don't seem to understand their own products with older DMEs, let alone what they would need to unlock the newest ones.

-I was 100% set to get my car tuned with Carbahn.
-I checked with them 3 times to ensure that I can use their remote flashing tool before placing an order and using my VIN number they confirmed that it would work. 3 times!
-It wasn't a question of "we may run into issues", but they were confident that it works.
-Fast forward, and the remote flashing tool didn't work after they had to "troubleshoot" with some company in Italy.
-They said, "don't worry, take it to the BMW dealer (Carbahn Partner) and they can unlock it via ODB2 port. It will take them 1-1.5 hours at the very most."
-I took it to the dealer, they were nice enough to even give me a rental. One day passed, nothing. Next day came and the dealer said "we can't unlock this via OBD2, it will cost $500 to bench unlock."

I called Carbahn and said that I don't mind keeping the product (even without ability to flash myself) if you want to cover the difference between what they promised me (charge of remote flashing tool, which I would return) and what BMW says it needs to happen for this to work. They refused.

Needless to say the dealer was not happy. Carbahn wasted their time. They had to give out a rental for 2 days based on Carbahn's claims, which were wrong. Rental could have been used for people who actually needed service done. Thankfully BMW did not charge me anything for wasting their time.

I viewed it not only as a bait and switch tactic, but they are making the customer and BMW do the troubleshooting that they should be doing - not to mention the cost of time for everyone invovled (including the customer.) Not once did they say "sorry for wasting your time and continually giving you wrong information, driving to dealership at 7 AM for a 40 minute round trip during a pandemic, driving back...etc.)" They are basically viewing cases like this as "we can't predict" when other companies have clearly figured out a way how to do this.

I would expect something like this from a good company that I would ever consider purchasing a product from:

Either:

1. Have a program available that can perform a check whether their product works before purchase.
2. Have the option for the customer to go to the dealer and confirm BEFORE purchasing and wasting many peoples' time.

Instead, what I got was:

1. "Oh it asbsolutely works!"
2. "Sorry, method 1 didn't work (even though they were confident it would), but we have method 2 which absolutely works."
3. "Sorry, we can't predict these issues."
4. "To get it to work, you have to pay more than 2x of what the remote flashing tool costs (which we were confident would work) and you won't even have the option to go to stock yourself without paying the dealer again."

Carbahn basically said that they can't predict the software on the car, yet were very confident to confirm that it works when payment was made just using my VIN number. Some sort of disclaimer would be very useful here because had it been there, I would have never purchased their remote flashing tool in first place.

BM3 on the other hand can confirm beforehand if their license will work. Strange how that works. If I ever get my car tuned eventually, I know who I'll be going with.