[boba7523]

Is the Ohlin R&T worth the extra ~$900 over the Bilsten B16 PSS10 for my 80%/20% street/track use? I’m a beginner track driver and don’t intent on making this a dedicated race car, so not looking for the super high end coilovers.

I'm more performance oriented and can withstand stiffer spring rates. Prefer car planted on the ground vs hopping around just to be more comfortable.

1. - What’s the cost to have the coilover rebuilt and re-valved?, and how often are people doing it? I’ve seen every 15k miles?
2. - Do both Bilsten B16 PSS10 and Ohlin R&T need to be rebuilt / re-valved frequently?
3. - Do both coilovers work with Millway Street Camber plates?
4. - I believe Bilsten comes with progressive springs. I’d like linear springs instead so will need to factor that cost in.
5. - Both use 61mm ID springs?
6. - Both can be quickly adjusted without taking the wheels off?

I’m leaving KW v3 out of the list so the decision is easier unless there is a reason to include them here. I’ve heard their springs are ID 61mm so it’ll need modification to fit other spring options.

[CBUS_TR]

Check out the solutions provide by TCK: https://www.tcklineracing.com/index....y&Category=924.

Great value for a top flight set up.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by boba7523

Is the Ohlin R&T worth the extra ~$900 over the Bilsten B16 PSS10 for my 80%/20% street/track use? I’m a beginner track driver and don’t intent on making this a dedicated race car, so not looking for the super high end coilovers.

I'm more performance oriented and can withstand stiffer spring rates. Prefer car planted on the ground vs hopping around just to be more comfortable.

1. - What’s the cost to have the coilover rebuilt and re-valved?, and how often are people doing it? I’ve seen every 15k miles?
2. - Do both Bilsten B16 PSS10 and Ohlin R&T need to be rebuilt / re-valved frequently?
3. - Do both coilovers work with Millway Street Camber plates?
4. - I believe Bilsten comes with progressive springs. I’d like linear springs instead so will need to factor that cost in.
5. - Both use 61mm ID springs?
6. - Both can be quickly adjusted without taking the wheels off?

I’m leaving KW v3 out of the list so the decision is easier unless there is a reason to include them here. I’ve heard their springs are ID 61mm so it’ll need modification to fit other spring options.

Never driven/ridden in a car with the Bilsteins so I can't answer your questions regarding comparisons. I think for your use case, the R&T is perfect. I had a set on my first M2 for ~8k miles and migrated them to my 2nd M2 Comp where they saw a bit of track usage and more street miles. Out of the box, they do what they say which is work well on the road first and the track second—they are not a track-focused damper. I found them to be an excellent product and easily livable on rougher roads and then competent at the track until I started to desire a significant increase in spring rate. Their dual-flow valve is pretty smart and takes away a lot of the harshness of having a more firmly damped setup.

Do you have a dealer in mind for the Öhlins? 3DM Motorsport has answers to some of your questions on their site, so I'll pull from there. Full disclosure, I'm a 3DM customer and Öhlins fan.

1. Öhlins recommends 30k km as a service interval but I suspect most people go far over this recommendation without issues. The cost to service 4 dampers from 3DM is $500. Revalve at the same time is $120 for all 4. This may be discounted if you purchase the kit from them.
2. My experience with the Öhlins is that they do not need frequent servicing.
3. I can't speak to the compatibility with Millay plates.
4. Can't speak to the springs that come on the Bilsteins.
5. Öhlins R&T uses an ID65 spring.
6. Adjustments are at the bottom of the R&T dampers and can be done while lying on the ground. It takes 2-3 minutes if you're quick to properly adjust the clickers.

[boba7523]

Thanks for your reply!

Another downgrade I found with the Bilstein B16 is that there's no separate pre-load and ride height adjustment on Bilstein B16 while Ohlin R&T allows for this. I honestly don't know how useful this may be, but there are people using B16s at the track and seem happy with it...

Also, since compression and rebound can't be independently adjusted, I guess the B16s are really more comparable to for example the KW V1.

So I guess in a way, I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges here because these two coilover systems are in different leagues.

[medphysdave]

I've done quite a bit of internet searching on this topic. I came across a number of comments that the B16s were quite stiff feeling for DD. Those with the RT seem to really like them. Especially if tracking will only be an occasional endeavor.

I've landed in a spot where I'll go with a set of Nitrons. I bring this up because OG Shark has a road kit. I'm wondering if the road kit could be upgraded later with the camber plates and stiffer springs if you got more involved with track days. Might be worth an ask, but this might also be out of budget

[mike@x-ph.com]

Ohlins is worth the investment, its the best system on the market in my opinion

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by boba7523

Thanks for your reply!

Another downgrade I found with the Bilstein B16 is that there's no separate pre-load and ride height adjustment on Bilstein B16 while Ohlin R&T allows for this. I honestly don't know how useful this may be, but there are people using B16s at the track and seem happy with it...

Also, since compression and rebound can't be independently adjusted, I guess the B16s are really more comparable to for example the KW V1.

So I guess in a way, I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges here because these two coilover systems are in different leagues.

Having a separate height adjuster allows you to keep the damper/strut in the middle of its travel, so you are not losing neither compression or droop travel.

Just remember that some damping adjustment isn't fully independent. Ohlins with its rebound damping will move compression around 20% in the same direction as well.

Feel free to reach out for quotes on KW, Bilstein, TC Kline Racing and Ohlins. We were the largest Ohlins R&T retailers last year and have some of the best prices around.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by boba7523

Thanks for your reply!

Another downgrade I found with the Bilstein B16 is that there's no separate pre-load and ride height adjustment on Bilstein B16 while Ohlin R&T allows for this. I honestly don't know how useful this may be, but there are people using B16s at the track and seem happy with it...

Also, since compression and rebound can't be independently adjusted, I guess the B16s are really more comparable to for example the KW V1.

So I guess in a way, I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges here because these two coilover systems are in different leagues.

It's not uncommon, even on some very high-end dampers to not have independent ride height adjustment. It's something to be aware of but not a deal-breaker by any means.

The Öhlins R&T kit is also single adjustable—technically rebound only but there's some low-speed cross-talk on the compression side* (adjusting rebound will adjust compression but to a much lesser effect). Neither the compression side or Dual Flow Valve (DFV) are adjustable.

*I believe this is common with rebound adjustments on monotube dampers

[boba7523]

I can tolerate spring rates that are a bit stiffer than M2C stocks for street driving.

While doing research on the R&T, quite a few folks have actually mentioned having to switch out to softer spring rates because of how stiff it was, so a bit of contradiction there.

For Bilsten B16, are there kits out there that come with linear springs so I don't have to buy them separately? I also heard the Litchfield B16s were good.

[Telluride]

Originally Posted by boba7523

I can tolerate spring rates that are a bit stiffer than M2C stocks for street driving.

While doing research on the R&T, quite a few folks have actually mentioned having to switch out to softer spring rates because of how stiff it was, so a bit of contradiction there...

Read the same about R&T's when I was researching coilovers. Chose R&T and I have had installed for 2yrs. Have never looked back nor do I have a better understanding today, of those who posted their 'too stiff' spring comments.

Experiment with various damper adjuster settings and you can make it hop/skip stiff, all the way to a soft/floaty feel.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by boba7523

I can tolerate spring rates that are a bit stiffer than M2C stocks for street driving.

While doing research on the R&T, quite a few folks have actually mentioned having to switch out to softer spring rates because of how stiff it was, so a bit of contradiction there.

For Bilsten B16, are there kits out there that come with linear springs so I don't have to buy them separately? I also heard the Litchfield B16s were good.

If I were going the Bilstein route I'd go Litchfield. I think they run softer springs, but I'm guessing the custom valving is matched well. My preference would lean towards something tuned for the f8x platform when possible.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by boba7523

Is the Ohlin R&T worth the extra ~$900 over the Bilsten B16 PSS10 for my 80%/20% street/track use? I’m a beginner track driver and don’t intent on making this a dedicated race car, so not looking for the super high end coilovers.

Ohlins R&T is a far superior damper than the Bilstein B16. There are three versions of the R&T kit - standard, dedicated track and street (offered by 3DM and Turner. The R&T is a perfect match for 80% street and 20% track.

I'm more performance oriented and can withstand stiffer spring rates. Prefer car planted on the ground vs hopping around just to be more comfortable.

The street kit comes with lower rates and, I believe, you can select custom rates and, with 3DM, appropriately valved dampers.

1. - What’s the cost to have the coilover rebuilt and re-valved?, and how often are people doing it? I’ve seen every 15k miles?
   
   Cost is typically $350-400 per damper for a simple rebuild, may be higher if other parts need replacing. Buying a sta card or street kit from 3DM comes with one free rebuild (authorized Ohlins TTX race dampers and R&T dampers. I have a set of R&T dampers on my r56 Mini Cooper S that plastered 50k miles before needing a rebuild. Depending on use I’d say typical is 25k miles (heavily tracked) to 40k miles (street only).
   
2. - Do both Bilsten B16 PSS10 and Ohlin R&T need to be rebuilt / re-valved frequently?
   
   See above for Ohlins. Not familiar with Bilstein intervals but probably similar to R&T.
   
3. - Do both coilovers work with Millway Street Camber plates?
   
   Ohlins R&T kits should work with Millway but 3DM Dedicated Track and Street use Vorshlag plates.
   
4. - I believe Bilsten comes with progressive springs. I’d like linear springs instead so will need to factor that cost in.
   
   Bilstein - If the front spring rate is progressive you’d have to convert to linear race springs + camber plates because it comes with a tapered front spring that uses the stock upper strut mount. Standard R&T comes with a tapered front spring I believe is a linear rate spring.
   
5. - Both use 61mm ID springs?
   
   There is no 61 mm ID spring. Ohlins dedicated track and street kits use 65 mm ID springs.
   
   
6. - Both can be quickly adjusted without taking the wheels off?
   
   Yes for R&T, adjusted at the bottom of the damper so you reach around the wheel.
   

I’m leaving KW v3 out of the list so the decision is easier unless there is a reason to include them here. I’ve heard their springs are ID 61mm so it’ll need modification to fit other spring options.

I’d highly recommend the R&T. Its DFV adjusts both rebound and compression at the same time and not just by a small % of rebound adjustment. High-end monotubes absolutely do not have cross-talk and if they do then they’re not a high-end monotube damper.

[boba7523]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’d highly recommend the R&T. Its DFV adjusts both rebound and compression at the same time and not just by a small % of rebound adjustment. High-end monotubes absolutely do not have cross-talk and if they do then they’re not a high-end monotube damper.

I thought the Bilsteins also has one knob that adjusts both compression and rebound at the same time?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by boba7523

I thought the Bilsteins also has one knob that adjusts both compression and rebound at the same time?

Bilstein B16 may adjust both but their compression adjustment is due to cross talk.

The R&T DFV (dual-flow valve) truly adjusts rebound and compression. Here’s a dyno test of the f8x M2/M3/M4 R&T dampers which clearly shows the compression is changing not due to cross talk:

https://youtu.be/EcuWrqjpIOM?si=pr144J60SMOdAaDI