[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

Quoting this here...and to say I'm really sorry this happened to you man. Unfortunately, CarBahn is not active on BP, so I don't think they will respond. At least Dinan is somewhat active though...so maybe that should be a factor in deciding between the two.

Thanks, man.

If I was a business owner, I would hate to have a client do my troubleshooting and waste hours of time only to say "we didn't know your software version."

Well then you should let the customer know that this is a possibility even after they ask you to confirm 3 times instead of confidently say that it works with two different methods, neither of which did.

I just hope that my SA will not hate me for making them go through this.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Thanks, man.

If I was a business owner, I would hate to have a client do my troubleshooting and waste hours of time only to say "we didn't know your software version."

Well then you should let the customer know that this is a possibility even after they ask you to confirm 3 times instead of confidently say that it works with two different methods, neither of which did.

I just hope that my SA will not hate me for making them go through this.

Which is why I'm really surprised about your whole situation. The guy Chris who I deal with is usually really good about responding (via text at least). Answered all my questions...but this was before making a purchase, so maybe it's different once you fork money over, ha.

[TheoIam]

The CarBahn stage 1 Purchase with the added warranty and flash tool was seem less although I did drive down to their shop in San Jose and waited for my car. Chris was very professional and even gave me a tour of the shop and I got to meet and shake Steve’s hand. I would totally do it all over again. The tune has been everything I wanted it to be.

This may be more of an issue doing all this through the mail.

[ptper]

Rereading the chain of events, I think supplying the VIN was not enough. If you received recent software updates regardless of whenever it rolled off the production line, you would be SOL. On their website, it states:

**Vehicles that have had a software update from a BMW dealer, or new vehicles delivered after June 2019 have an updated bootloader block that currently prevents OBD flashing. In this case,the DME will have to be sent to Carbahn Autoworks for bench loading.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

Which is why I'm really surprised about your whole situation. The guy Chris who I deal with is usually really good about responding (via text at least). Answered all my questions...but this was before making a purchase, so maybe it's different once you fork money over, ha.

That's who I worked with. I just can't trust someone again who is so confident up front, and doesn't want to do the right thing after what he initially told me was incorrect - 2 times! I work direclty with Sales in my company and this is a perfect example of someone who just wants to sell the product without ensuring the customer is getting what he really needs. "Sell now, answer questions later. Return if needed even if their time is wasted - worth a try!"

As if we are doing him a favor for purchasing his products and doing his troubleshooting while he thinks that hours of time wasted is not compensatable.

It's like buying a TV and they ship you a European power cord and tell you "Sorry, we didn't know you don't use a European power cord even though you told us multiple times what you have. However, we won't be able to exchange it for a U.S. power cord but instead you have to take the TV off the wall, pack it back up, drive it to Fedex and ship it back to us. Oh, and we won't give you back the initial shipping cost even though it's our fault!"

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

Rereading the chain of events, I think supplying the VIN was not enough. If you received recent software updates regardless of whenever it rolled off the production line, you would be SOL. On their website, it states:

**Vehicles that have had a software update from a BMW dealer, or new vehicles delivered after June 2019 have an updated bootloader block that currently prevents OBD flashing. In this case,the DME will have to be sent to Carbahn Autoworks for bench loading.

Correct, which is why I tripple checked. They told me to send the VIN so that they can make sure that I won't be encountering any issues.

Instead of saying "there is still a possibility that it may not work" this was their direct response after I wanted to make sure that my car was not affected:

"This integration level is supported by our tablet and there shouldn’t be any problem with reading and programming the car with the tablet."

If I said that to a customer and it didn't work, and then made them jump through hoops to schedule appointments with a dealership, getting a loaner only to find out that even their second solution didn't work, I'd make sure that any other solution (and additional cost) is covered by me. It's as if their don't take any responsibility in what they say.

I just want to ensure that everyone knows how these guys operate. If I read a customer review like the one I had, I would stay far away from a company like that.

[flybigjet]

I had just the opposite experience. I had an issue and Steve & Chris did everything in their power to make things right, minimize the impact on myself and keep me in the loop-- I was *very* impressed.

R.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

I had just the opposite experience. I had an issue and Steve & Chris did everything in their power to make things right, minimize the impact on myself and keep me in the loop-- I was *very* impressed.

R.

Can you share more details? Did they tell you things would work out of the box and when they didn't did they make you pay 2x more after weeks of troubleshooting? I'm curious what they did to make things right, unless it just worked straight out of the box.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Can you share more details? Did they tell you things would work out of the box and when they didn't did they make you pay 2x more after weeks of troubleshooting? I'm curious what they did to make things right, unless it just worked straight out of the box.

I drove the car out from Denver to San Jose to Carbahn's shop.

They did some additional work on the car as well as the tune.

I drove back to Denver via Seattle, but on the way home I started having hesitation over about 4000 RPM at WOT.

I communicated the issue to Chris, and shortly thereafter, Steve Dinan called me (on the 4th of July, no less) to discuss the issue in-depth.

He told me to take it to the dealer as they don't "hide" their tunes and have them run the codes and send them to Carbahn. They analyzed the codes and determined it was an error in the flash. At Carbahn's direction, the dealer pulled the DME, FedExed it to Carbahn, they reflashed it, FedEx'ed it back to the dealer, and the dealer reinstalled it.

Problem solved. Total out of pocket expense? $0.00.

Chris was absolutely on top of the issue with excellent communication. I couldn't ask for anything else. Hence, their recommendation from me.

R.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

I drove the car out from Denver to San Jose to Carbahn's shop.

Apples vs Oranges. It's easy to troubleshoot a car when they have it there. It's another thing to promise a customer something (2x) and then just say "tough luck" without even admitting guilt or apologizing.

I think the majority of the forum is either taking their car to their own local dealer or purchasing the remote flashing tool.

If the company tells you that something will work after checking a specific car, then you expect it to work. If that doesn't work and they once again promise you that the second option will work (after wasting a lot of peoples' time), you expect it to work or for them to do anything possible to make it right via any other available options.

Unfortunatelly they did not deliver on any of their promises. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[ptper]

A little late in cross-posting my slip after doing some runs at a private track rental earlier this month, but thought folks may be interested:

Originally Posted by ptper

Finally got this done a few weeks ago. I think it may be the first real data point from the "warrantied" tuners.

11.248 @ 123.84 - 1.733 60' - ptper / F80 M3 DCT / CarBahn Stage 1 / AWE Exhaust / BMC Filters / RE-71R on BBS wheels / 93 Octane / DA +972'

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=333

[pawelczyk7]

1 full sec better than stock .... nice numbers

[MadM2C]

FWIW

I too read the great online reviews and wanted to do business with Carbahn. But after several missed deadlines and just overall poor communication. I decided to return my unit and go with someone else.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by MadM2C

FWIW

I too read the great online reviews and wanted to do business with Carbahn. But after several missed deadlines and just overall poor communication. I decided to return my unit and go with someone else.

Trust me, you made the right choice!

[AmooManiak]

Thanks for posting this. I love when people share their numbers so that we can anlyze the differences between the tunes. Nice to be able to compare against the Stage 1 BM3, although of course different conditions yield different results.

Based on less mods and the trap speed, it looks like the BM3 makes a little more power. I trapped 124.94 with just a Stage 1 and MPE. I recently put in the BMC filters and will be taking it to the track where I should be able to get a much better launch. Hoping to be in very low 11s based on the 11.5 ET on the street. It looks like the 60ft time was the main difference between the two before the power starts taking over towards the end of the run.

Your 1/8 trap was .7 mph slower while the 1/4 trap was 1.1 mph slower, which would imply that the BM3 pulls a little better at the top end even with the stock filters. Nice to see how they compare and how little there is between them for an OTS tune.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Thanks for posting this. I love when people share their numbers so that we can anlyze the differences between the tunes. Nice to be able to compare against the Stage 1 BM3, although of course different conditions yield different results.

Based on less mods and the trap speed, it looks like the BM3 makes a little more power. I trapped 124.94 with just a Stage 1 and MPE. I recently put in the BMC filters and will be taking it to the track where I should be able to get a much better launch. Hoping to be in very low 11s based on the 11.5 ET on the street. It looks like the 60ft time was the main difference between the two before the power starts taking over towards the end of the run.

Your 1/8 trap was .7 mph slower while the 1/4 trap was 1.1 mph slower, which would imply that the BM3 pulls a little better at the top end even with the stock filters. Nice to see how they compare and how little there is between them for an OTS tune.

Yea, I arrived at the same conclusions and wasn't surprised. If anything, I would have thought the difference would be more, especially if they are going to 'warranty' it. In any case, it's good to validate that the gains are real vs. other unnamed tuners that will void your warranty if you try to test it out on your own.

I actually I think I can improve a little more with better DA. Either way, pretty happy with the tune and the peace of mind.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

Yea, I arrived at the same conclusions and wasn't surprised. If anything, I would have thought the difference would be more, especially if they are going to 'warranty' it. In any case, it's good to validate that the gains are real vs. other unnamed tuners that will void your warranty if you try to test it out on your own.

I actually I think I can improve a little more with better DA. Either way, pretty happy with the tune and the peace of mind.

Yeah, I figured all Stage 1 tunes are very similar. It's good to know that BM3 should be as reliable as Carbahn where they are not trying to pump out crazy HP numbers from a Stage 1. At the same time, it's nice having the option to get a more custom tune with BM3 if you do want more HP instead of the standard OTS Stage 1. And then of course you have the option to do it all at home instead of going to the dealership where they will flag your car right away. Seeing how Carbahn handled their initial sale and post sale support, I would not feel comfortable them taking ownership of anything that goes wrong with the car if the dealership was to say it's tune related.

I think most people now fall into these two categories:

1. They have an older car/DME but don't have enough of the original warranty left to justify the higher price of the Carbahn, which appears to be very similar to BM3 so the reliability should be similar.

2. They have a newer DME but can't tune their cars yet, so neither tune works for them.

[flybigjet]

As a counterpoint, I've had nothing but an outstanding experience with Carbahn-- great communication, prompt service. There was a glitch in my initial flash, and they took care of it with not even a tiny bit of hesitation. Cost was zero to me, and they worked with my local dealer to pull the DME, ship it to them, receive the DME and reinstall it.

Not sure what happened with AmooManiak, but at least for my experience, (both in person, and via email/text/phone), I've been very, very pleased with them and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them or use them again.

Well, I do have a bit of a complaint in I can't keep my traction control from flashing in fourth gear at WOT-- new tires with better compound required.

R.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Yeah, I figured all Stage 1 tunes are very similar. It's good to know that BM3 should be as reliable as Carbahn where they are not trying to pump out crazy HP numbers from a Stage 1. At the same time, it's nice having the option to get a more custom tune with BM3 if you do want more HP instead of the standard OTS Stage 1. And then of course you have the option to do it all at home instead of going to the dealership where they will flag your car right away. Seeing how Carbahn handled their initial sale and post sale support, I would not feel comfortable them taking ownership of anything that goes wrong with the car if the dealership was to say it's tune related.

I think most people now fall into these two categories:

1. They have an older car/DME but don't have enough of the original warranty left to justify the higher price of the Carbahn, which appears to be very similar to BM3 so the reliability should be similar.

2. They have a newer DME but can't tune their cars yet, so neither tune works for them.

At the time, I had close two years of warranty left on the car, which is why I researched Carbahn, Dinan, and Noelle (not really).

I have an un-updated DME which allows me to flash at home. I have been to the dealer twice since installing and instructed them to not perform an update unless checking with me first. They have complied with this request. Once I am out of warranty, I may look at other options like BM3, or I may not, or I may get another car. In the end, I really don't know if they will live up to the warranty. I hope I never find out.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Not sure what happened with AmooManiak, but at least for my experience, (both in person, and via email/text/phone), I've been very, very pleased with them and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them or use them again.

Literally nothing happened that would cause them to have such bad customer service. I followed all their directions for each step and all they did was waste my time.

1. Checked VIN before ordering. They said it will work.
2. Got the hardware for remote flashing and it didn't work.
3. Waited for days for them to get a hold of someone in Italy.
4. Told me to take it to the dealership and they could do it via OBD2. They ensured me multiple times that that's all that's needed and they would charge me 1-2 hours for labor, which is the quivelant of haivng the tool. After waiting for weeks, I agreed even though I would have preferred being able to flash it myself at any point.
5. Dealership said they have to remove the DME and wanted to charge me 5 hours on top of what I had already paid Carbahn.

At that point I figured I might as well go with a more reputable brand like BM3 if I'm getting my DME bench unlocked, which many of the forum members already use and it's proven in high quantities over someone who has been giving me a runaround for weeks.

I was thinking about how bad a warranty claim process would be if they are this unorganized when it comes to the initial flash. They couldn't even get a hold of anyone at the dealership for a week, which they claimed was a Carbahn dealer! I had to track someone from service for them!

It was the most amateurish transaction I've ever had. BM3 on the other hand was on top of their game from the get go - even said that I needed it bench unlocked when I downloaded their software to check. Response time was insane - they got back to me to all questions within minutes. I feel so much more comfortable knowing someone is available to answer questions right away should they arise instead of letting calls go to voicemail or waiitng 48 hours for a response via email.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

At the time, I had close two years of warranty left on the car, which is why I researched Carbahn, Dinan, and Noelle (not really).

I have an un-updated DME which allows me to flash at home. I have been to the dealer twice since installing and instructed them to not perform an update unless checking with me first. They have complied with this request. Once I am out of warranty, I may look at other options like BM3, or I may not, or I may get another car. In the end, I really don't know if they will live up to the warranty. I hope I never find out.

Yes, that makes sense (should they honor the warranty.) I have 1.5 years left plus an additional year of CPO. I'm curious to see anyone who's had a claim with a Carbahn tune and how that went. I wasn't able to find anything.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm curious to see anyone who's had a claim with a Carbahn tune and how that went. I wasn't able to find anything.

Didn't you read that I had a claim with a Carbahn tune that was covered under their warranty?

I was having some hesitation at high rpm's on my way back to CO from CA (with a side-detour through OR and WA). I emailed Chris telling him what I was experiencing and sent him a video of my tach as well.

He reached out to me immediately, and Steve Dinan himself called me-- on the 4th of July.

We had a long conversation and he told me explicitly that they "don't hide their tunes" and to take it to my dealer of choice for diagnostics and they would cover all costs.

The dealer did a pull on the DME codes-- I sent that information to Chris at Carbahn, and within a day their Tech had looked it over, and determined something had gotten glitchy in the tune (possibly a bad software flash) and to have the dealership send the DME to them.

I had the dealership pull the DME, send it to them, they reflashed, sent it back to the dealer, and the dealer re-installed. I simply told the dealership's service department what to do and it happened. They handled all of the shipping details.

It was easiest for me to pay the dealer and for Carbahn to reimburse me. I sent them the paid invoice, and I had a check in my hand within a week.

I should point out that it was MY choice to handle payment that way, simply because it was easiest all the way around (and I got points on my card).

Carbahn paid immediately and were great to work with.

I'm sorry that you had a different experience, but based on what I saw, their shop is frankly, amazing and every person I dealt with was extremely professional.

Not trying to pick a fight-- just telling the community what my experience with Carbahn was. It's almost like we dealt with two different shops and people-- that's a little weird.

R.