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      10-16-2020, 08:50 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
That's not how it works. Been in the business since 1992.
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well? You're supposedly oozing with real world experience on the 'business' and you have nothing to add countering my claim but humble bragging?

So tell me, how are you certain whom is assigned what specific job at a franchise dealership service department?
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Well, I was only replying to your reply to my post so in order to avoid turning it into an argument I purposely refrained from expanding on the thought, which I will continue to do. If you want to decide you have it figured out, that's fine with me. I have nothing to prove to you, it doesn't pay well enough.
Higgs, that is lame.
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      10-16-2020, 09:42 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
The only tiny imperfections on the whole roof are on the left side in the middle almost . But you cannot see them even if you are close to the car in real life . You may see the "imperfection" but when you move a little hit and changes colour , seems normal . Honestly , i dont care about those imperfections , are so so tiny , in a roof that seems so beautiful , racing flag boxes , making great contrast with the colour of the car.
Each roof is different then , so each roof is unique . But , those imperfections , really are so few and small , but also cool since it seems like its handmade and they made each roof different ! It doesnt affect the car image at all !
[PICTURE]
[PICTURE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedoniste View Post
Here is mine (car is a week 39 production):
[VIDEO]

And with a " enhancing " filter
[VIDEO]
I didn't check the passenger side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVMYCS View Post
US spec production week 40 build - I have imperfections.
Driver side "S" imperfections roughly 3x8
Passenger side "U" x2 imperfections roughly 3x4 and 2x3
Glad for you all that the imperfections on your M2 CS cars are only minor and quite discreet as regards visibility.

It appears that some M2 CS cars are not affected:
Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_Poll.jpg
Views: 775
Size:  78.5 KB
(source: here - poll thread: here)

For your info: Ferrari Enzo CFRP hood for Michael Schumacher back in 2003.

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      10-16-2020, 01:53 PM   #113
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Higgs, that is lame.
I'm ok with that. I really only have time to pop in and see the conversation. Just look at all the words you guys are typing. Certainly don't have the stamina for that anymore! One liners only for me, thanks.

Sorry to let you down.
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      10-16-2020, 04:17 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Hedoniste View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedoniste View Post
I didn't see any problem on the CS I bought but it was raining. I will pick up the car on Wednesday and I hope to be quickly able to inspect the roof under direct sunlight. I will post here asap my feedback. Thanks for creating this thread
Here is mine (car is a week 39 production):




And with a " enhancing " filter


I didn't check the passenger side.
I checked tonight the roof and I can now confirm that mine has imperfections on the driver side only.
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      10-16-2020, 04:34 PM   #115
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Looks to be a very similar defect in approximately the same location? It's really strange. I hope one day BMW records a bit about the challenges and what we are seeing as "defects" in the roof.
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      10-16-2020, 04:51 PM   #116
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My further 2cents about the construction. Watching the CFRP roof creation video you will notice similar defects in the standard carbon roof. These defects are present until the material is placed under a large press. The M2CS roof with it's "honeycomb" center structure would/could not go through the same pressing process. It this process that stretches the material and removes the defects from loose regions in the material. The M2CS roof is likely handmade for a large part of the process and would need a special tool to strectch the material and sandwich the center structure without destroying it at the same time.

Try stretching out a net so that all cross sections are equal. Similar concept with a course woven material. If it gets stretched too much in any direction it can sometimes be very difficult to undo. Align the best you can and spray it with a ton the clear, or tinted clear like mentioned previously.

I think we are seeing ripples in the fabric from not lying perfectly flat or not being cut to take into account the final curvature of the panel. Try nicely wrapping a ball with a piece of notebook papar
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      10-16-2020, 05:15 PM   #117
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      10-16-2020, 05:33 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
My further 2cents about the construction. Watching the CFRP roof creation video you will notice similar defects in the standard carbon roof. These defects are present until the material is placed under a large press. The M2CS roof with it's "honeycomb" center structure would/could not go through the same pressing process. It this process that stretches the material and removes the defects from loose regions in the material. The M2CS roof is likely handmade for a large part of the process and would need a special tool to strectch the material and sandwich the center structure without destroying it at the same time.

Try stretching out a net so that all cross sections are equal. Similar concept with a course woven material. If it gets stretched too much in any direction it can sometimes be very difficult to undo. Align the best you can and spray it with a ton the clear, or tinted clear like mentioned previously.

I think we are seeing ripples in the fabric from not lying perfectly flat or not being cut to take into account the final curvature of the panel. Try nicely wrapping a ball with a piece of notebook papar
You're undoubtedly on the general right track in describing the issue. Root cause analysis would probably suggest the manufacturing process wasn't fully fleshed out with the design approval. Wonder how much custom tooling (mandrels etc.) was required for this one-off roof design - or did they reuse tooling having similar/identical shape and dimension requirements for F87?

Even this limited-run vehicle will realize gross receipts in the ballpark of $200M USD - not a big account for a mass-producer of cars, to be sure, but not chump change either.
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      10-16-2020, 06:17 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george.ax View Post
Might be my imagination, but I'm perceiving some commonality in the imperfections on the vehicles shown on this board and in some of the reviews. Majority seem to be in the middle of the roof (front-to-back), close to the edge (L-R), and generally running "long" (high aspect ratio) L-R rather than squarish or random blotches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Looks to be a very similar defect in approximately the same location? It's really strange. I hope one day BMW records a bit about the challenges and what we are seeing as "defects" in the roof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
My further 2cents about the construction. Watching the CFRP roof creation video you will notice similar defects in the standard carbon roof. These defects are present until the material is placed under a large press. The M2CS roof with its "honeycomb" center structure would/could not go through the same pressing process. It this process that stretches the material and removes the defects from loose regions in the material. The M2CS roof is likely handmade for a large part of the process and would need a special tool to stretch the material and sandwich the center structure without destroying it at the same time.
Try stretching out a net so that all cross sections are equal. Similar concept with a course woven material. If it gets stretched too much in any direction it can sometimes be very difficult to undo. Align the best you can and spray it with a ton the clear, or tinted clear like mentioned previously.
I think we are seeing ripples in the fabric from not lying perfectly flat or not being cut to take into account the final curvature of the panel. Try nicely wrapping a ball with a piece of notebook papar
Affirmative. Imperfections reported so far: looks like a pattern (no pun intended).



On the M2 CS on display in Los Angeles (Autumn 2019), there were also some 'raclette' sections closer to the windscreen:
Name:  M2_CS_CFRP_Roof_05.jpg
Views: 649
Size:  148.4 KB
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      10-16-2020, 07:24 PM   #120
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Does the roof bow inward with respect to where the corners start at the front and rear window? If yes, then the material would have to pinch in a bit near the apex of the curve. One major defect at the apex or a few minor defects if you try to spread it out. This could be a roof pattern error that wasn't remedied.
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      10-16-2020, 07:44 PM   #121
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I couldn't drive that off the lot looking like that, would drive me crazy 🤯
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      10-16-2020, 08:29 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Affirmative. Imperfections reported so far: looks like a pattern (no pun intended).



On the M2 CS on display in Los Angeles (Autumn 2019), there were also some 'raclette' sections closer to the windscreen:
Attachment 2439451
"Raclette" - a great and apt European descriptor (though a pretty dire outcome for the roof!) Think I'll dub my American Beauty the "Classic Van" look ..
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      10-16-2020, 08:33 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by george.ax View Post
"Raclette" - a great and apt European descriptor (though a pretty dire outcome for the roof!) Think I'll dub my American Beauty the "Classic Van" look ..
We should get a free pair with every purchase
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      10-16-2020, 08:53 PM   #124
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a pair of rigid anti-pronation inserts and they might make some decent driving shoes
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      10-17-2020, 10:15 PM   #125
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Ran into this on a youtube video I was watching, stuck out once you know where it is. Looks like same area as some of the other cars.

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      10-17-2020, 10:42 PM   #126
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We most assuredly are seeing a trend. In hindsight it's not surprising the production issue would be more or less consistent from unit to unit. Occurring at the assembly level and not at the CF sheet formation level.
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      10-18-2020, 12:37 PM   #127
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      10-18-2020, 01:00 PM   #128
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One of my thoughts is this is part of the normal curvature of the roof shifting the material as evidenced in the videos and is somehow more difficult or more visible either because of the larger weave pattern or the structural sandwich layers unique to this roof construction.
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      10-18-2020, 05:59 PM   #129
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The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the beat
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      10-18-2020, 08:24 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george.ax View Post
We most assuredly are seeing a trend. In hindsight it's not surprising the production issue would be more or less consistent from unit to unit. Occurring at the assembly level and not at the CF sheet formation level.
which to me is preferable if its mostly consistent with all cars then at least its a factory level thing and not specific to any one car - that's something you can live with.

Now if there were REALLY perfect ones out there, I'd have an issue with it.. I have a feeling those who say are perfect either don't have a good eye or aren't looking at it in the right lighting condition
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      10-19-2020, 03:46 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3 View Post
which to me is preferable if its mostly consistent with all cars then at least its a factory level thing and not specific to any one car - that's something you can live with.

Now if there were REALLY perfect ones out there, I'd have an issue with it.. I have a feeling those who say are perfect either don't have a good eye or aren't looking at it in the right lighting condition
I've looked at my roof multiple times and haven't found any defect in the pattern. Tomorrow I can try to capture a video of it from multiple angles to show what it really looks like.
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      10-19-2020, 04:07 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2CS View Post
I've looked at my roof multiple times and haven't found any defect in the pattern. Tomorrow I can try to capture a video of it from multiple angles to show what it really looks like.
Very good to know
When was your vehicle built?
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