11-08-2019, 05:23 PM | #67 |
Brigadier General
5931
Rep 3,288
Posts |
I kind of want to drive it. Seems like they found their way to replicating a 1990's experience in a modern car. I don't know that I want to own it, but I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin to see if it brings back some GS-R memories or some such (not in must-rev-to-get-anything fashion, just in the general analog feel category). I've bitched about a few of the reviews here and there, and I feel utterly justified in most of my feelings about most of them.
The M2C reviews have been all over the place...high rank in one, out of the field in another. I spent months in a slump about my car starting in the Spring and ended up spending a bundle to wake up the audio feedback a bit with it. I'm happier with it now, but I'm also at the point where I mostly agree with the devil's-bargain comments in this review. Fast cars have gotten too fast and too good, and they've lost something. I modified the exhaust, not to fix the exhaust note that most folk think is so bad as I'm honestly not that particular with exhaust note (I want my car to sound like my car, not some other car I heard at some point or used to have), I just needed a bit more feedback. I'm not even close to wanting to actually performance mod this car since the roads and traffic are so limiting nowadays and even moderately quick cars are illegal by the end of second gear (or so). I think that Road and Track ran across a well-sorted car that you can push to its limits on a public road and fell in love with it. This was a slow-car-fast win. And I get it. |
Appreciate
1
Germanauto9701.00 |
11-09-2019, 12:49 PM | #68 | |
Captain
889
Rep 739
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
3
|
11-09-2019, 04:27 PM | #69 | |
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
All of them are crap compared to the base 2003 Boxster I had, any hydraulic steering from Porsche going back to the 80's really. I haven't driven any earlier Porsches but I suspect that amazing feel would go back all the way to origin. So the right alignment helps a bit in my M3, and having wheels as light as possible. None of the modern stuff has real feedback, and the journalists who pretend there is some huge difference between all the EPS systems are smoking some highly illegal stuff. IMO.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
|
Appreciate
1
Germanauto9701.00 |
11-09-2019, 04:31 PM | #70 | |
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
Recent graduates from the Google university. Hey Siri scientists.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2019, 08:27 AM | #71 |
Captain
371
Rep 769
Posts |
Make Them Fun Again
The M2 is by far the most fun BMW M in the line up today. To have R&T say it is clinical and wanting in connection or involvement is a sign of the times from the brand that had fun in its middle name.
AMG, Alfa and now HMC N have demonstrated that engagement and interaction works for today’s buyer. I hope M dials up this factor in the upcoming M3/M4 and shuts its critics up for all our sake. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2019, 11:58 AM | #72 | |
Major General
9701
Rep 6,084
Posts |
Quote:
Needless to say, I'm a bit depressed when it comes to the state of modern cars. The dominance of tech in society, emergence of China/Middle East (and their differing tastes), and strict emissions regulations have mostly stripped cars of providing a visceral driving experience. People care more about useless "features" in their cars now.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown -2012 Lexus IS250 black/black |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-10-2019, 02:51 PM | #73 |
Lieutenant Colonel
798
Rep 1,736
Posts
Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NYC
|
Well modern BMW is faster but a lot less feel, call that engineering progress for the PlayStation generation (point and drive, you're going to be fine 90% of the time...)
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-11-2019, 05:59 PM | #75 |
New Member
0
Rep 7
Posts |
Hey everyone, it only took us two decades to figure out that modern cars are numb! They should be embarrassed by that article.
Nothing against their choice as I've never driven that car. What's fun in a quick test might not be fun after three months, however. The M2c is pretty darn fun for a modern car. Did they keep it in efficiency mode? As for steering, are they driving the same car? It's not that bad. BTW, there's MUCH more to steering than just hydraulic vs EPS. And the shifter that they actually praise? I hate the shifter. Easiest shifter to money shift that I've ever driven. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-12-2019, 07:25 PM | #76 | |
Captain
607
Rep 969
Posts |
Quote:
I do think BMW is getting better. The G-generation vehicles have much improved steering feel and lost a lot of the numbness that plagued earlier generations. The EPS in my X3 M40i is noticeably better than the setup in my M2C. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-13-2019, 01:30 AM | #77 | |
Luxury at the redline :)
9105
Rep 7,563
Posts |
Quote:
Plus, the steering response is quicker with EPS than hydraulic, which is a great benefit to a performance car. Other than a lack of road feel, I don't see an issue with EPS, it seems like the natural evolution to an archaic part but they sure do get a bad rap in the enthusiast world. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-13-2019, 08:13 AM | #78 | ||
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying we should cling on to every old technology but maybe you should try one of the older Porsche systems and see what's been recently missing. And the quickness of the rack has nothing to do with the type of assistance.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
||
Appreciate
1
BlkSVT388.50 |
11-13-2019, 11:22 AM | #79 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
2178
Rep 1,662
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
3
|
11-13-2019, 11:53 AM | #80 | |
Major General
4449
Rep 7,594
Posts
Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
|
Quote:
I prefer the steering feel of my M2C over my old E92 M3!
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-13-2019, 11:55 AM | #81 |
Major General
4449
Rep 7,594
Posts
Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
|
Personally - the roads are such crap in the Chicago Metro area, I don't want to feel them.
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange) |
Appreciate
2
BlkSVT388.50 FractalFootwork142.50 |
11-13-2019, 01:07 PM | #82 |
HALA MADRID!
939
Rep 2,879
Posts |
same her
i prefer the feel on my M2C better than my e90 M3
__________________
F87 M2 Competition, Sunset Orange, Exc, DCT. **SOLD** F80 M3 Mineral Grey/Sakir Orange, Exc, DCT... ED 6/2015 **SOLD**E90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-13-2019, 05:53 PM | #83 |
Captain
607
Rep 969
Posts |
Not sure what you mean by that but driving these cars back to back on the same roads day to day, it's obvious there have been improvements. And I have owned a couple model F-generation cars including F32 coupes before and after the 2018 LCI where BMW made changes to the steering. They are getting better, but when I put all of this together, I can tell the F87 is still using a previous generation EPS system. It's vague/loose on center, which is a hallmark of the pre-2018 EPS systems. None of them are as good as the last hydraulic BMW I owned (2011 model), but the EPS has definitely improved as of late, whereby improved means "less awful" or "tolerable".
What we still don't have with BMW EPS is a feel for the front tires under cornering loads. Used to be you would get some self-straightening resistance back from the tires in turns and you'd feel when the tires were losing bite. The EPS motors pretty much isolate that from the driver. You could saw at the wheel and not really feel what the tires are doing. You mainly just feel what the car is doing. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-14-2019, 02:34 AM | #84 |
Major General
7334
Rep 7,295
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-14-2019, 10:09 AM | #85 | |
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
E36 was slightly better perhaps than E46 ZHP (best E46 system), E90 was significantly worse, F80 with good alignment and plates is a little worse than E90, and none of them are even half as good as a 997 or 986 etc. I usually see comments about how good their E46 steering was, or their E90, but unless you've driven an older Porsche, or Elise, or similar, you really have no basis for assessment. The difference really is that much. For example, my X3 has hydraulic steering but it isn't better than the F80. Just because it's hydraulic doesn't mean it's good. It was interesting that to me, driving a stock M2C back to back with my M3 (ZCP, stock wheels, camber plates with -2.6 degrees), the M2 felt worse - too light with little feedback around the straight ahead. I'm not an expert but I believe a good alignment can get an EPS to feel a bit more natural, the way it loads and unloads in the corners.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2019, 03:27 PM | #86 | |
First Lieutenant
667
Rep 335
Posts |
Quote:
The M2C has great steering precision, as well as great steering response from the chassis. No doubt about this. However, in the M2C, as cornering limits are approached, the feeling of the front tires losing grip is communicated more by the chassis, rather than through fine indications transmitted through the steering wheel, as great hydraulic steering systems certainly accomplished. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2019, 04:06 PM | #87 | |
Lieutenant
434
Rep 533
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-19-2019, 02:14 AM | #88 |
Private
77
Rep 75
Posts |
The S2000 is definitely a quicker rack with better weighting, but in terms of feel it is far number than my M2C.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|