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      10-07-2019, 03:58 PM   #23
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Write a letter! There was brief talk on rrax about having a super street touring class that would include the now-excluded runners from AS and BS, including the M2, the Caymans, and the Corvettes. I'd kill to drive an M2C with -4 degrees of camber.
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      10-07-2019, 04:06 PM   #24
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Write a letter! There was brief talk on rrax about having a super street touring class that would include the now-excluded runners from AS and BS, including the M2, the Caymans, and the Corvettes. I'd kill to drive an M2C with -4 degrees of camber.
I'll talk to some of the national staffs in NWR and CalClub and see what they think. a Street Touring setup M2C would be a riot to drive... should eat the caymans GTS for breakfast.
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      10-13-2019, 06:45 AM   #25
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So after having spent a year racing the M2C, I can report that its great results at a grippy and wide open Crows Landing didn't translate to other sites. The car got destroyed at Packwood and Fontana. And I never got a fair shake at competition against a Corvette on corded tires at the San Diego Match Tour. All told, the M2C isn't cutting the mustard in AS.
What is your overall take-away from autocrossing the car? How was the power delivery and ability to hook tires coming off an element? How about power modulation and weight transfer modulation with the throttle? What about turn-in and ability to recover slightly overcooking one? How did you find steering communication approaching/at/just over the peak?

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      10-22-2019, 07:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
What is your overall take-away from autocrossing the car? How was the power delivery and ability to hook tires coming off an element? How about power modulation and weight transfer modulation with the throttle? What about turn-in and ability to recover slightly overcooking one? How did you find steering communication approaching/at/just over the peak?

Regards,
Chuck
After 6 runs at BMW CCA O'fest autocross, I can answer my own questions now. By the way, the Peachtree Chapter ran the autocross at the Michelin Proving Grounds, and they setup an outstanding, very well designed course. Kudos to them!

Coming off elements in 2nd gear, the car hooks very well (RE71Rs) and as boost builds and S55 torque comes on so strongly, it is surprisingly easy to modulate rear slip angle with deft throttle adjustment. Far easier than I expected. I had a real sense of the tail of the car and how much throttle to use/take away to keep acceleration at its maximum (just enough slip but not too much, etc). From my experience with the car on the 1/2 mile wet skidpad, I didn't expect it to respond so well in this manner.

So power modulation is decent, excellent in fact, and while street driving made me think it wouldn't have much lift-throttle response, on course it felt fine -- I was easily able to control front weight transfer with the throttle and manage front slip angles. Again, it exceeded my expectations.

I did manage to overcook some entries on a couple of runs, and was able to easily reign in the car, albeit losing time. Steering feedback seemed good to me in that I was able to tell what was going on up front fairly well, and under major trail braking and turning, I could feel what the tires were doing ok.

Overall, the car exceeded my expectations.

Now whether the M2C is required to be in A-street is a different question of course. It would have been nice to have arranged with an owner of a pure stock OG M2 6MT slicktop and with the guys running O'fest autox, to do a comparison between the two cars using the same wheels/tires off my car (OZ stock width/offset wheels with RE71Rs). I might actually have been able to arrange this for a Roundel article now that I think about...it's so nice to have these great after-the-fact thoughts...
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      10-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
After 6 runs at BMW CCA O'fest autocross, I can answer my own questions now. By the way, the Peachtree Chapter ran the autocross at the Michelin Proving Grounds, and they setup an outstanding, very well designed course. Kudos to them!

Coming off elements in 2nd gear, the car hooks very well (RE71Rs) and as boost builds and S55 torque comes on so strongly, it is surprisingly easy to modulate rear slip angle with deft throttle adjustment. Far easier than I expected. I had a real sense of the tail of the car and how much throttle to use/take away to keep acceleration at its maximum (just enough slip but not too much, etc). From my experience with the car on the 1/2 mile wet skidpad, I didn't expect it to respond so well in this manner.

So power modulation is decent, excellent in fact, and while street driving made me think it wouldn't have much lift-throttle response, on course it felt fine -- I was easily able to control front weight transfer with the throttle and manage front slip angles. Again, it exceeded my expectations.

I did manage to overcook some entries on a couple of runs, and was able to easily reign in the car, albeit losing time. Steering feedback seemed good to me in that I was able to tell what was going on up front fairly well, and under major trail braking and turning, I could feel what the tires were doing ok.

Overall, the car exceeded my expectations.

Now whether the M2C is required to be in A-street is a different question of course. It would have been nice to have arranged with an owner of a pure stock OG M2 6MT slicktop and with the guys running O'fest autox, to do a comparison between the two cars using the same wheels/tires off my car (OZ stock width/offset wheels with RE71Rs). I might actually have been able to arrange this for a Roundel article now that I think about...it's so nice to have these great after-the-fact thoughts...
Sorry about the slow response, but glad to hear you enjoyed the car! Yes, I think it handles incredibly well (though it does eat up front tires at the limit pretty quickly), but it just doesn't have the pace to run in AS. I find that I get a bit of understeer with the car, and power modulation can be difficult in Sport Plus because it makes the pedal so sensitive. Still, nothing that can't be driven around.
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      10-29-2019, 12:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by McSmash View Post
So after having spent a year racing the M2C, I can report that its great results at a grippy and wide open Crows Landing didn't translate to other sites. The car got destroyed at Packwood and Fontana. And I never got a fair shake at competition against a Corvette on corded tires at the San Diego Match Tour. All told, the M2C isn't cutting the mustard in AS.
I don't necessarily disagree. The only reason I may trophy in my region is that the several Corvettes who provided serious competition jumped ship to CAM-S. Speaking to several people lately who mentioned an interest in the M2, I told them they'd be better off with the base car.

In my opinion, the SAC failed to take into account that the M2C can't take as much tire as the F80/F82, which they moved from AS to BS.
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      10-29-2019, 12:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
After 6 runs at BMW CCA O'fest autocross, I can answer my own questions now. By the way, the Peachtree Chapter ran the autocross at the Michelin Proving Grounds, and they setup an outstanding, very well designed course. Kudos to them!
Shoot, I wish I'd known you were there. I ended up second in class. Those two box elements on the last section were dementedly tight.
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      10-29-2019, 01:12 PM   #30
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Shoot, I wish I'd known you were there. I ended up second in class. Those two box elements on the last section were dementedly tight.
Yeah, we should have met up. I nailed down 1st in S1 class with a 47.9. That second box element was easy to get sucked into as I was able to take it essentially flat out in 2nd which of course created way too high of an entry speed into the slalom. I only fell for that twice at least. Then I treated that 2nd box and slalom as one continuous element in my mind from then on, lol.

In 44 years of autocrossing, I've never seen box elements like those, and my old local club had some crazy elements (like one we called the onion ring that drove most everyone bat crazy).

The Michelin black lake is a great venue for an autox. All the prior ones I've been to there used most of the entire area as opposed to 75% of it.

I guess "Oktoberfest" is over now for good...very strange for them to drop the annual O'fest event, especially with such high attendance this year even without a track event associated with it. Supposedly it's being replaced with a "rebranded" annual event of some type.

Here's a pic of my car from the event someone took:
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      10-29-2019, 01:25 PM   #31
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Yeah, we should have met up. I nailed down 1st in S1 class with a 47.9. That second box element was easy to get sucked into as I was able to take it essentially flat out in 2nd which of course created way too high of an entry speed into the slalom. I only fell for that twice at least. Then I treated that 2nd box and slalom as one continuous element in my mind from then on, lol.
Congrats on the win! Best I could manage was a 50.2. For some reason, the Chicago box gave me fits; coned away two runs there.
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      10-29-2019, 01:32 PM   #32
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Congrats on the win! Best I could manage was a 50.2. For some reason, the Chicago box gave me fits; coned away two runs there.
Funny you should mention that. I paced out the dimensions of that thing once I saw it was asymmetric, and I think it was like 48 feet going in and 33 feet coming out. Hence it was a bit of a bear of a box.

I did hit a few cones on course in a few runs as I wasn't accounting for the wide rear hips of this car enough, lol. This was the first time I've autocrossed the M2C, and I'm still not sure I'm used to its width out back.
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      10-29-2019, 06:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by McSmash View Post
Write a letter! There was brief talk on rrax about having a super street touring class that would include the now-excluded runners from AS and BS, including the M2, the Caymans, and the Corvettes. I'd kill to drive an M2C with -4 degrees of camber.
The first rule of fight club, you dont talk about fight club

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      10-30-2019, 01:53 PM   #34
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The first rule of fight club, you dont talk about fight club
Except in letters to the SEB where the end result is multiple degrees of camber and multiple thousands of dollars drained from my bank account.... That's written in the fine print...
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      10-30-2019, 05:30 PM   #35
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Sorry about the slow response, but glad to hear you enjoyed the car! Yes, I think it handles incredibly well (though it does eat up front tires at the limit pretty quickly), but it just doesn't have the pace to run in AS. I find that I get a bit of understeer with the car, and power modulation can be difficult in Sport Plus because it makes the pedal so sensitive. Still, nothing that can't be driven around.
I find the choice of Sport/Sport+ to be surface dependent. A lot of our events are run on grippy concrete. I always run Sport+ at that site; Sport feels downright numb. Another venue is very slippy-slidey asphalt. Sport+ there is difficult to control. I will definitely be experimenting with Sport the next time we run there.

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      11-12-2019, 05:13 PM   #36
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I find the choice of Sport/Sport+ to be surface dependent. A lot of our events are run on grippy concrete. I always run Sport+ at that site; Sport feels downright numb. Another venue is very slippy-slidey asphalt. Sport+ there is difficult to control. I will definitely be experimenting with Sport the next time we run there.
I would HIGHLY recommend trying it with all the nannies off next time. Track wise, I noticed even in sport+ or traction or any other mode that the traction control kept interfering with the car, especially on corner exit...it was stopping the diff from doing the magic that it does. Turned everything off, and dropped over 2 seconds in time. I typically NEVER drive with any of the nannies on in any of my previous cars ive tracked or autocrossed nationally...but wanted to test it myself to see what it would do.

Turn it off...you may find yourself swapping ends a few times until you get more comfortable with how the car handles, but once you learn the car, it REALLY rewards you by letting the diff work its magic, and by letting you rotate on entry and on exit and put more power down.
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      11-13-2019, 12:53 PM   #37
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I would HIGHLY recommend trying it with all the nannies off next time. Track wise, I noticed even in sport+ or traction or any other mode that the traction control kept interfering with the car, especially on corner exit...it was stopping the diff from doing the magic that it does. Turned everything off, and dropped over 2 seconds in time. I typically NEVER drive with any of the nannies on in any of my previous cars ive tracked or autocrossed nationally...but wanted to test it myself to see what it would do.

Turn it off...you may find yourself swapping ends a few times until you get more comfortable with how the car handles, but once you learn the car, it REALLY rewards you by letting the diff work its magic, and by letting you rotate on entry and on exit and put more power down.

The traction control *was* off. My point is, that combined with Sport+ on the throttle is a handful on low-grip surfaces.
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      11-13-2019, 01:04 PM   #38
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The traction control *was* off. My point is, that combined with Sport+ on the throttle is a handful on low-grip surfaces.
I'm sorry, I thought you were indicating you put it in Sport+ mode, which doesnt ACTUALLY turn everything off, just puts the light on to let you know its interfering less...but still interfering. If you were in Sport+ mode, there are still some of the nannies there limiting you. The only way to turn it all the way off is by pressing and holding the DSC button until it states that EVERYTHING is off, and I can tell you, definitively, that is the MUCH faster than running in Sport+.
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      11-13-2019, 01:55 PM   #39
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I'm sorry, I thought you were indicating you put it in Sport+ mode, which doesnt ACTUALLY turn everything off, just puts the light on to let you know its interfering less...but still interfering. If you were in Sport+ mode, there are still some of the nannies there limiting you. The only way to turn it all the way off is by pressing and holding the DSC button until it states that EVERYTHING is off, and I can tell you, definitively, that is the MUCH faster than running in Sport+.

I'm in an M2C. For autocross, I have my M2 button programmed to DSC off, throttle to Sport+ and steering to Sport+. Two taps of the button and I'm ready to play.
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      11-13-2019, 02:01 PM   #40
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I'm in an M2C. For autocross, I have my M2 button programmed to DSC off, throttle to Sport+ and steering to Sport+. Two taps of the button and I'm ready to play.
Ahhh fair enough =) Would be nice to have programmable modes for mine, but I suppose I can deal with what I have

Have been hearing murmurs theres a possibility they may put the M2C in BS with the M2...so if you do national events, I may be seeing you in grid next year
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      11-13-2019, 03:53 PM   #41
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I'm in an M2C. For autocross, I have my M2 button programmed to DSC off, throttle to Sport+ and steering to Sport+. Two taps of the button and I'm ready to play.
Same here but I've been using Sport mode throttle and leaving steering in comfort mode (or whatever it's called). I like how the we have two programmable M buttons as I have the other one set to use MDM mode for street driving.

By the way, I took advice from others on the board here at the O'fest autox about TPMS resetting. Rather than risk it having issues, I started a reset as I was in grid, and it never finished fully resetting for all my 6 runs, lol. I let a ton of air out of the tires too, started with 34 all around and tried to keep them there, so I think I ended up letting about 10psi total out of the fronts in order to hold about 34psi. TPMS never had an issue (like forcing DSC to come on) through the whole event.

I actually liked how well balanced the car was with a stock front swaybar and the 255/35-19, 275/35-19 RE71Rs. I have no plans to change it for now (which is something I can't recall ever feeling on any stock car I've autocrossed over the past 40+ years!).
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      11-13-2019, 05:21 PM   #42
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Have been hearing murmurs theres a possibility they may put the M2C in BS with the M2...so if you do national events, I may be seeing you in grid next year
Haven't heard that. I could almost see the logic of putting the M2C in AS, but not in conjunction with moving the M3/M4 from AS to BS. There isn't that much weight difference, and the M2C can't take as much tire.

Not that it matters. I'll be running in our region's "run what ya brung" class next year, since the SEB won't let us play in STU.

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      11-13-2019, 05:28 PM   #43
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Haven't heard that. I could almost see the logic of putting the M2C in AS, but not in conjunction with moving the M3/M4 from AS to BS. There isn't that much weight difference, and the M2C can't take as much tire.



Not that it matters. I'll be running in our region's "run what ya brung" class next year, since the SEB won't let use play in STU.
Keep an eye out...have also been hearing murmurs about STU possibly getting shaken up. I'd be hard pressed to believe they would put the M2C in there since you car can make WAY more power with a tune than mine...but who knows what they might do.

I wrote a letter a while back for an SST class for AS/BS/SS cars to play in thats supposedly getting a reply on the next fast track. Looking forward to my "Thank you for your input"
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      11-13-2019, 05:29 PM   #44
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By the way, I took advice from others on the board here at the O'fest autox about TPMS resetting. Rather than risk it having issues, I started a reset as I was in grid, and it never finished fully resetting for all my 6 runs, lol. I let a ton of air out of the tires too, started with 34 all around and tried to keep them there, so I think I ended up letting about 10psi total out of the fronts in order to hold about 34psi. TPMS never had an issue (like forcing DSC to come on) through the whole event.

Interestingly, I have not found TPMS intervention to be nearly the problem it was on my pre-LCI M2, even in the summer months.


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I actually liked how well balanced the car was with a stock front swaybar and the 255/35-19, 275/35-19 RE71Rs. I have no plans to change it for now (which is something I can't recall ever feeling on any stock car I've autocrossed over the past 40+ years!).
It's an amazingly capable car in stock form. That said, I'm hearing the siren call of Ohlins and camber plates.
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