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      03-12-2019, 05:27 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
"Complex machine has unforeseen reliability issue" is nothing new. Thank god for the enthusiasts and after market companies that can come up with fixes to problems years after the manufacturer's stopped warranting them.

Rod bearings and throttle actuators in S65, water pumps and carbon build up in N54, vanos and solenoid issues in S54... Even the W204 AMG C63 had a head gasket bolt problem and excess wear on the camshaft lobe and valve lifter and the engine wouldn't restart if it was "too hot" after a spirited drive. Just don't buy a TVR if you like to sleep easy

I'm going to get extended engine warranty on the off chance I might get a Spun Crank Hub. Otherwise drive it as it was designed to be driven
It's a little embarrassing that some of these even happen with the tools available to the engineers today. The rod bearings in particular, and to repeat it...

Vanos is at least something relatively complicated and has changed a lot over time. One would think they would know in simulation if the engine is going to eat rod bearings.
They're pushing the limits all the time though. It's got to be quiet when cruising, sound like a jet plane when on it, pull like a train from 0 rpm, rev all the way to 8000 rpm, use 5L of fuel per 100KMs and only create an exhaust gas output equal to that of an asthmatic sparrow.

Porsche had to recall the 991.1 GT3 multiple times due to the engine catching on fire, misfires etc. They ended up giving every owner a 10 year warranty on the engine. Not really an issue when you're selling only a low volume of that particular car.

I would think honouring 80,000 extended warranties on the F8x series when they make less margin than Porsche does on each GT3 might not be that commercially savvy.
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      03-12-2019, 07:12 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
They're pushing the limits all the time though. It's got to be quiet when cruising, sound like a jet plane when on it, pull like a train from 0 rpm, rev all the way to 8000 rpm, use 5L of fuel per 100KMs and only create an exhaust gas output equal to that of an asthmatic sparrow.

Porsche had to recall the 991.1 GT3 multiple times due to the engine catching on fire, misfires etc. They ended up giving every owner a 10 year warranty on the engine. Not really an issue when you're selling only a low volume of that particular car.

I would think honouring 80,000 extended warranties on the F8x series when they make less margin than Porsche does on each GT3 might not be that commercially savvy.
The .1 GT3 (MY2014) fire issues were very limited and the recall/stop sale occurred once; 3 or 4 reported engine fires iircc. Manufacturing defects to the Con Rod bolts were the cause. The recall addressed every car affected, which was basically all the 2014 MY with the 'E' engines. MY2015/2016 'F' and 'G' engines were unaffected; aside from possibly a few early MY2015s.

The 10 warranty was later offered because some valve train rocker arms were found to have manufacturing defects causing premature cam lobe wear. Again, limited but enough cases and concern for Porsche to step up and make .1 owner's very happy.
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      03-12-2019, 07:57 AM   #47
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Wow, this thread really covers a lot of topics. Toyota, Porsche, N54, N55 (all variants) S55, AMG, fires, company economics.
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      03-12-2019, 09:10 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
"Complex machine has unforeseen reliability issue" is nothing new. Thank god for the enthusiasts and after market companies that can come up with fixes to problems years after the manufacturer's stopped warranting them.

Rod bearings and throttle actuators in S65, water pumps and carbon build up in N54, vanos and solenoid issues in S54... Even the W204 AMG C63 had a head gasket bolt problem and excess wear on the camshaft lobe and valve lifter and the engine wouldn't restart if it was "too hot" after a spirited drive. Just don't buy a TVR if you like to sleep easy

I'm going to get extended engine warranty on the off chance I might get a Spun Crank Hub. Otherwise drive it as it was designed to be driven
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
"Complex machine has unforeseen reliability issue" is nothing new. Thank god for the enthusiasts and after market companies that can come up with fixes to problems years after the manufacturer's stopped warranting them.

Rod bearings and throttle actuators in S65, water pumps and carbon build up in N54, vanos and solenoid issues in S54... Even the W204 AMG C63 had a head gasket bolt problem and excess wear on the camshaft lobe and valve lifter and the engine wouldn't restart if it was "too hot" after a spirited drive. Just don't buy a TVR if you like to sleep easy

I'm going to get extended engine warranty on the off chance I might get a Spun Crank Hub. Otherwise drive it as it was designed to be driven
As an owner of both engines...2015 335 Msport
and a 2016 M3, I completely agree. I'm maintaining warranties and driving the hell out of both!
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      03-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Crank hub issue is not addressed by BMW. They switched to a new bed plate after MY2016 when Comp Package was introduced but there are still cases of spun crank hub happened to bone stock 2018 M3/M4s.
I can't understand why this crankhub issue hasn't been resolved with such a simple part modification as show in this video.
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      03-12-2019, 11:15 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpham View Post
I can't understand why this crankhub issue hasn't been resolved with such a simple part modification as show in this video.
What's done in that video is not a good fix and in fact it introduces new failure points. This has been discussed in another thread here and I totally agree with GreatWhiteM2 :

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2 View Post
Not sure what to say really......

They have drilled three holes into the timing sprocket which is already weak and now has three fracture points.

I have seen a similar fix done with two holes drilled in the timing sprocket and the timing sprocket cracked from the drill hole.
I'm not even planning to do anything beyond 500whp but for the peace of mind I just bought the full VTT spline lock kit, which doesn't require drilling and everything can be done for $1800-$2000 including parts&labor depending on the shop. If I wasn't planning to tune, I would just leave it alone and let the warranty handle it (if and when it happens).
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      03-12-2019, 12:43 PM   #51
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Signed up for this comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The rod bearings don't look so hot for such a low mileage engine... .

There haven't been any reports of rod bearing failure on S55 that I've seen yet though.

I never wrote a comment on here, but always followed those S55 problem discussions. All those useless fixing parts for the crank hub just hurt to see, if you know a thing or two about those engines yourself.

And now, before we ALSO start a S55 rod bearing sh*tstorm, I registered here to tell you something wich is not told in the clip.

This exact S55 was fueled with ethanol and beaten up very, very badly. Thats the reason for the overall condition and may also for the spun hub. S55 rod bearings are not an issue. They only look like this here, because this engine was abused. An S55 engine, that only ran on the Nordschleife, got its rod bearings replaced at 70k km and they were still not that bad. Therefore, for an everyday driver, those bearings will never get an issue.

I mean, look at all those guys putting ridiculous torque on their S55s, and they still hold up.

Btw, the crank hub and center screw design act as a "fuse" so the timing can be "twisted" a little bit. This can cause damage to the valves like here, wenn it is hard case, but it will prevent much bigger damage, that would occour with a fixed system. This engine maybe was money shiftet or there was a failure with the injection because of the ethanol. Something must have happend, that made a much to big pressure on the piston. With a fixed system, the rods would now may be outside of the block..

Cheers
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      03-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
No mechanical differences between any n55 engine regardless of what car/suv it was in
And yet, the M2 has different pistons and turbo/manifold, shares conrods and camshafts with the S55 (as well as the aforementioned sump/oil pump), the intake manifold is the same as the S55, and the crankshaft and head are shared with the M235i Racing...

Are you an F83 owner by any chance?
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      03-12-2019, 04:03 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
Where did you get this info regarding forged internals?
The M2's N55 does have forged internals but its a carry-over from the M235i N55 built.

The M2 N55 has unique pistons and an aluminum oil pan/suction from the S55, a turbo from a 335i and a electric blowoff valve from the N20.


https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...l-training.pdf

Page 23:
Off topic but first time I noticed that they mention the S55 also has an "overboost" most (406+37)?

Also, MDM puts everything in comfort.
Yes, I saw this also.

I never heard of the S55 having or needing the brief 'over-boost' function.

But I can't disputed an official training manual :

MDM does put the vehicle in comfort mode as oppose Sport + which changes the vehicles (throttle, DCT, etc) behavior..
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      03-12-2019, 06:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenracer View Post
I never wrote a comment on here, but always followed those S55 problem discussions. All those useless fixing parts for the crank hub just hurt to see, if you know a thing or two about those engines yourself.

And now, before we ALSO start a S55 rod bearing sh*tstorm, I registered here to tell you something wich is not told in the clip.

This exact S55 was fueled with ethanol and beaten up very, very badly. Thats the reason for the overall condition and may also for the spun hub. S55 rod bearings are not an issue. They only look like this here, because this engine was abused. An S55 engine, that only ran on the Nordschleife, got its rod bearings replaced at 70k km and they were still not that bad. Therefore, for an everyday driver, those bearings will never get an issue.

I mean, look at all those guys putting ridiculous torque on their S55s, and they still hold up.

Btw, the crank hub and center screw design act as a "fuse" so the timing can be "twisted" a little bit. This can cause damage to the valves like here, wenn it is hard case, but it will prevent much bigger damage, that would occour with a fixed system. This engine maybe was money shiftet or there was a failure with the injection because of the ethanol. Something must have happend, that made a much to big pressure on the piston. With a fixed system, the rods would now may be outside of the block..

Cheers
When it spins on stock cars, do you think that is that a bolt torque issue? I'm not sure what would cause it to be the fuse at stock power levels.
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      03-12-2019, 09:42 PM   #55
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Iím wondering if the bore spacing are the same between s55 and n55. That would be cool to build a stroker n55 or a destroked s55 for higher rpm punch.
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      03-13-2019, 10:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpenracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The rod bearings don't look so hot for such a low mileage engine... .

There haven't been any reports of rod bearing failure on S55 that I've seen yet though.

I never wrote a comment on here, but always followed those S55 problem discussions. All those useless fixing parts for the crank hub just hurt to see, if you know a thing or two about those engines yourself.

And now, before we ALSO start a S55 rod bearing sh*tstorm, I registered here to tell you something wich is not told in the clip.

This exact S55 was fueled with ethanol and beaten up very, very badly. Thats the reason for the overall condition and may also for the spun hub. S55 rod bearings are not an issue. They only look like this here, because this engine was abused. An S55 engine, that only ran on the Nordschleife, got its rod bearings replaced at 70k km and they were still not that bad. Therefore, for an everyday driver, those bearings will never get an issue.

I mean, look at all those guys putting ridiculous torque on their S55s, and they still hold up.

Btw, the crank hub and center screw design act as a "fuse" so the timing can be "twisted" a little bit. This can cause damage to the valves like here, wenn it is hard case, but it will prevent much bigger damage, that would occour with a fixed system. This engine maybe was money shiftet or there was a failure with the injection because of the ethanol. Something must have happend, that made a much to big pressure on the piston. With a fixed system, the rods would now may be outside of the block..

Cheers
Thanks for your first comment with good insight! I also echo what you say about the crank hub bolt serving as a fuse. Those who switch it to fixed bolt are asking for much greater engine problems at higher boosts.
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      03-14-2019, 08:20 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
No mechanical differences between any n55 engine regardless of what car/suv it was in
And yet, the M2 has different pistons and turbo/manifold, shares conrods and camshafts with the S55 (as well as the aforementioned sump/oil pump), the intake manifold is the same as the S55, and the crankshaft and head are shared with the M235i Racing...

Are you an F83 owner by any chance?
Fuck no I sold my f82 m4 after 5 months and sold my piece of shit OG m2 after 4 months.. both cars did not impress and reminded me of my old tuned 335i which was rather disappointing after spending 80k and 65k respectively. Both felt like turning my dads boat, no feedback what so ever and both had unnecessarily harsh rides. The short wheelbase of the m2 wasn't very confidence inspiring either..

I have owned my mint individual e92 m3 since I special ordered it back in 2013 and to this day it is hands down the best ///M car you can own right now. (Haven't driven m2c yet)
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      03-14-2019, 09:53 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcusem3 View Post
Fuck no I sold my f82 m4 after 5 months and sold my piece of shit OG m2 after 4 months.. both cars did not impress and reminded me of my old tuned 335i which was rather disappointing after spending 80k and 65k respectively. Both felt like turning my dads boat, no feedback what so ever and both had unnecessarily harsh rides. The short wheelbase of the m2 wasn't very confidence inspiring either..

I have owned my mint individual e92 m3 since I special ordered it back in 2013 and to this day it is hands down the best ///M car you can own right now. (Haven't driven m2c yet)
Interesting, but it's not apples to apples. I had a 2007 Lotus that would make your E92 M3 feel like a boat, but who cares. Neither the Lotus or your E92 can be sold in 2020 so it's pointless to talk about.
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      03-14-2019, 12:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The rod bearings don't look so hot for such a low mileage engine... .

There haven't been any reports of rod bearing failure on S55 that I've seen yet though.
The motor is a torque monster, not surprised at all. My buddy at Zakspeed had N55 bearings out near 75k and were into the copper. Will probably do mine around 75k.

As for spun crank hub - I want to know out of all reported cases, how many resulted in actual engine damage? Sounds like most just go into limp mode and require a replacement hub, no other damage. I only know of 1 with valve damage.
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      03-14-2019, 01:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
There are a few solutions out there that supposedly bulletproof the crank hub. I don't remember which vendors, but maximumpsi comes to mind. I'm guessing that anyone who wants 600whp+ out of their s55 is replacing the stock crank hub.

EDIT:

Looks like N54 & N55 engine owners should be scared too, according to Mr. Radowski's website, with tons of pictures:

https://maximumpsi.com/products/maxi...it-s55-n55-n54

And another, but Gintani doesn't mention N series engines:

http://gintani.com/product/gintani-f...-hub-solution/
We have a complete overview of the VTT SplineLock Crank Hub install on the M3/M4 side:

▀▄ eas | VTT "SplineLock" CrankHub Installation Overview for S55
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1561598
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      03-14-2019, 03:46 PM   #61
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I also highly recommend watching this video if anyone interested in learning more about crank hub design and why&how it can fail (Video title says N54 but N54/N55/S55 all share the same design and part):

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      03-16-2019, 07:01 AM   #62
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Having had a n54 engine 335i, and now an M4, I cant deny the performance of the new engine. But sound wise, I miss my old screamer.....S55 is loud and interesting sounding, but not pleasing to the ear!

Downpipes going on this weekend, hoping this helps!
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      03-19-2019, 10:40 AM   #63
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I read somewhere the Ghassan Automotive 135 had a complete failure at a race last week in Texas with the VTT spline lock installed.

Not sure what the actual failure was or if it had anything to do with the Spline lock system but am curious what caused the failure..
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      03-22-2019, 09:02 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The rod bearings don't look so hot for such a low mileage engine... .

There haven't been any reports of rod bearing failure on S55 that I've seen yet though.
I have a feeling rod bearings thé internet says look bad aren't actually in any danger of breaking
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