Quote:
Originally Posted by adc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn
The E36 had a listed curb weight of 3340.. and that was 22+ years ago at this point... And the E46 was 3415. So it's not like the M2 is all that fat in comparison after all these years if the CS weighed in actual as listed above at 3500. 718 GT4 is 3200 lbs, and the GTS 4.0 at 3166. Miata for lighweight with even the third gen sitting at only 2500...
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That was the Euro E36.
The US-spec E36 M3 was listed at 3219lbs with a 5sp manual. 300lbs over 20+ years isn't a huge amount if you look at it from one perspective. I think the Boxster/Caymans gained a similar amount in the intervening time (200-300lbs). Still, 3,500lbs with 450BHP is heavy on track. |
Some perspective (EURO-spec):
- E46 M3 (6MT) (2001) + E82 1M (6MT) (2011) + F87 M2 (6MT) (2015):
1,495kg / 3296lbs unladen | 1,570kg / 3461lbs DIN/EU;
- F87 M2C (6MT) (2018) + F87 M2 CS (6MT) (2019):
1,550kg / 3417lbs unladen | 1,625kg / 3583lbs DIN/EU
DIN/EU = 75kg / 165lbs are added for 1 driver & luggage.
Reposting a comment from the past:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
On a final note: a EURO-spec base M2 6MT weighs 1495 kg (unladen) (see the specs here); for a word of caution about unrealistic weight reduction expectations, read what BMW M engineer Jürgen Schwenker replied in a Spring 2011 interview regarding the 1M (see here or here): "Q: Would it not have been possible to reduce the weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé to closer to 1,400 kilos instead of the 1,570 kilos achieved? After all, a number of body parts had to be redeveloped anyway. What would have been the additional cost for the customer if the 1,400 kg target had been reached ?
A: It is unrealistic to expect a weight reduction of 170 kilos on an existing basic vehicle. The M3 CSL and M3 GTS show where the reasonable limits lie. It would be necessary to develop a completely new car from scratch – which would, of course, also mean a completely different price scale. We were determined to offer a real BMW M that would also allow newcomers to have some fun with the strongest letter in the world. That’s why we are choosing to go with intelligent lightweight construction methods, e.g. light wheels and specific avoidance of insulating mats. The chassis of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé also helps optimise weight. Both the two-joint front axle, as well as the five-link rear axle of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé are made almost completely from aluminium. Tubular stabilisers, axle guides made from forged aluminium and aluminium shock absorbers complete the lightweight concept for the wheel suspension. The weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé is precisely the same as that of the previous generation of the BMW M3, with comparable output and much higher torque. The vehicle weighs 1,495kg (DIN kerb weight) (with 90% full fuel tank without driver and luggage); the 1,570 kg specified are the EU standard weight (including 75 kg for driver and luggage)." |
Of course BMW can still shave off some weight here and there with light-weight materials and by deleting some creature comforts, but they can't fundamentally rebuild the car and cannot make production cost and sales price prohibitively high. In the end, the main purpose remains to make profits and, hence, to find customers who are prepared to pay for a car positioned in a pretty competitive market segment featuring customers easily (s)hopping between brands. |
On a general note, beware about official weight figures from the past: rules for car weight figures have been tightened. In the past most high performance car manufacturers perfected the art of listing the lowest weight possible with car configurations that almost no customer chose, for low weight bragging rights purposes. Regulations forced the car industry to indicate more realistic figures as regards car weight, fuel consumption, range and CO
2 emissions.
For a good example, see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Remember Andreas Preuninger recently trying to talk his way out in interviews when tackling the topic of the 80kg weight increase - on paper - of the 718 GT4 (2019) compared to the 981 GT4 (2015) (1420 kg vs 1340 kg), emphasizing that it's only about 30kg extra rather than 80kg extra.
See from 13:28 to 15:21 in this video (comparing spec sheets: "it's deceiving, deceiving").
Fair enough, but that implies that the 1340kg figure quoted by Porsche back in 2015 for the bare-bones 981 GT4 was actually not representative for GT4 cars sold 'in real life' and would be around 1390kg when weighed with nowadays standards.
Last June, in the Sport Auto interview, AP also disclosed that for 'delete' features "the take-rate is at maximum 2%": see from 12:51 to 13:25 in this video.
So though the 1340 kg figure may be technically true for the 981 GT4 and back then the car could have been ordered that way, but that won't be the usual GT4 sold 'in real life' back then.
Good thing that regulations force car manufacturers to provide figures (weight, fuel consumption, range, emissions) that are closer to 'real life'. |