So many assumptions about Tesla here. Let's clear some of them up. I'll be as honest as possible with my experience and that of others' I know.
I was a BMW M guy for decades prior to buying my Model 3 LR AWD (Long Range, Dual Motor AWD).
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider
I think the Model 3 is boring looking at best. The Tesla forum is like a cult group. They call it the M3...bwahahah!
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Tesla forums can definitely be cultish, just like any other forums, but I agree that they're overly political and biased. Undoubtedly part of that is due to being defensive from all of the unfair hatred and animosity.
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Originally Posted by Project_F87
Show me a tesla that can go on a circuit and perform like the M2C for multiple sessions and I'll change my name (catching fire is auto DQ)
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Show me all of the people who buy cars and take them to the track. The track comparisons are useful to show the limits of the car, but that's not how they're used. No matter how fast you think you are on the street, the track is a whole different animal. Even if you do track your car, congratulations, you're one in a million.
I actually do track, as an expert, but I have different toys for that
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Originally Posted by mtoosexy
Can I get a Tesla with a 6spd manual and a decent sounding exhaust? If so, I will go test drive one now.  |
No, but you can get it with amazing acceleration that's as responsive as your right foot - no lag of any kind. You have to drive it to appreciate it. No exhaust note, but I guess it can be pumped into the cabin like BMW does
On a serious note, I thought I'd miss the sound and on rare occasion I do, but in general, don't miss it. Everything is nice and quiet so I can enjoy my music. It's not at all disruptive to pass people on the streets like they're standing still, without any drama. I actually love the stealthiness now.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
You might have to plug it in...for 10 or 12 hours...will that be a problem?
This electric stuff might take hold in the future, but for now, it's nowhere as convenient, reusable, or reliable as an ICE setup.
How's that nationwide Tesla recharging (as you take a nap) network coming?  that shit isn't persuasive to the average American driver (thankfully) |
Depends on what you're plugging it into and how much energy you need. I find 'electric stuff' way more convenient. Now, if you drive more than ~200-300 miles often, then I agree, using a Supercharger (or destination charger) is a pain. They don't exist everywhere, sometimes you have to go out of your way and you have to wait to get the batteries charged. Luckily, most of us don't drive those distances often.
So far, the furthest I've had to drive was ~110-miles each way for business and my car handled that no problem. This wouldn't be my first choice for a cross-country trip, but for a typical use-case it's perfect. My car charges while I'm at work or in my garage, while I'm asleep. I typically charge it once or twice per week. In retrospect, definitely way more convenient than going to fuel up at the gas station.
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER
But that's where the appeal ends. No tire squeel, no sideways drifting, no on power over steer. Outside of straight line performance there is no fun.
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Performance variant does offer this, if that's what you're looking for, however if that's your criteria, then maybe Tesla isn't the right car - it's not for everyone.
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Originally Posted by TMR013
Not a good comparison IMO.
Yes, everybody knows, electric will kick ass off the line over an ICE, might even win in a 1/2 mile drag. But thrown in curves and laps, as other people have pointed out unless you add pricey mods, it probably won't win. Or be as fun to drive. If nothing else when everybody else is headed to the bar at the end of the day, electric still has to sit and wait a couple hours.
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I'm pretty sure if you throw curves in, it still wins - and even if it doesn't, I'll go back to my earlier question: how many people track/race their cars?
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Originally Posted by TMR013
More power to people who like the Tesla. I've seriously thought about electric for a commuter. But it's meant to be point A-B transportation, nothing more. Will never be more than a niche enthusiast car.
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Ironically, I believe it's the opposite. Cars like the BMW M2 are the niche enthusiast cars and the sales figures bear this out as well. That's not a knock against one or the other. Undoubtedly one of the reasons many people here own M2's is for the 'exclusivity' of sorts.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
And how many times can you do that, before the batteries are drained or overheated?
I'm just saying - it's sort of a one trick pony.
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I feel that torque every single day that I drive the car. I'm not even talking about max-G's under acceleration, I'm talking about just smoothly pulling away at any speed without drama.
If you're talking about a drag-strip scenario, ICE have similar heating issues. But again, I doubt many people here bought their cars to take to the drag strip - there are better cars for that.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
Drive itself? Win a drag race?
Are you sure you’re in the right place? Most enthusiasts care about the driving aspect that these cars deliver...
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Model 3 has pretty good handling. It does feel a bit heavier than the M2, but that's only when I drive one right after another - I don't feel it otherwise. Ironically, I find the steering in the M2 a little more sloppy (my Model 3 steering is set to Sport). There's also more "to do" on the M2 (manual), so it's more engaging and that's fun once in a while, but most of the time, for most people, Model 3 is better IMO.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
My F80 can go 310 miles on a tank...except when I “plug” it in more more range, it takes about 5 minutes to be ready for another 310 miles...like I said above, the electric car thing might take off, but the tech is going to have to match or exceed the ICE experience that most people expect out of their cars.
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EV's charge while you sleep, so you can wake up every day to full range, if that's what your desire.
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Originally Posted by Thescout13
Although #4 almost never happens. Spend some time on the TM3 forums and you'll see that it never hits that range, especially the performance variant. Agree with the rest.
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I would have agreed with you, until my experience this past weekend.
The aforementioned business trip that I took was around 220-miles round trip, but actually used up about 250-indicated-miles. Keep in mind, I was driving my usual - fast acceleration, ~75-85mph on the highway, etc. I'm not a hyper-miler and actually drive this car more aggressively because it's so easy to do so without drama. But, I digress...
This past weekend, we went boating and were going to take my wife's car so I didn't charge mine. Last minute we decided to take my car (love autopilot on long highway stretches). Don't recall the last time I charged, but I had a small buffer, so what the hell...
I'll spare you the long drawn out story, but bottom line is this: I drove it with normal acceleration (not heavy as usual) and had autopilot at around 65-70mph on the highway in the right lane. However, it should be noted I had 5-people + supplies and A/C blasting.
Driving "normally," my range was actually better than advertised. I used up ~55-60 miles indicated to drive 65 actual miles according to navigation.
So if you have to, you can definitely get good fuel economy and range out of the car, but that's just not the way I drive - mainly because I don't have to
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
Maybe it just has a really loooooooong countdown before taking off then. Have the federal tax subsidies made people choose EV cars over ICE options in droves? The free plug installs in garages? The free power if you plug it in overnight?
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Tax subsidies are being phased out, almost gone and despite that, Tesla just delivered a record number of vehicles in the last quarter. Subsidies are/were there to spur innovation and investment. I'm actually not a fan of them - but that's story for another thread.
I don't pay for power at work, but I do at home. To give you an idea, one day I actually did the math. I drove ~115-120-miles and made a note of how many kW I used up. I then calculated that at my (renewable) electric rate, that day of driving cost me about ~$2.50-$2.75 in electricity. Not bad.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
Like I said, until there’s 1) faster charging, like way faster, 2) a nationwide network of charging options so you can drive farther than 200-300 miles, and 3) empirical data that ownership costs are economically equivalent to an ICE vehicle, you’re not going to see widespread adoption, at least in the US.
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The issues with long-range driving aren't issues for everyone. Like I said earlier, if you do drive more than ~200-300 miles in a day, then maybe this isn't the right car for you, but let's not be ignorant and think that other cars don't have their trade-offs. Model S now has a range of almost 400-miles, but is also much more expensive.
Empirical data actually shows a lower cost of ownership.
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
And can you take the battery car down to the local mechanic if something goes wrong? 
That's my point - overall ownership costs still remain higher...especially if the batteries need to be replaced.
Just my $.02...
And I live in Chicago - no charging stations by me...maybe it's better on the coasts...but there's a lot of space in the middle of the country where this shit won't fly, for a long time. |
Do you research your information or just post what you think? TCO is lower, batteries are proven to be very reliable in the long-term (are additionally constantly improved) and Tesla has mobile service. They can come to your house and fix the problem or they can come pick up the car, leave you a loaner Tesla and put yours on a flat-bed.
Regarding charging stations, if you rely on those to charge (i.e. you can't charge at home), then I wouldn't recommend an EV for you. Middle of the country has a much lower population density and I agree this may not be the right car there either, except where population is concentrated in/around big cities. Which is believe it or not, where most of the people live by volume. Either way, that's not our problem. I don't choose my car based on its proliferation throughout rural-America. I'm sure there aren't many BMW M2's there either
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
No data, I was just asking the question - but with that being said, I don’t see advertisements for Tesla battery maintenance anywhere. Or other manufacturers either. I’m not suggesting the batteries or the car is faulty in any way - I’m wondering how easily a normal person can locate someone to work on the car, besides the dealer, should something go wrong. That’s the total ownership cost to which I refer.
I see few Teslas around here - maybe I’m not in the techy part of the area...who knows.
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By merely "wondering" or just asking question you are in fact suggesting things. Tesla has been a leader in battery technology and there are all kinds of stats published about their batteries. Many of those stats are from fleet vehicles which get charged to 100%, discharged to nearly 0% and are charged at high current at Superchargers. This is the equivalent of you driving your car on the track ALL THE TIME. Despite that, the batteries are very robust. With normal usage patterns, expect the battery to last decades, however they will degrade with time, as does everything.
Keep in mind that current stats are on legacy battery packs and legacy chemistry. Tesla has since (2018 for 3rd generation) updated their chemistry, monitoring, charging computers, etc.
If you're really interested in Tesla batteries, I recommend watching the following:
Part 1:
Part 2:
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Originally Posted by dmboone25
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Did you read the links or just did a quick Google search?
Let's look at the CR data. They don't recommend it based on trim/paint info, especially based on other and older models. Things that are fixed after the car is purchased. My car had paint chips on it during transport - as do other cars. I brought it the same body shop that painted my friends' brand new BMW M2 (they're a Tesla certified shop) and no problems. I can assure you nothing is falling off.
Tesla works a little differently than standard manufacturers... there's not a model-year-run, they keep improving with each and every vehicle they make. There have been a number of revisions to the Model 3, yet they aren't offered as different years. Some of the mechanical changes off the top of my head are: updated (v2) suspension, softer rear bench, increased current out of the USB ports. Many of the revisions have also come as software updates. Absolutely everything on the car is electronic, so everything is controlled by computers and in turn OTA updates.
This is both good and bad. The good: when Consumer Reports didn't recommend the Model 3 based on long emergency braking distances, Tesla issued an update and improved mechanical braking (in favor or trying to extract as much energy out of regenerative braking as possible). The UI keeps getting better, I keep getting features I didn't have before, most recently they've updated their PWM firmware to give all cars 5% extra power. The bad is that the experience changes. In theory for the better, but sometimes the features are more BETA than production. However, Tesla rolls them out, collects information/gets feedback and improves on them. It's more of an iterative/agile SDLC model, it's completely unlike normal car production. The car is constantly updated and improved.
Again, this can be both good and bad.
Sorry for such a long first post... but hopefully it helps settle a few issues. I'm obviously very passionate about my car and was considering the BMW M2, BMW M240i, BMW 3-Series, Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti and Porsche Cayman S prior to buying my Model 3. All-in-all I would buy it again over the competition - especially after driving some of those cars post-Tesla-ownership. It's a paradigm shift that's hard to explain. Besides a few annoying quirks, I love the car...
Thanks for reading if you've made it this far
