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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > 2016 BMW M2 (F87) Spotted on Nurburgring and Streets!! (VIDEO added)

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      05-09-2014, 07:57 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The M2 will be about beefed up internals, & a track culture.
(ie: corvette)
Why do some people think they are going to get a 'track' car from the standard M2, just not going to happen. There are just too many M buyers out there who just want the most special vehicle BMW make in a particular class without a harsh ride, stripped out interior etc. A track car may come later a la CSL or GTS but not initially.

I'm not too concerned about which engine goes into this car, if it makes it an enjoyable car to drive, then its worth buying, if not I will look at the RS3 / R400 / A45.

Having said that, its amazing what a decent set of wheels and flared guards has done to this test mule, the stance looks insane.

I wont buy a car on spec, so I will wait till I have driven the M2 / R400 / RS3 and then have the difficult decision of which is the best 'beast'.
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      05-09-2014, 08:17 AM   #156
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I'll be a future buyer for sure. This does bring back memories of the first 1M prototype I saw and the time it took from the first pic to my delivery was agonizing.
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      05-09-2014, 08:41 AM   #157
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Not too excited by the test mule pictures but I'm sure it'll look aggressive in production form.

It's funny reading the N55 bashing though. We just went through this (and continue to go through it) with the S65 fanboys vehemently against the S55.
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      05-09-2014, 08:53 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlitosz View Post
How can you say that when SCOTT just said it's all about what's "under the hood"?
I actually said what's underneath.
The engine is just but one area that can be found underneath.
The engine will be no good if the rest of the car cannot work in synergy.
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      05-09-2014, 08:54 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Not too excited by the test mule pictures but I'm sure it'll look aggressive in production form.

It's funny reading the N55 bashing though. We just went through this (and continue to go through it) with the S65 fanboys vehemently against the S55.
I for one was not "bashing" the N55. I observe that the M division using an aging engine from the standard BMW lineup is not a typical move; ironically the N54 in 1M was one of only two other times they've ever done it that I know about.

And, given that they will have the B58 available to them at the time this car releases, which will provide the same power and better fuel economy...using the N55 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It is a great motor, for sure, and at 375hp it would definitely be powerful enough.
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      05-09-2014, 08:58 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I for one was not "bashing" the N55. I observe that the M division using an aging engine from the standard BMW lineup is not a typical move; ironically the N54 in 1M was one of only two other times they've ever done it that I know about.

And, given that they will have the B58 available to them at the time this car releases, which will provide the same power and better fuel economy...using the N55 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It is a great motor, for sure, and at 375hp it would definitely be powerful enough.
The thing is though you're making a lot of assumptions about a NEW version of an engine we know next to nothing about. You don't know it'll have worse fuel economy than the B58.

Using a modified N55 makes all the sense in the world. I'd rather have an engine that already has all the kinks worked out than a new engine who's problems we have yet to find.

I'd also be willing to bet that this N55 version has quite a few features that the S55 has as well.
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      05-09-2014, 09:07 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
It could be more than this, but this is at least relevant. The brake calipers are mounted to the strut housing, so the brakes being in the same position could indicate component sharing between the M3/4 and the M2.

Two caveats:

1) This is an early prototype, so that could change over the long haul.

2) Similar brake positioning doesn't mean we can say they share components with 100% certainty.
OK thanks Bradley, I was sort of wondering if the position of the caliper on the discs made any braking performance difference? i.e 11 o'clock vs say 2 o'clock. I just thought it was a rotating mass being clamped and it wouldn't matter where is was clamped.
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      05-09-2014, 09:20 AM   #162
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Wow, this thread is reminiscent of the early discussions about the 1M.

At least we aren't speculating about the name of this car...
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      05-09-2014, 09:22 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
The thing is though you're making a lot of assumptions about a NEW version of an engine we know next to nothing about. You don't know it'll have worse fuel economy than the B58.
I suppose I don't know that...but you wanna make a bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I'd also be willing to bet that this N55 version has quite a few features that the S55 has as well.
This I agree with...I tried to suggest a couple pages back that a M version of an engine derived from the N55 might be in the cards. Somebody told me I needed to do more research.
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      05-09-2014, 09:29 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I suppose I don't know that...but you wanna make a bet?

This I agree with...I tried to suggest a couple pages back that a M version of an engine derived from the N55 might be in the cards. Somebody told me I needed to do more research.

I never denied an M version derived from the N55 exists - that is the S55 and has been widely known and discussed.

Someone mentioned an N55 ( Non M) with forged internals, more cooling etc. and you said the below:

"Which is essentially what the S55 in the F80/F82 is, no?"

And I told you that the S55 is different ( most obviously it has two turbos) and if you research you can see the differences. I wasnt trying to be rude as you took it but the forums and google for that matter are a huge resource where many of the questions like the one above can quickly be answered yourself.

If the M2 had an S55 it would have been announced with one and everyone would have cancelled their m3/4 orders and waited for the car they really want.
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      05-09-2014, 09:38 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I suppose I don't know that...but you wanna make a bet?
I hope it has better fuel economy because if it doesn't, then what's the point of developing a new engine?

On the other hand, the B58 will not have more power then this new N55.

I still see absolutely no reason for BMW to release a new base engine and an upgraded version of the engine at the same time. BMW is taking what they know and I'm sure will make it even more fabulous than it already is.
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      05-09-2014, 09:49 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
If the M2 had an S55 it would have been announced with one and everyone would have cancelled their m3/4 orders and waited for the car they really want.
I don't think the S55 itself will be in the M2, but I am also skeptical that a basic run of the mill N55 will be.

If BMW uses the N55, I think it will be heavily modified - which it will probably need to be in order to make 375 HP. Let's face it, they've had a lot of time to get it there already and the 6 cylinder competition is now getting a little ahead of it in terms of power. I bought one anyway.
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      05-09-2014, 09:52 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I hope it has better fuel economy because if it doesn't, then what's the point of developing a new engine?
Exactly. If they can get 375HP out of the N55, let's have it!
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      05-09-2014, 09:52 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I don't think the S55 itself will be in the M2, but I am also skeptical that a basic run of the mill N55 will be.

If BMW uses the N55, I think it will be heavily modified - which it will probably need to be in order to make 375 HP. Let's face it, they've had a lot of time to get it there already and the 6 cylinder competition is now getting a little ahead of it in terms of power. I bought one anyway.
if that was your point than a few others and I must have misunderstood you. We all agree it will be a beefed up N55 w/ better cooling to handle the tuning.
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      05-09-2014, 09:59 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Exactly. If they can get 375HP out of the N55, let's have it!
Considering you can get 375 HP now out of a N55 with a simple piggyback, I don't see that as the challenge.

And with all the technology (such as anti-lag) and extra cooling developed for the S55, I don't see this being difficult at all for BMW to do.
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      05-09-2014, 10:12 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
i'm still baffled at how ppl fail open book tests...how is it possible to even get one question wrong....always wondered that in college or in hs...everyone should be getting 100%.
We dreaded open book tests where I went to college. You usually got a week and could use any resources available (except for collaborating with other students). The questions were like, "Here's the situation. Design a bridge for it. Go ahead and use your books if you feel like because if you don't know the principles backwards and forwards by this point they ain't gonna help. Good luck with that."
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      05-09-2014, 10:19 AM   #171
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#1 on the ///M2 list at my local dealer. No deposit needed. Bam!
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      05-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #172
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#1 on the ///M2 list at my local dealer. No deposit needed. Bam!
nice
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      05-09-2014, 10:40 AM   #173
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And the saving begins.
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      05-09-2014, 12:27 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
the BMW 1M came out in 2011 with an N54 after the N55 had already replaced the n54 in all of the other 35i cars except for the 335is and z435is.

Lots of people were really upset when the 1m debuted with the n54 instead of an 'M Motor'. It is no surprise to me the M2 will come with a tuned n55.
It was always my sense, though, that the N54 was a tuneable beast and BMW knew it, perfect for those applications. I feel less like that about the N55. But, as you say, BMW has done something like this before and they are changing a lot of things these days.

And again, I have no personal qualm with the N55; I think it's a great motor. But apparently the B58 is going to have 375HP as well...I wonder why not just use that? More of a curiosity than an argument position.
Where have you got the info on the B58 from please?
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      05-09-2014, 12:46 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Where have you got the info on the B58 from please?
Totally unofficial. Take a look at this, about the next generation 5-series, and you might have to let your browser translate it to English. It says:

"The six-cylinder lives in the coming 5 Series continues - and stronger than ever! Granted, the new four-cylinder dig the entry-level six-cylinder from the water. But it makes the six-cylinder V8 life increasingly difficult. The new series of six (B57/B58) combine a major increase in power and top torque with an average fuel savings of ten percent."

...and the expected 375hp is listed in the table below.
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      05-09-2014, 02:32 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Totally unofficial. Take a look at this, about the next generation 5-series, and you might have to let your browser translate it to English. It says:

"The six-cylinder lives in the coming 5 Series continues - and stronger than ever! Granted, the new four-cylinder dig the entry-level six-cylinder from the water. But it makes the six-cylinder V8 life increasingly difficult. The new series of six (B57/B58) combine a major increase in power and top torque with an average fuel savings of ten percent."

...and the expected 375hp is listed in the table below.
It seems puzzling that they wouldn't use their newest platform at first, but when you think about it, there are good reasons to use the N55.

Engineering in engine building isn't advancing at nearly the rate it used to. Most advancements these days are actually in the components, not in the core engine design. Things like direct injection, more advanced turbocharging, and valve timing technology. All of these are available in the N55.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that the differences between the N55 and B58 that make that jump from 300 HP to (a speculated) 375 HP could also be applied (easily) to the N55. The difference being that the N55 is near the end of its life-cycle. Many N55 parts have been through several revisions. It's an engine that the engineers know very well.

Also, don't ignore the accounting. BMW has developed forged internals for the basic N55 dimensions for the S55 engine. Swapping over parts of the N55, but skipping the more expensive twin-turbo setup allows them to take advantage of economies of scale. That's very important on cars with production number this low. Combining M2 and M3/4 parts costs could nearly double the number of units used. That's significant.

I think it comes down to those two factors 1) the N55 is a "known quantity", and 2) cost sharing between the F80/F82 and the F87.
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