[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

I'd love to know how your buying a car and making a profit. Unless that car is worth 120% the original value, your not making any profit.

Equity on a depreciating asset is not profit.

OOPS!

Just woke up and was having a cigarette with sleepy eyes and foggy brain. Not profit.

Put $15 down. Drive the car 3 years $600/mo. Sell for $35. Pay off loan. Get back $21.6 after paying off loan.

You just drove the car for 3 years for your initial down payment. Unless something harsh happens.

Am I missing something else?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by remydlc

That's the worst advice ever! You must work for a dealership or BMW. If someone killed your family, best revenge is to get them get a balloon loan.

See my post! Lol I was still foggy. You can make a down, have low payments, sell the car before lump sum! And be in way less than a lease. No?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by JS919

Make a profit!
Having equity at the time you sell is a lot different than making a profit. Making a profit would be selling it in three year for more than the total gross cost, including, tax, interest, insurance, and registration. I don't see that happening. I know I really don't need to explain what a profit is, except for that one person.

I don't know what I was saying. I'm awake now. LOL

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by rjd598

please pass whatever it is you're smoking. i would like some

Drinking, then trying to make sense while waking up early and first thing you do is jump to conclusion and post on phone half asleep. That's still not good as a high though.

But holy shit that was bad

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Was just about to say the same. Best of luck in your car search and financial decisions hope you get a good deal for yourself. We are quite obviously talking past each other and are both probably 100% right just not understanding the other's point.

Ok but I got a new car last year so not in the market... I think you may have not seen my posts a little earlier.

[yousefnjr]

With S55 and CSL rumors, and LCI around the corner, I wouldn't bet on a high resale value for first year models. May end up like the S52 Z3M...

[pimp4cheddar]

Originally Posted by JS919

Sorry, I totally disagree. The big picture to me is actual cost to own the vehicle. If you lease a vehicle with the residual at 49% and its worth 60% as you near the lease end, you are fool to turn it in. You'd be better off trading it in or paying it off and selling it. In this case your real cost is depreciation and money factor. The residual is meaningless unless the vehicle is worth equal to or less than the residual at lease end. What matters to me is the actual cost of ownership and the money factor is going play into that.

You're taking a gamble on a what if - 3 years from now.

The residual is everything for someone leasing. Who knows what the resale value will be on this car in 3 years. You're hedging that it'll be higher than the expected residual value when the lease ends.

If it's higher - than you trade or sell and make a few dollars before lease ends

If it's lower - you're fucked lol


Residual, Money Factor and Tax = Actual Cost Of Ownership

Everything else is pixie dust that you're trying to determine 3 years too soon.

This lease is terrible and BMW is simply having this be a finance car only for two reasons:

1) They have no idea how the market will react once this is in commerce
2) They have no idea how the resale will be for this car considering they may be tracked hard, etc... so they hedge on being overly conservative.


Bottom line is nobody on here has a clue as to what these will sell for in 3 years, people can only go based off lease rates. This car is massively produced - it is NO 1M...

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

And FWIW all the M3/M4 demo cars sold at launch too so that not special. My dealer still has a waiting list 3 months long for an M3 allocation.

fyi-as for the demo- consider the context and the time. Try to get a Demo M2 right now and no one will give it to you. My CA pulled strings, taking a demo from another dealer to allocate for me when there were no cars and no demos for 3-4 months. I am from SoCal, where people queued up like a food truck line ready to write their checks. Car was new and taken off the boat, and i got it UNDER Msrp when dealers were charging 5k markups...

CA relationships are key to getting things done.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar

You're taking a gamble on a what if - 3 years from now.

The residual is everything for someone leasing. Who knows what the resale value will be on this car in 3 years. You're hedging that it'll be higher than the expected residual value when the lease ends.

If it's higher - than you trade or sell and make a few dollars before lease ends

If it's lower - you're fucked lol


Residual, Money Factor and Tax = Actual Cost Of Ownership

Everything else is pixie dust that you're trying to determine 3 years too soon.

This lease is terrible and BMW is simply having this be a finance car only for two reasons:

1) They have no idea how the market will react once this is in commerce
2) They have no idea how the resale will be for this car considering they may be tracked hard, etc... so they hedge on being overly conservative.


Bottom line is nobody on here has a clue as to what these will sell for in 3 years, people can only go based off lease rates. This car is massively produced - it is NO 1M...

If after 3 years the actual value of the car is 40%, the only person fucked is the person who financed the car. The person who leased is still locked into the 51%, not matter what happens to the car. They could be in a sever accident that lowers it down to 30% and they still walk away at the end of lease.

Leasing provides you with less risk.

[guydude]

Originally Posted by minimised_S

u'd rather get a 997 to a M2 at that price point.

997? i can get a 991.2 for $1000/month....Shame on you BMW....

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by guydude

997? i can get a 991.2 for $1000/month....Shame on you BMW....

Yeah, I am really thinking about jumping ship for Jaguar or Porsche. Have an appointment at the local jag dealer and if they can put me in a F Type R for under $1k a month, bye bye M2.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yeah, I am really thinking about jumping ship for Jaguar or Porsche. Have an appointment at the local jag dealer and if they can put me in a F Type R for under $1k a month, bye bye M2.

Good luck. They were talking $1,400+ when I last inquired about a reasonably well equipped F Type R.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Good luck. They were talking $1,400+ when I last inquired about a reasonably well equipped F Type R.

There are three guys in the M4 forum that leased for under $1k. One guy got $901. You are probably getting screwed because you are in Florida, but I'm in Kentucky. March in Kentucky luxury sports car dealers are desperate.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

There are three guys in the M4 forum that leased for under $1k. One guy got $901. You are probably getting screwed because you are in Florida, but I'm in Kentucky. March in Kentucky luxury sports car dealers are desperate.

Good deal for you. I walked away from Jaguar and went with the M4.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by guydude

997? i can get a 991.2 for $1000/month....Shame on you BMW....

991.2 for $1000? With all four wheels included??

Share please

[GFK007]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yeah, I am really thinking about jumping ship for Jaguar or Porsche. Have an appointment at the local jag dealer and if they can put me in a F Type R for under $1k a month, bye bye M2.

F Type R is in another league. That car is up with 911 S and the m6.

[LBBDrew]

Originally Posted by GFK007

F Type R is in another league. That car is up with 911 S and the m6.

All of the aforementioned cars getting compared here are in another league. Gives you a good sense of just how brutal the M2 is going to be to lease...

[Frank_NJ]

Originally Posted by jstnstr

Ha wow. Cheaper to lease an M3.

That's why I might jump ship and get a M4 instead

[pruettfan]

Read an article today in a industry journal. Manufacturers are all worried about the record number of cars being leased and the potential glut of lease returns that are devalued as a result. One of the strategies to manage that risk according to the article is to reduce the residual values, the manufacturers are concerned that this change will result in lower sales/leases so we will probably see each manufacture take a different tact but looking at M3/M4 residuals recently and the M2 residual it seems BMW is headed in the direction of reducing the residuals to protect themselves.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This whole thread is full of useless crap. If you're paying $800 in principle every month for 36 months, that's almost $30,000 after three years. Who is going to sell their three year old M2 for $26,000? No one.

You could likely sell it for $40,000 which means your buyout from BMW would allow you to pocket almost $14,000. Pretty sure you will get more than 40 but let's just keep it simple. $14,000 over three years is nearly $400 a month. So it's almost as if you're only paying $5-600 a month for the lease.

Most BMW leases you pay and you get nothing at the end. With this lease if you decide to walk away at 36 months, you're likely pocketing a lot of money. Shit, you could walk at 24 months and still come out with cash.

Well explained, That's the other side of the coin. Thing is most people will rather save money up front and for those that would consider buying the car out at lease end it makes it damn near impossible due to the opportunity cost.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Read an article today in a industry journal. Manufacturers are all worried about the record number of cars being leased and the potential glut of lease returns that are devalued as a result. One of the strategies to manage that risk according to the article is to reduce the residual values, the manufacturers are concerned that this change will result in lower sales/leases so we will probably see each manufacture take a different tact but looking at M3/M4 residuals recently and the M2 residual it seems BMW is headed in the direction of reducing the residuals to protect themselves.

What else leases out as good as BMW? I have looked into Audi and Mercedes neither lease out as good. That is one thing BMW held above its competition, along with driving dynamics. If they lose that. I think it will hurt BMW.

[Aloha Joe]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

What else leases out as good as BMW? I have looked into Audi and Mercedes neither lease out as good. That is one thing BMW held above its competition, along with driving dynamics. If they lose that. I think it will hurt BMW.

It may hurt BMW new car sales but it may help BMW Leasing, both of which I assume are ultimately owned by BMW.

Basically what pruettfan reported is, if BMW leasing ends up stuck with a whole bunch of 60% residual cars. Dealers may not take them to sell, due to the fact that they can't sell them for high enough above the 60% residual to make a profit. Then the leasing department would have to sell it to the dealers at a loss.

I believe this goes in cycles, when BMW dealers don't have enough good used BMW's to sell, residuals could go higher. When they have ample supply, residuals go lower.