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      06-06-2018, 01:40 PM   #23
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I could very well be wrong and would be great for them if I am I just don't think we're there yet.
I mean did you look up the numbers? I admittedly didn't, but I do know the rough numbers for sales volumes in this segment (which I shared in my earlier post) as well as the fact that Tesla has said they are building about 3500 Model 3 per week now. Based no that knowledge, the graph seems very reasonable to me. Audi and Lexus do not sell nearly as much volume as BMW and Mercedes typically do, so it is very possible that even when combined they were outsold by the Model 3.
Yeah I haven't had a chance either and it seems this is a very recent thing with new data. Just didn't gut feel seem right to me and the graph was so vague in terms of labels and sourcing I immediately discounted it as creative marketing crap. If they turned the corner that's good news then.

They have historically played fast and loose with how they talk about things, not necessarily the same level of detail we're accustomed to.
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      06-06-2018, 01:54 PM   #24
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Bloomberg has been tracking Model 3 sales. They must get production up before other brands get in the game.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/
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      06-06-2018, 02:08 PM   #25
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It read somewhere that a significant portion of the 25% who cancelled, upgraded to the base Model S instead of waiting. So its a win for Tesla since thats a higher margin car.
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      06-06-2018, 02:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by camelot95 View Post
but unsurprising i would think. what made the 3 series special in the past: heavenly steering? gone. manual transmission? gone (effectively, especially with upcoming generation). spartan yet functional interior? gone. tight proportions? gone. the 3 series is now a tech package surrounded by car
The F30 interior was a vast improvement over the E90, and the increased proportions actually helped sales. I agree with the steering, but the demand for the manual is infinitesimal. The real reason the 3 series was special was because of the driving dynamics. The reason it's losing marketshare is that it's dated, and the driving dynamics have taken a back seat.
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      06-06-2018, 02:22 PM   #27
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Current 3 series is junk.. not surprising.
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      06-06-2018, 02:42 PM   #28
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Current 3 series is junk.. not surprising.
It certainly is. Ours has lost 65% of its retail price over 26k miles and 32 months. The market clearly sees it as a loser. So glad We leased it and didn't buy it. A $1.40/mile is depreciation I'd expect for a much more expensive car.

The truly scary thing is that there a few current BMW's that drive even worse than the F30. The new 5er and X3 bode well, but at the same time, the X1, X2 and current "Mini"'s are horrible to drive.
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      06-06-2018, 02:50 PM   #29
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The F30 interior was a vast improvement over the E90, and the increased proportions actually helped sales. I agree with the steering, but the demand for the manual is infinitesimal. The real reason the 3 series was special was because of the driving dynamics. The reason it's losing marketshare is that it's dated, and the driving dynamics have taken a back seat.
It's true, they need to refresh the car and not make a car like absolutely everyone else makes... when the 3, C class and A4 are identical... people have little reason to stay with a brand and instead buy based on personal preference or price. When the 3 was the dynamic favorite, it had something the others didn't, that is now out the window.
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      06-06-2018, 02:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The F30 interior was a vast improvement over the E90, and the increased proportions actually helped sales. I agree with the steering, but the demand for the manual is infinitesimal. The real reason the 3 series was special was because of the driving dynamics. The reason it's losing marketshare is that it's dated, and the driving dynamics have taken a back seat.
It's true, they need to refresh the car and not make a car like absolutely everyone else makes... when the 3, C class and A4 are identical... people have little reason to stay with a brand and instead buy based on personal preference or price. When the 3 was the dynamic favorite, it had something the others didn't, that is now out the window.
You know what will fix this? Bigger kidneys.
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      06-06-2018, 03:08 PM   #31
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You know what will fix this? Bigger kidneys.
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      06-07-2018, 10:55 PM   #32
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This graph was only from November 2017 to May 2018. Of course, the market share was exponentially increasing during that time, they were the only car to begin being delivered.

Completely misleading.

The model 3 is and has been the game changer if Tesla can start mass producing them. That's not a secret so a graph like this shouldn't come as a surprise if Tesla can hit their Model 3 production targets.

I'm a huge fan of Tesla, but real world delays and Model 3 output disappointments linger over the company. They need to hit their 5,000 vehicle/week mark and hit it without any more delays.
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      06-08-2018, 07:36 AM   #33
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I don't like Tesla but I can't help but laugh that companies like BMW, Mercedes, and Audi have spent years and years and billions of dollars to promote and compete in the compact-midsize luxury car market and Tesla comes along with poor financials, poor productivity of manufacturing, almost no real history, and outsells then all even operating at suboptimal efficiency.

What a massive, brash, and enthusiastic middle finger to the Germans.
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      06-08-2018, 12:46 PM   #34
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Tesla confirmed the sales numbers
They sourced directly via official press releases from each carmaker


Design of the 3-er is also a bit boring, to say the least
Every time i see one, it's usually non-m-sport and looks really underwhelming

I mean, what is sexy about this below? My 2008 E92 335i looked better

Last edited by AndreyATC; 06-08-2018 at 12:55 PM..
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      06-08-2018, 01:03 PM   #35
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How? Isn't Tesla way behind on production & lots of these cars have not even gotten to the buyers? If so, LOL
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      06-08-2018, 01:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Tesla confirmed the sales numbers
They sourced directly via official press releases from each carmaker
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De9WxlhUwAAj3Px.jpg[/IMG]

Design of the 3-er is also a bit boring, to say the least
Every time i see one, it's usually non-m-sport and looks really underwhelming

I mean, what is sexy about this below? My 2008 E92 335i looked better
[IMG]https://c4d709dd302a2586107d-f8305d2...2770a904d3.png[/IMG]
We could argue about the effete E92 all day, but we're not talking about that car. We're talking about this dumb looking thing.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...river_side.jpg[/IMG]

I get that the technology is cool, and it's not as horribly ugly and ungainly as the bloated Model X, but still, just look at it. Honestly, if it was just a 5/8 scale boring Model S, I'd be pushing the wife to get one. But I don't want to see that goofy thing each time I open the garage door.

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/e6...d7ff92424a.gif[/IMG]
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      06-08-2018, 01:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
We could argue about the effete E92 all day, but we're not talking about that car. We're talking about this dumb looking thing.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...river_side.jpg[/IMG]

I get that the technology is cool, and it's not as horribly ugly and ungainly as the bloated Model X, but still, just look at it. Honestly, if it was just a 5/8 scale boring Model S, I'd be pushing the wife to get one. But I don't want to see that goofy thing each time I open the garage door.

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/e6...d7ff92424a.gif[/IMG]
Seems like there are plenty of other BMW drivers who's switching
That graph is so telling...

First it was large sedan to lose sales to Model S, now it new car.
Next is Model Y to cannibalize X3 and Q5

Lastly, roadster will eat into lambos, porsches and Ferraris

Ford F-150 should start packing as well

Last edited by AndreyATC; 06-08-2018 at 01:30 PM..
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      06-08-2018, 01:26 PM   #38
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I'm not really arguing for the 3er, our lease is up and we'll likely either get an Audi or Porsche. BMW is a bit out to sea right now. But Tesla would surely benefit from a stylist once they exhaust the power of their tech alone selling their cars.
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      06-08-2018, 03:46 PM   #39
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In the wealthier zip codes of the Bay Area, The Model S is the most common car according to DMV registration records, and I'll bet the Model 3 is already second.
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      06-09-2018, 03:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
How? Isn't Tesla way behind on production & lots of these cars have not even gotten to the buyers? If so, LOL
Just like SpaceX took time and lots of failures to perfect the landing, Tesla will do the same to their manufacturing.

SpaceX is wiping the floor in the rocket industry due to their much lower production cost.

Once Tesla perfects the automated manufacturing in 1-2 years, they will be wiping the floor of any other car company who have to deal with unions and labor.

Just look how crazy it looks: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ory-in-fremont
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      06-25-2018, 07:04 PM   #41
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Model 3s being built in....tents?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...roduction-tent
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      06-26-2018, 09:11 AM   #42
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      06-26-2018, 12:17 PM   #43
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That's impressive. The model 3 doesn't look as nice as the model S to my eyes.
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      06-26-2018, 04:08 PM   #44
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That's impressive. The model 3 doesn't look as nice as the model S to my eyes.
Agreed, although a proper set of wheels transforms the Model 3 dramatically.
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