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      10-20-2017, 11:24 AM   #89
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Congrats OP! I was looking at a GT4 before getting my 991C4S. The experience in the GT4 is incredible! Ultimately I decided against it since it would be too difficult for me to drive it without making every drive into a big production: what entrance to use on the parking lots, are there speed bumps, are there any steep areas, etc. I really wanted the GT4 especially for the money but couldn't imagine enjoying it long term due to all of the constraints while driving it on the street. Now if it had front axle lift, I would be driving one right now.

Enjoy it while you have it, and enjoy it while you are selling/ trading it in for little to no loss. Depending the mileage and how it is spec'd, you may even make money on it down the line.
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      10-20-2017, 06:53 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
90K is a lot for any car but the main reason I was bringing up and considering the GT4 is because that car like the 1M does not seem to have depreciated at all. Used cars are still selling for more than MSRP. If I need to trade in and get something else, I will be able to do that without taking a big hit.

Also, I really don’t think that BMW will let the M2 CSL realize it’s full potential. Between a handicapped M2 CSL and a proper NA mid engined Porsche GT car at the same price, very few people would go for the BMW.

If the M2 CSL was priced 15K lower than the GT4 and did what the 1M did to the Cayman R, then it’s a completely different story.
LOL. Everyone over at Rennlist will tell you that the GT4 is handicapped because they really don't think that Porsche will let it reach it's full potential due to the 911

Chris Harris reviews the BMW 1M ( $46-53K) vs Porsche Cayman R ( $67K) - Over $15K between the pair..

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541960

BMW M2 -52K vs 918 Cayman 55K

BMW M2 ZL9 $62K vs 918 Cayman S $68K

BMW M2 CS $ ?? vs 918 Cayman GTS $80K

BMW M2 CSK $ ?? vs Cayman GT4 $ ??

As one can see.. while both models will be pricier as you go up the line.. the pricing of the Porsche models gets further ahead of the BMW at each position.
Even if the CS comes in at $70K... it will be 10K less than the GTS.. I FULLY expect the M2 CSL to undercut the GT4 by at least 10K. I also fully expect that the absolute performance of the 981 GT4 will likely be better than the M2 CSL (in the same way the M4 GTS didn't out perform the 911 GT3 ) and I am perfectly ok with that. I don't buy BMWs because of how they fare against a Porsche.

I buy BMWs because they are a great performance value and generally more in tune with my style of usage.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 10-20-2017 at 08:40 PM..
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      10-20-2017, 07:53 PM   #91
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They would need to take like 500-600 lbs out of the M2 for it to be ANYWHERE near the GT4...and that's just not happening for the BMW market or assembly line
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      10-20-2017, 10:07 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
I drove my M2 in the midst of a snowstorm with barely any other vehicles on the road. If this were possible in a GT4, I'd at least look into getting one and DDing it. And it's not just the initial $40-50k cost difference, people. Cost of ownership plays a huge financial role in Porsches. A simple oil change sets you back $375 in a base Cayman. I'm sure maintenance upkeep for GT car is nothing short of ridiculousness.
I would say that most people who drop the $$ to buy a $95K GT4 aren't too worried about the $275-$350 for oil changes.

The delta isn't that great when looking at cost of brakes/tires between the M2 and the C-GT4
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      10-20-2017, 10:35 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin1md View Post
I would say that most people who drop the $$ to buy a $95K GT4 aren't too worried about the $275-$350 for oil changes.

The delta isn't that great when looking at cost of brakes/tires between the M2 and the C-GT4
I don't understand...I've been watching the GT4 market since I had my GT3 and the only $95k GT4s are stripper cars without LWBS.

Most of the GT4s are still $100k+ (with relatively decent options)

These are the first four I found on Rennlist:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...i-upgrade.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...ayman-gt4.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...clear-bra.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...c-gt4-lwb.html ($100 under $100K)
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      10-21-2017, 04:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
90K is a lot for any car but the main reason I was bringing up and considering the GT4 is because that car like the 1M does not seem to have depreciated at all. Used cars are still selling for more than MSRP. If I need to trade in and get something else, I will be able to do that without taking a big hit.

Also, I really don’t think that BMW will let the M2 CSL realize it’s full potential. Between a handicapped M2 CSL and a proper NA mid engined Porsche GT car at the same price, very few people would go for the BMW.
I would not buy the BMW if it was the case...
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      10-21-2017, 04:56 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
If one is young,short and has a strong back the Cayman GT4 is perfect. If one is tall,has some back problems,has daily routes which are bumper to bumper for 1-2 hours where the clutch goes in and out every 1-3 seconds then the Cayman GT4 is not suitable as a single daily driver. Maybe a great car for the weekends though as a second car. The M2 is more practical and the GT4 is a better performance car.
Correct! As a daily the "regular" M2 is awesome...as a special weekend/track car...the GT4 is awesome. You have to compare a GT4 with a M2 CSL/GTS and that is also a car you don't want to drive everyday...
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      10-21-2017, 04:58 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin1md View Post
I would say that most people who drop the $$ to buy a $95K GT4 aren't too worried about the $275-$350 for oil changes.

The delta isn't that great when looking at cost of brakes/tires between the M2 and the C-GT4
Brakes, tyres will almost be the same...the price difference is parts and labour.
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      10-21-2017, 04:59 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
I don't understand...I've been watching the GT4 market since I had my GT3 and the only $95k GT4s are stripper cars without LWBS.

Most of the GT4s are still $100k+ (with relatively decent options)

These are the first four I found on Rennlist:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...i-upgrade.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...ayman-gt4.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...clear-bra.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...c-gt4-lwb.html ($100 under $100K)
Wait until the new GT4(RS) is available...then prices will drop... I hope they will
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      10-21-2017, 07:56 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
LOL. Everyone over at Rennlist will tell you that the GT4 is handicapped because they really don't think that Porsche will let it reach it's full potential due to the 911

Chris Harris reviews the BMW 1M ( $46-53K) vs Porsche Cayman R ( $67K) - Over $15K between the pair..

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541960

BMW M2 -52K vs 918 Cayman 55K

BMW M2 ZL9 $62K vs 918 Cayman S $68K

BMW M2 CS $ ?? vs 918 Cayman GTS $80K

BMW M2 CSK $ ?? vs Cayman GT4 $ ??

As one can see.. while both models will be pricier as you go up the line.. the pricing of the Porsche models gets further ahead of the BMW at each position.
Even if the CS comes in at $70K... it will be 10K less than the GTS.. I FULLY expect the M2 CSL to undercut the GT4 by at least 10K. I also fully expect that the absolute performance of the 981 GT4 will likely be better than the M2 CSL (in the same way the M4 GTS didn't out perform the 911 GT3 ) and I am perfectly ok with that. I don't buy BMWs because of how they fare against a Porsche.

I buy BMWs because they are a great performance value and generally more in tune with my style of usage.
The M2 CSL will not be cheap. BMW will know that people will pay a lot for that badge (probably more than the GTS badge) and charge accordingly.

I also think that the M2 CSL will be better in absolute performance when compared with the 981 GT4. We can have a bet on that. I am saying it won’t be better than the 718 GT4 which would also be out around the same time. If the price of the M2 CSL is similar to a GT4, I would expect the performance to also be comparable or better. BMW could do it but won’t to not tread on the M4 GTS which is my main pain point. If they did and the price is around the 80k mark, I will most definitely be buying one myself but somehiw I do not see that happening.

The M4 GTS is about 8K cheaper than a GT3 which is why it gets compared to that car and fails a lot.
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      10-22-2017, 10:54 AM   #99
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People lined up and paid way over MSRP for the M4GTS when it was released so they will line up and pay for the M2CS. Also I will assume it will not perform monetarily higher just like the GTS did not. Sometimes i think BMW just does it for the group that wants something no one else has or is very limited.......they will pay, and pay, and pay
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      10-22-2017, 01:46 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
I don't understand...I've been watching the GT4 market since I had my GT3 and the only $95k GT4s are stripper cars without LWBS.

Most of the GT4s are still $100k+ (with relatively decent options)

These are the first four I found on Rennlist:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...i-upgrade.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...ayman-gt4.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...clear-bra.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...c-gt4-lwb.html ($100 under $100K)
By $95K, I was referring to what most people I know paid for them when they ordered them. The mark up in the secondary mark up came later.

Because I bought a 911 GTS in the past, I've been promised (we will see what actually happens) a spot at the top of my old dealer's list for the next GT4 without any mark up.
The first gen GT4 was priced around $85K before add ons....... for most people configuring their cars, that came out to somewhere between $90-100K. Granted, you can add a lot more and have the sticker be closer to $102-105K as well.
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      10-22-2017, 01:47 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzino View Post
Brakes, tyres will almost be the same...the price difference is parts and labour.
I've owned a 997.2 GTS.........and have had a X6 50. The differences really aren't that great (once you're out of the service window of 3 years for the BMW)
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      10-22-2017, 01:52 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzino View Post
Wait until the new GT4(RS) is available...then prices will drop... I hope they will
Not likley. The GT 4 was produced in limited quantity-- 999 cars total I believe for the U.S?
I could be off on that number, but that is what I was told a year before it was released.

If the next gen GT4 is also made in limited production, I doubt either the GT4 or Spyder will go down much in value.
They are PHENOMENAL pure driving cars, and I disagree with the poster above who says that many on Rennlist talk about how Porsche is holding the GT4 back relative the 911.
That was true for a while with the base Cayman and Cayman S, but not with this car.
Plus, they are very different cars now. The newer 991's are more like GT cars c/w with the 997's and I know plenty of enthusiasts who actually prefer almost any iteration of the mid engine porsche vs the 911, myself included.

I've owned both a 987 Cayman S and a 997.2 GTS and while I loved my GTS, I think I actually had more fun in my Cayman on most days.
Granted, that's in large part due to my driving skill. I think a better, more experienced track driver would have gotten a lot more out of my GTS than I ever could have
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      10-24-2017, 07:42 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin1md View Post
Not likley. The GT 4 was produced in limited quantity-- 999 cars total I believe for the U.S?
I could be off on that number, but that is what I was told a year before it was released.
In Europe the GT4 prices are slightly coming down...don't know about the US.
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      10-24-2017, 11:12 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by M2wolf View Post
Wait for the m2 csl....
And the GT4-RS.....
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      10-26-2017, 11:02 AM   #105
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Quote:
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And the GT4-RS.....
Not sure about the GT4 RS. Will definitely be a GT4.

The whole GT4 RS rumor started based on an Australian Porsche employee's post which has already been proven wrong based on the timeline.

Then magazines like even motortrend started posting old spy shots of the 981 GT4 being tested and called it the 718 GT4 RS. I believe this is what led to everyone thinking that the next GT4 version will be an RS.

There could still be an RS but it will not be due to all the rumors we've seen so far.
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      10-26-2017, 11:04 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
Not sure about the GT4 RS. Will definitely be a GT4.

The whole GT4 RS rumor started based on an Australian Porsche employee's post which has already been proven wrong based on the timeline.

Then magazines like even motortrend started posting old spy shots of the 981 GT4 being tested and called it the 718 GT4 RS. I believe this is what led to everyone thinking that the next GT4 version will be an RS.

There could still be an RS but it will not be due to all the rumors we've seen so far.
My response was tongue in cheek for the same reason - do we know the M2 CSL isn’t a figment of the inter webs too?

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      10-26-2017, 11:08 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
My response was tongue in cheek for the same reason - do we know the M2 CSL isn’t a figment of the inter webs too?

Absolutely. The M2 CSL rumor is so far all figment of the inter webs as well, caused mainly by M3 Adjuster.
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      10-26-2017, 12:10 PM   #108
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
My response was tongue in cheek for the same reason - do we know the M2 CSL isn’t a figment of the inter webs too?

Absolutely. The M2 CSL rumor is so far all figment of the inter webs as well, caused mainly by M3 Adjuster.
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      10-27-2017, 03:13 AM   #109
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Well I just set up a meeting with local Porsche SA to talk about the new 911 Carrera T - seems like a great package and shows that P is listening to people (weight loss is marginal, but the rest is awesome).
- It has less sound deadening
- Short shifter and 7sp manual with shorter ratios
- thinner rear glass
- pse standard
- sport chrono mode selector standard
- optional lwbs
- optional rws
- rear seat delete
- pcm delete
- sport pasm
- special trim
- ptv with mech diff standard

Even in communication they say it's not for collectors but for drivers, not for garages but for back roads. I know it's marketing but it ticks all my boxes as no other car right now.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-t/

Last edited by Benef1cient; 10-27-2017 at 04:23 AM..
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      10-27-2017, 06:38 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
Well I just set up a meeting with local Porsche SA to talk about the new 911 Carrera T - seems like a great package and shows that P is listening to people (weight loss is marginal, but the rest is awesome).
- It has less sound deadening
- Short shifter and 7sp manual with shorter ratios
- thinner rear glass
- pse standard
- sport chrono mode selector standard
- optional lwbs
- optional rws
- rear seat delete
- pcm delete
- sport pasm
- special trim
- ptv with mech diff standard

Even in communication they say it's not for collectors but for drivers, not for garages but for back roads. I know it's marketing but it ticks all my boxes as no other car right now.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-t/
Definitely sounds like porsche is listening -- this may be give me pause in my quest to make the 718 GT4 my next car and perhaps reconsider.
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