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      09-27-2015, 08:30 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Which again, is a completely unsupported statement. You, IN FACT, have absolutely no idea what the M2 will bring to the table, performance wise. Period. You got called out for a completely baseless statement, and attempted to defend it with yet another.

I mean, while I'm looking forward to an M2, and it's likely the next car we'll own...

Saying, without any support, that, say, a 350 whp M235 with an LSD and a set of coilovers wouldn't/couldn't outperform it...is...well..ridiculous.

A 135 with 50 more whp, a LSD and coilovers will out lap a 1M. And that's not taking anything away from the 1M. For some reason, you think the same can't be said for the M2?

Do tell!

And please, come back with something other than "BMW engineers are superior than the aftermarket", as that's a completely irrelevant statement.

Stop making definitive performance claims about a car which has never even been tested. Sound fair?
Wow...you seem to be more of an authority than BMW. Maybe M should consult with you before unveiling the M2?

BTW...here's some prior Dinan genius for you. $47k in "upgrades" and the car is damn near exactly the same as stock performance measurements. Bravo!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-bmw-m3-review

If you think the boffins at Dinan can whip up an M235i that is better than an M2, then by all means you should put your money where your mouth is.

However, before you do, here is another gem for you. Happy reading!

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797129

Last edited by mc3456; 09-27-2015 at 08:50 PM..
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      09-27-2015, 09:00 PM   #68
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I think my point was pretty simple...

Stop making definitive statements about a car that doesn't even exist/has never been tested.

Your ridiculous assertions are not at all countered by posting an overpriced, underperforming example of a Dinan car. They have a reputation for not delivering performance/$$$. Which is not the question at hand.

But keep posting. An M2 has never been tested yet. So ANYTHING you post is just baseless speculation.

Get it yet?
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      09-27-2015, 09:02 PM   #69
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Here's a tuned 135 vs. a 1M...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618025

Why do you INSIST on asserting such a thing couldn't be possible with the M2?

Stop being an idiot. Please.

And please, don't confuse the issue. No one is saying that a 1M isn't a special car...or that the M2 won't be a special car. Or that a 135 or 235 aren't, in comparison, pretty pedestrian. What you said was, defacto, a tuned m235 couldn't outperform an M2? Really? I can't dump $10k into an M235 and out perform an M2? You're seriously trying to make that assertion with a straight face?
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      09-27-2015, 09:13 PM   #70
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To get all the same feel of an M2 out of an M235i, it's going to cost more than $10k easily. It's not just shocks/springs, but all the suspension arms/links/bushings. New wheels, tires, brakes, etc. Then factor in labor costs and the fact that you won't get your investment back on resale. This is all body work aside too.

If you already have an M235i I could understand going the mod route, but if buying new, going for the M2 is a no brainier. Will cost far less.

Hell, it cost me $4k just to add some M bits and BMW PS to my 135...
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      09-27-2015, 09:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I think my point was pretty simple...

Stop making definitive statements about a car that doesn't even exist/has never been tested.

Your ridiculous assertions are not at all countered by posting an overpriced, underperforming example of a Dinan car. They have a reputation for not delivering performance/$$$. Which is not the question at hand.

But keep posting. An M2 has never been tested yet. So ANYTHING you post is just baseless speculation.

Get it yet?
Wow...You speak as if you know that a modified M235i is better than an M2, which is utter nonsense.

You don't know sh*t either about the M2, but what has been proven repeatedly is that Dinan has a history of over-promising, under-delivering, and raping folks of their money, so on that basis, I and most other folks would rather have a real M2.

Do YOU get it yet??
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      09-27-2015, 09:27 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex
A 135 with 50 more whp, a LSD and coilovers will out lap a 1M. And that's not taking anything away from the 1M. For some reason, you think the same can't be said for the M2??
M2 is after all a tuned M235i, but you are oversimplifying. What about wider wheels and tires? What about larger brakes for increased heat capacity? What about stiffer bushings to increase feel and robustness of suspension. These things all cost money and are important if you truly want to exceed the performance of the base model.
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      09-27-2015, 09:29 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc3456 View Post
Wow...You speak as if you know that a modified M235i is better than an M2, which is utter nonsense.

You don't know sh*t either about the M2, but what has been proven repeatedly is that Dinan has a history of over-promising, under-delivering, and raping folks of their money, so on that basis, I and most other folks would rather have a real M2.

Do YOU get it yet??
Are you reading some other thread?

For the third time now, YOU are the one making a definitive statement about a car that has never even been tested, NOT me.

I was quite clear, I'd rather have an M2, no question. I tried to head off you moving the target in an attempt to save face from your asinine original comments. But alas, I see it didn't work.

Once again, do not confuse me refuting your completely unsupportable statement, with me saying M235 is a better buy, better car, etc. than an M2 will be. I said nothing of the sort. But you'll claim that I did, once again, in an attempt to back pedal from your original comment.

Oh, a tuned 135 can outperform a 1M, but a tuned 235 can't outperform an M2...because you said so?

P.S. I agree with you 100% on Dinan. If you're making this about Dinan specifically, then OK. I agree, they'll probably under deliver.
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      09-27-2015, 09:31 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
M2 is after all a tuned M235i, but you are oversimplifying. What about wider wheels and tires? What about larger brakes for increased heat capacity? What about stiffer bushings to increase feel and robustness of suspension. These things all cost money and are important if you truly want to exceed the performance of the base model.
No one said anything to the contrary. Agree 100%.

Point being...a tuned 235 can't have bigger brakes, and stiffer bushings? Of course it can.

Just another reason why his statement was asinine. My "tuning" of the 235 can involve bolting M2 parts on it, or Stoptechs.




How can anyone support his statement? Of course someone can dump enough money into a 235 to have it outperform an M2. You can't refute that. That doesn't mean a 235 is a better car, or a better buy. Or that the M2 isn't a better plattform or a superior car. That is not at issue. Stop moving the target. I'm addressing his stupid statement.
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      09-27-2015, 10:00 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
No one said anything to the contrary. Agree 100%.

Point being...a tuned 235 can't have bigger brakes, and stiffer bushings? Of course it can.

Just another reason why his statement was asinine. My "tuning" of the 235 can involve bolting M2 parts on it, or Stoptechs.




How can anyone support his statement? Of course someone can dump enough money into a 235 to have it outperform an M2. You can't refute that. That doesn't mean a 235 is a better car, or a better buy. Or that the M2 isn't a better plattform or a superior car. That is not at issue. Stop moving the target. I'm addressing his stupid statement.
Dude, you're all over the map. One minute you're talking crap about how YOU can mod an M235i to be better than a BMW engineered M2, then the next minute you're using M2 parts. I can almost hear the Bavarian engineers laughing at you right now;-)

The original post had to do with whether the Dinan M235i is better than the upcoming real M2. Obviously we'll all be waiting to see in 2 weeks, but odds are that the M2 will be a far superior product (system), and to think otherwise is pure stupidity.

Dinan has repeatedly disappointed when independently tested (instrumented tests...not the puff pieces by Autoblog dopes or Bimmerpost bloggers). If you'd rather waste your money on Dinans overpriced crap, or trying to make a better suspension with your Bilsteins and lowering springs, more power to ya. Perhaps you can throw a couple of go fast stickers on that faux M2 you're gonna build to boot. I'm sure they'd take you up over 500 horsepower!
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      09-27-2015, 10:04 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc3456 View Post
If you'd rather waste your money on Dinans overpriced crap, more power to ya.
How many times can one demonstrate that they just plain can't read? Have I not said, multiple times now, that I'm no Dinan fan?

Too caught up contemplating wheel spacers? Big decision, I know.

You did pull the trigger on the "M power E-brake handle" though! Jesus Christ...be more of a stereotypical BMW buyer.
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      09-28-2015, 10:05 PM   #77
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I'll be jumping ship as soon as I can to either an M2 (#1 on my dealers list) or an F80. I own a highly modified 2er so while yes my car will absolutely crush an M2 in a straight line, I know I'll be able to tune the M2 to a high power level also. However IMO the M2 will be a way better looking car from an aesthetic standpoint straight out the box. As simple as it sounds, thats my deciding factor. Looks.

Shameless plug

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      09-29-2015, 04:51 AM   #78
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TL;DR: M2 is better if money isnt a concern or a major decision factor. But if you are price sensitive and want to have the better bang for buck, then mod a m235i, but at the same time risk losing your warranty and potentially resale value.

Comparing apples to apples, M2 will be 10-15% better (stock versus stock m235i). So the price will obviously be at least 15% more. You can mod both versions, so moot point. No point in comparing a modded m235i to an unmodded M2, unless $$$ is a factor. In which case, you're not really comparing cars but how much money you're willing to spend in return for performance.

The OPs comparison could be flipped around and we could compare a modded 228xi with an unmodded m235i, and similarly the modded 228i would come close to or maybe even beat a stock m235i in performance given the same amount of $$$ spent. But again, that's comparing a modded car to a stock car.

I think the OP is trying to justify a comparison based on performance/$$$ spent, which is still a valid form of comparison, if we are to presume that the limiting factor in some people's decision is available funds to dedicate to this hobby.

Last edited by kanucks; 09-29-2015 at 04:57 AM..
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      10-21-2015, 12:46 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesraele
My tune is better with 439 hp and 476 ftlb torque




oh btw, I only paid 900 bucks for this STREET TUNE, and 150 for dyno afterwards..

only mods I did performance wise are full turbo back aftermarket exhaust with Hi Flo catted DP and CAI, and some aero parts.

future mods to add: intercooler, oil cooler, boost and charge pipe, wider tires... and maybe after 5-10 years, a bigger turbo.. but for now?

I FREAKIN LOVE MY m235i! and OMG she pulls!
lol if you think you're hitting 440hp on a stock turbo with just a tune and exhaust, you are delusional. Did you get a baseline dyno?
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      03-06-2016, 06:33 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrosexual
Pondering the choice of a Dinan-tuned 235i vs the stock M2... on paper the Dinan235 handily beats the M2, especially for Torque. ...the stage-1 tuned 235 is carrying nnearly 16% less weight for each ft-lb of twist available.


[IMG]
View post on imgur.com
[/IMG]

I realize I would have to throw about $7000 at the 235 to equip it with the right go-fast hardware: LSD, M Perf Brake kit, Dinan tune above, and that brings it close to the M2 price, as I understand it... correctly me if I'm worng there?

Granted, the M2 will include all the proper go-fast gear as standard equipment, it will have bragging rights, and different /possibly better aesthetics.

I also recognize that Dinan & others will have tunes for M2 eventually, probably very close to the 235 numbers, since it's basically the same N55,

So, you're back to aesthetics, the much abused M badge, a significant wait, and a small weight savings arguing for the M2, vesus have-it-now for the 235.

Amusing side note: the Ferrari 458 factors in at 5.48 lb/hp, but 8.23 lb/torque...both tunes on the 235i give you more twist-per-pound than a 458 (!)

Any thoughts?
Do you really think the M2 will only put out 365 hp?? When was the last time an M (or any BMW for that matter) put out the claimed hp figure? For example, the f80s are regularly dynoing at 420-430 WHP, which is more like 480 at the crank. Don't be surprised if the M2 is at least 400 crank hp. So even though it's about much more than straight line speed (as the last 4 pages have read), the M2 will likely still outpower the Dinan s2 M235i.

For the record, I own a Dinan s2 335i (f30), and I had it dynoed w/stage 1 at 330 WHP. Now that I've added stage 2 (+intake), I'm probably around 345-350 WHP which puts me around 390 at the crank. The Dinan puts out what it says....but I'd still take an M2 in a heartbeat.
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      03-08-2016, 03:00 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
Do you really think the M2 will only put out 365 hp?? When was the last time an M (or any BMW for that matter) put out the claimed hp figure? For example, the f80s are regularly dynoing at 420-430 WHP, which is more like 480 at the crank. Don't be surprised if the M2 is at least 400 crank hp. So even though it's about much more than straight line speed (as the last 4 pages have read), the M2 will likely still outpower the Dinan s2 M235i.
Doesn't really matter if it's 365 or 400, just like the M235i is closer to 350 than the 320 listed by BMW. The M2 will have about 40-50 hp more than the M235i which is about in line with most stage 1 tunes out there pushing an extra 3-4 psi of boost. Motor Trend and Car and Driver both have M2 0-60 in 4.2 range with manual transmission which is about 1/2 second quicker than M235i with manual, which translates into that same 40-50 hp/torque advantage.

The M2 will be an ok value once it can be had at $3-5k off MSRP in a year or 2. At full MSRP the spread is probably close to $10k similarly equipped vs. M235i at a discount of MSRP. For a daily driver with no track use I just couldn't justify that level of spread when a $500 tune will yield at least as good in the straight line and without track use I doubt I'd notice a difference at the limits as I'd never reach those limits of either cars around corners on the street.

If out the door prices were $5k apart the M2 is a no brainer, when reality of prices is factored in it becomes a little more of a head scratcher to me anyway. M2 is superior car without question in case anyone is going to get upset with my logic it's more about real world cost than which is better, as that's not in question.
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      04-20-2016, 06:02 AM   #82
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I am buying a M2 -cos it looks better.
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      04-20-2016, 08:45 AM   #83
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...Just wait until Dinan transforms the M2.
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      05-15-2016, 06:06 PM   #84
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Cool

I would not got for the Dinan, lesson learned from Subaru, I slipped rods (which equals dead engine) on my WRX 11' on Cobb stage 2, repairs cost me 11k... I now have a built engine though putting out 365 wheel lb ft and 360 wheel HP

The car is a lot different, there is significant turbo lag, which has killed the fun factor on it... Yes it will destroy a stock WRX, but who cares! if I would go back in time, I would spend those 11k on something that puts those numbers, stock.

You can never beat R&D from BMW which is worth literally millions... Just my 2 cents.

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      05-15-2016, 06:38 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrosexual
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazey82 View Post
If you are are you even considering a m235i vs an M2 then you don't deserve a M2
Have some more kool-aid... without an S-grade motor, they are basically the same car, with all the go-fast options factory- installed, plus some bodywork.
I'm glad I'm not drinking your kool-aide.
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      09-26-2017, 02:03 PM   #86
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M235i + Dinan Stage 1 = MUCH cheaper than an M2

I saw some comments in this thread about the warranty. So I did some research -- about the Dinan Stage 1 Tuner -- and confirmed that the BMW Warranty remains valid.

My dealer (Budds' BMW, Oakville, ON, Canada) confirmed that. In fact, they own the Performance shop that sells Dinan products and does the installations.

The DINANTRONICS™ Performance Tuner is a highly engineered and sophisticated piece of computer hardware and software that enhances engine performance, without negating or voiding your new car warranty coverage and without affecting long term reliability or the functionality of on-board diagnostic systems. It is also the only tuning device emissions legal in all 50 states. I *believe* this applies to other Dinan products too.

I might prefer an M2 but since it was above my budget, I bought a 2015 M235i with the M Performance Exhaust and then got the Stage 1 Tuner package. No, it's not an M2 but WOW. Maximum Power: 364 HP, 430 lb-ft of torque (at ? RPM).

This article is interesting too; of course, that calls for a lot of expensive Dinan components that modify the M235i extensively. You Should Buy A Dinan BMW M235i Instead Of The New M2
http://jalopnik.com/you-should-buy-a...-m2-1768677425

Not sure I agree with their conclusion but interesting to consider.

Last edited by Peter K_B; 09-26-2017 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: Deleted erroneous formatting
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      09-26-2017, 03:13 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter K_B View Post
I saw some comments in this thread about the warranty. So I did some research -- about the Dinan Stage 1 Tuner -- and confirmed that the BMW Warranty remains valid.

My dealer (Budds' BMW, Oakville, ON, Canada) confirmed that.
Not saying Budds is not telling the truth (I've dealt with them in the past with OK results), but you should read this thread...then maybe confirm directly with BMW Canada

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1422170
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